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IC2 or Thermal Expansion?
- Thread starter Normal321
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SilvasRuin
New Member
It's the double yields from ore. There are two other ways to get more yields, but these two can be set up sooner.
Either one requires something to power it, so you'd need an engine (either Stirling or the TE Steam engine to start with) for the Pulverizer OR Induction Smelter, or you'd need a Generator for the Macerator. Both setups require a fair amount of metal and some Redstone. The TE stuff requires Gold, but... when you need to find Redstone either way, Gold isn't going to be far behind. That considered...
The Engine + Pulverizer (or Induction Smelter) combo is cheaper to assemble than the Generator + Macerator, and in my tests, the Pulverizer will get a lot more done with your coal/charcoal than the Macerator will. Since it combines two steps, the Induction Smelter will get much more done than either of them for the same amount of fuel. The Pulverizer also has a 5% or 10% chance for each ore (except Iron) to give you an extra piece of dust for another metal. Gold can be found in Copper, Iron in Tin, Silver in Lead, etc. The Macerator does not get any bonus dust.
The catch with the Induction Smelter is that it requires Sand as a catalyst and it doesn't get the extra dust that the Pulverizer does. Instead it gets slag for smelting into "Rockwool," wool that behaves like stone where fire and explosions are concerned.
That said, you will eventually want a Macerator. It has some utility uses that the Pulverizer does not, one or two things it does better, and, unlike the Pulverizer, works really well in combination with a Rock Cutter or other Silk Touch pick. In many cases it rivals Fortune III (the enchantment does manage to beat it out for Diamonds and Coal), and it does work on Uranium and Iridium, which Fortune does not.
Either one requires something to power it, so you'd need an engine (either Stirling or the TE Steam engine to start with) for the Pulverizer OR Induction Smelter, or you'd need a Generator for the Macerator. Both setups require a fair amount of metal and some Redstone. The TE stuff requires Gold, but... when you need to find Redstone either way, Gold isn't going to be far behind. That considered...
The Engine + Pulverizer (or Induction Smelter) combo is cheaper to assemble than the Generator + Macerator, and in my tests, the Pulverizer will get a lot more done with your coal/charcoal than the Macerator will. Since it combines two steps, the Induction Smelter will get much more done than either of them for the same amount of fuel. The Pulverizer also has a 5% or 10% chance for each ore (except Iron) to give you an extra piece of dust for another metal. Gold can be found in Copper, Iron in Tin, Silver in Lead, etc. The Macerator does not get any bonus dust.
The catch with the Induction Smelter is that it requires Sand as a catalyst and it doesn't get the extra dust that the Pulverizer does. Instead it gets slag for smelting into "Rockwool," wool that behaves like stone where fire and explosions are concerned.
That said, you will eventually want a Macerator. It has some utility uses that the Pulverizer does not, one or two things it does better, and, unlike the Pulverizer, works really well in combination with a Rock Cutter or other Silk Touch pick. In many cases it rivals Fortune III (the enchantment does manage to beat it out for Diamonds and Coal), and it does work on Uranium and Iridium, which Fortune does not.
slay_mithos
New Member
Well, all the ways are valid, and not necessarily exclude each other, as each has their pros and cons.
I find that the IC2 is good for massive automation, where TE can yield 50% more, but with a lengthy process (22 minutes or so).
Induction smelter is a great one, especially when combined with a rock crusher to provide the sand too.
The beauty of this mod is that it provides you choice on how to do things, it is no longer a "if you want this, then use that", but more of a "you have X ways of doing it, choose what you prefer", and that is so refreshing, and adds so much to replay ability.
I find that the IC2 is good for massive automation, where TE can yield 50% more, but with a lengthy process (22 minutes or so).
Induction smelter is a great one, especially when combined with a rock crusher to provide the sand too.
The beauty of this mod is that it provides you choice on how to do things, it is no longer a "if you want this, then use that", but more of a "you have X ways of doing it, choose what you prefer", and that is so refreshing, and adds so much to replay ability.
How does TE take 20 minutes to double ores? It takes about, like, 10 seconds. I think you're thinking of factorization.
ShneekeyTheLost
Too Much Free Time
Why not both? They synergize pretty well.
IC2 works better as your 'active workstation', because of the electric tools you'll want to be using.
Thermal Expansion works much better as your 'refinery' which ores are automatically fed to. It produces a little bit of extra resources, and can be run rather inexpensively. It's also an extremely compact setup, and can be repeated easily.
They both have their uses, and I don't believe that they exclude each other.
IC2 works better as your 'active workstation', because of the electric tools you'll want to be using.
Thermal Expansion works much better as your 'refinery' which ores are automatically fed to. It produces a little bit of extra resources, and can be run rather inexpensively. It's also an extremely compact setup, and can be repeated easily.
They both have their uses, and I don't believe that they exclude each other.
Also another factor in favor of TE is that it plays nicer with the other mods. Right now the big balancing act for these mods is the need for power to drive the automation. Ostensibly this is to represent the energy you would put into the system. Unfortunately right now there is no single power system. We have 3 major systems with a fourth, up-and-coming, system on the horizon. Of the major power systems the two currently present in FTB are Minecraft Joules and Energy Units. MJ comes from Buildcraft and EU comes from IC2. Of the major mods in FTB that use each here's the list:
MJ - Buildcraft, Forestry, Thermal Expansion
EU - IC2
If you're going to do anything with BC or Forestry, and most people will as we're talking the awesomeness that is Buildcraft Pipes, you're going to have an MJ power setup at some point. Couple that with no MJ-to-EU converter in FTB (though you can add one) that means IC2 kinda lives on its own off to the side. Because of this I decided on my latest world to start with TE and only use IC2 for the rare things that cannot be provided by TE. That pretty much amounts to Industrial Diamonds and the tools. It is a choice I have not regretted.
For the record, the other major power system is Red Power 2. The up-and-comer is Universal Electricity. Of all the power systems out there my preference would function like Red Power 2 but have the goal of Universal Electricity. IE, RP2 is the most interesting, but the modding community needs to standardize on a single power system, which is what UE is trying to provide. Don't even get my started on the myriad of system specific power requirements (Logistics Pipes power, MFFS power, etc).
MJ - Buildcraft, Forestry, Thermal Expansion
EU - IC2
If you're going to do anything with BC or Forestry, and most people will as we're talking the awesomeness that is Buildcraft Pipes, you're going to have an MJ power setup at some point. Couple that with no MJ-to-EU converter in FTB (though you can add one) that means IC2 kinda lives on its own off to the side. Because of this I decided on my latest world to start with TE and only use IC2 for the rare things that cannot be provided by TE. That pretty much amounts to Industrial Diamonds and the tools. It is a choice I have not regretted.
For the record, the other major power system is Red Power 2. The up-and-comer is Universal Electricity. Of all the power systems out there my preference would function like Red Power 2 but have the goal of Universal Electricity. IE, RP2 is the most interesting, but the modding community needs to standardize on a single power system, which is what UE is trying to provide. Don't even get my started on the myriad of system specific power requirements (Logistics Pipes power, MFFS power, etc).
Just a side note however, MFFS can convert FE into EU and Steam can be used for both MJ (Steam Engines) and EU (Steam Turbine)
SilvasRuin
New Member
Steam isn't its own energy type else Oil, Biomas, and even Lava would be considered their own energy types. It's just an extended Engine network for MJ (and possibly some EU on the side, if you don't mind the extra cost for the conversion).
I mentioned MFFS and steam is a mechanic within the larger MJ power structure. It would have been more accurate to say I missed a mod which also uses MJ, that being Railcraft.
Nobody mentioning factorization charge as a power source? It's arguably one of the more costly ones, needing horizontal space (cannae stack solar mirrors) and metric wtftons of silver.
A note on steam, Railcraft steam engines will output MJ at a rate of 5 steam to 1 MJ and steam turbines will output 160 steam to 50 Industrialcraft Energy Units as well as 50 Universal Electricity. 4 turbines can be run off a max sized boiler, meaning for a constant fuel setup and obscene amounts of steel hooked up to a lava centrifuger for a constant low trickle of iron needed for replacement turbines, you can rival a well built nuclear plant with a much much lower chance of damage from explosions.
I sincerely hope that CovertJaguar and Eloraam collaborate on making steam turbines generate Bluetricity
Then all we gotta do is smack neptunepink upside the head (or perhaps bribe him with delishus pie) to make the switch from charge to universal electricity and away we go
Nothing against the charge system from factorization, but unlike bluelectric power, MJ, EU and UE, charge isn't well engrained in the community yet, and is not yet complete in a full range of power generation scenarios. It is impossible to run factorization equipment at all if you're playing a cave or nether challenge map unless you cheat through the bedrock at the top of the world. Also, when RP2 releases we will have 5 power systems, most of which only convert to one another with extreme losses. This is insanity for a coherent modpack.
Also @ Eloraam, Neptunepink, CovertJaguar, Modders in General and the FTB team - holy shit I never thought minecraft could ever be this good. You've been going through a lot of bullshit recently. Thank you.
A note on steam, Railcraft steam engines will output MJ at a rate of 5 steam to 1 MJ and steam turbines will output 160 steam to 50 Industrialcraft Energy Units as well as 50 Universal Electricity. 4 turbines can be run off a max sized boiler, meaning for a constant fuel setup and obscene amounts of steel hooked up to a lava centrifuger for a constant low trickle of iron needed for replacement turbines, you can rival a well built nuclear plant with a much much lower chance of damage from explosions.
I sincerely hope that CovertJaguar and Eloraam collaborate on making steam turbines generate Bluetricity
Then all we gotta do is smack neptunepink upside the head (or perhaps bribe him with delishus pie) to make the switch from charge to universal electricity and away we go Nothing against the charge system from factorization, but unlike bluelectric power, MJ, EU and UE, charge isn't well engrained in the community yet, and is not yet complete in a full range of power generation scenarios. It is impossible to run factorization equipment at all if you're playing a cave or nether challenge map unless you cheat through the bedrock at the top of the world. Also, when RP2 releases we will have 5 power systems, most of which only convert to one another with extreme losses. This is insanity for a coherent modpack.
Also @ Eloraam, Neptunepink, CovertJaguar, Modders in General and the FTB team - holy shit I never thought minecraft could ever be this good. You've been going through a lot of bullshit recently. Thank you.
SilvasRuin
New Member
I've found that in Factorization's power system, the batteries are just as if not more important than the mirrors. I never have to finish a whole circle to power the entire Factorization line... The horizontal space isn't much of an issue either as I either set it up on the roof (again, I've found I haven't needed all that many mirrors, comparatively...) or, more often, I wind up unintentionally setting up my Factorization room under an ocean and just place the mirrors along the surface of the water where they aren't getting in the way of anything anyways. Placing them high up in comparison to your Factorization room means more convenient space for stacking batteries to have all the machines run straight through the night.
Very true if you are doing everything by hand and not constantly running the factorization line.
Every furnace heater needs 5 mirrors to run constantly though, similar numbers are needed for all powered machines. I currently have plans for (and will build in a test world and share) a railcraft managed constant factorization sorting and ore processing center. It will have a separate line for each type of ore, allowing you to dump your entire load of factorizationable ore into a chest and receive any ore type you need as quickly as possible (22 mins later). This will require a lot of constant power, especially if you're inputting from an ender chest attached to a constant quarry system.
tl;dr batteries will more than make up for your power usage if you're manually managing your system and not putting large quantities of ore in. For a fully automated 24/7 running system, my goal is to have enough mirrors hooked up to enough batteries to weather all but the most evil night/rainstorm combos.
Every furnace heater needs 5 mirrors to run constantly though, similar numbers are needed for all powered machines. I currently have plans for (and will build in a test world and share) a railcraft managed constant factorization sorting and ore processing center. It will have a separate line for each type of ore, allowing you to dump your entire load of factorizationable ore into a chest and receive any ore type you need as quickly as possible (22 mins later). This will require a lot of constant power, especially if you're inputting from an ender chest attached to a constant quarry system.
tl;dr batteries will more than make up for your power usage if you're manually managing your system and not putting large quantities of ore in. For a fully automated 24/7 running system, my goal is to have enough mirrors hooked up to enough batteries to weather all but the most evil night/rainstorm combos.
factorization may come into its own once rp2 is integrated to allow for a better piping system for automation. though i'd start off with TE, and add an IC2 Compressor and Extractor once i had my quarry going. So far, i have found biomass as an ideal fuel to run quarries....and pretty much an infinite supply with tree farms.
In my current world I used mainly FZ ore processing, except GT stuff. I didn't remade auto-processing from previous world yet, so I'm stuck on manual input to mixers/crystalizers. However constantly working FZ system needs a lot of mirrors and batteries. In previous world I had about a stack of batteries and it was barely enough to survive the night, rain could stop it for long. For power I used 4 turbines with 2/3 of mirror circle each, with 2 grinder was sometimes choking. The main cost in processing system are crystallizers, it is about 13 lead and 7 iron each (assuming one heater per 4) and it can process one ore per 12 minutes. Also each ore for crystallization need it's own system of routers (5 for input, 6th as a convenience in ore extraction) and each router take 2 ender eyes and 1,5 block of iron.