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IC2 crops guide (very indepth)

Discussion in 'General FTB chat' started by Lambert2191, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. Lambert2191

    Lambert2191 New Member

    Written by: Icanhazripper
    Original post: http://tekkify.com/forum/topic/410-ic2-crops-everything-you-should-know/
    Copied here for fear of that forum going down (it is a server forum, so the chances of that are very real)

    There are several guides available on some forums. However, these guides are like snapshots of different phases of the entire process, and do not give an accurate picture. What I'm posting here is the result of over 300 hours of data collection and personal experience, plus some tips I think are useful. This doesn't mean you don't have to read up on what's already available, as they still provide good basic information.

    Disclaimer: some of the things I say will assume that you know certain basics about IC2 crops. If not, they can easily be googled. Also, this information is accurate as of present IC2 version.

    So lets start with the basics.

    Equipment
    Cropnalyzer
    2 Energy crystals, one to power cropnalyzer, one being charged. You can use a Lappack to power the cropnalyzer too, but not Lapatron crystal.
    LV array and some windmills
    MFE (to charge energy crystals)
    Electric hoe
    Recycler (to clear all the unwanted shit into scrap, which can be used as fertilizers, which is bonemeal + scrap)
    Couple crop-matrons
    Lots and lots of wood logs for cropsticks. Not like 1 stack "lots", but more like 50 stacks "lot". Yes 50 stacks of logs. You don't need to get them all to start obviously, I'm just letting you know how much wood you'll be using, it's crazy.

    ---
    Intermittent tip #1: Macerating bones will give 5 bonemeals instead of 3

    Intermittent tip #2: A fully analyzed crop will show all stats. To fully analyze a crop, use the cropnalyzer on the same seedbag over and over again. I came across a couple of players that stopped after 1 cycle and didn't know how to obtain the stats, so I thought I should add this here.

    Intermittent tip #3: You can save time by analyzing 2 seedbags at once. Place one seedbag at the top left corner. It will shift to the second slot. Place another seed bag at the top left corner. Now, click to pick up the first seed. The second seed will then shift to the second slot. Place the first seed back in the first slot to prepare it for it's 2nd analysis, then pick up the 2nd seed from the 2nd slot. Keep repeating the cycle. I know this sounds confusing, so if you get it, congratulations you will be saving hundreds of minutes analyzing new seedbags. If you don't, I don't know how else I can help you.
    ---

    Location
    Level 245 and above, swamp biome, NO EXCEPTIONS. Growing the same crop below level 240 shows a SIGNIFICANT difference in "growability" (not to be confused with growth rate). "Growability" is a complicated theory that I will discuss later.

    Basic Theory
    You start with low stats seeds, so you build a nursery to "build them up" until they are the levels you desire, then you mass plant them in fields. 3 plants I find useful: Ferru (for unlimited iron), Redwheat (for unlimited redstone), and Stickreeds (for unlimited rubber which is a good source of money income as well)

    Crop Types and Special Conditions
    http://forum.industr...d&threadID=4004
    I just need to add 1 more special condition. All crops that drop dyes (flowers and cocoa) need at least light level 14 to be planted, meaning daylight or a torch right next to it.

    Also, Redwheat grows with light levels 5-10, not "redstone level"

    Starting Crops
    Highest tier crops you can get from natural means (ie non-crossbreeding) Terrawart, Netherwart, Cocoa. Don't bother with flowers or wheat. You may also wish to use melons and pumpkins since they grow faster than terra/netherwarts, though I wouldn't recommend that, it's just wasting time.

    Placement
    The best way to place your crops in your nursery is as follow:

    OX - XO
    XO - OX
    - - W - -
    XO - OX
    OX - XO

    O is the original seed you're using to crossbreed with
    X is the double cropsticks you're going to
    W is the water, above which you can place a crop-matron or a half block to stand on

    So basically, it's 4 sub-plots of 2x2, making a single what I like to call "nursery plot".

    I know people are going to argue with this, claiming a 3x3 or 9x9 is a better use of land etc. I will unequivocally tell you now that is all wrong and this is why.

    1) Most effective use of seeds for crossbreeding. In this method, 2 seeds can crossbreed 2 crops (the 2 O's in a subsquare will crossbreed the 2 X's), giving it a 1-to-1 ratio
    2) The 8 original seeds form an "X" with you standing in the center "W". Always keep to this pattern so you don't get confused with multiple nursery plots (and believe me, you WILL have multiple nursery plots)
    3) Each plot is for one type of crop, so keeping them small reduces confusion and saves space
    4) Standing on W lets you view and more importantly reach all 16 crops without moving, because even BREATHING on your crops is going to f**kin DESTROY THEM.
    5) You can place a crop-matron on top of W and it will affect all 16 crops, the maximum range of a crop matron

    ---
    Intermittent tip #3: it is important to be able to reach all 16 crops without moving because moving WILL destroy your crops. They used to not destroy them like conventional crops, but after upgrading to 3.1.1 it changed. Your crops will be destroyed EVEN IF you crouch while moving on them, or just f**king TOUCH them, so be warned! (This gives more importance to Resistance somewhat, which will be elaborated more later)

    Intermittent tip #4: Place a glass panel (RP2 microblock. NOT COVER because cover will still allow you to walk under) 2 blocks above the crop. This will stop you from accidentally trampling on them, which give you maximum space below to interact with the crop. MUST be glass. I should take some screenshots but I'm too lazy, so ask a mod to do that or something.

    Facts About Tiers
    Many people say many things about tiers and how you can crossbreed. Here are the facts:
    Assuming you crossbreed crop A and crop B, there is a 45% chance you'll get A, 45% chance you'll get B, and 10% chance it'll be something else. So if you crossbreed 2 same plants, the chance to get the same plant again is 90%.

    What type of crop C will you get? There is a probability condition for both upside and bottomside. The range of tiers of crops you will most likely get is 1 tier above the higher tier crop and 1 tier below the lower tier crop. Meaning if you crossbreed a Tier V crop with a Tier III crop, you are most probably going to get a crop between Tier II and Tier VI (assuming this is the 10% chance of obtaining a new crop). However, this does not mean it is impossible to "jump tiers" This is very important because people keep arguing about this. I got my Aurelia (Tier VIII) by crossbreeding a netherwart and a reed (YES REED, not stickreed), a Tier V and a Tier II, which is why I was planting Aurelia waaayyy before I got my Ferru. This is just a fact tidbit though, and should not be relied for common practice, since the probability of the range I explained earlier is MUCH higher.

    [edit 21 Dec 2012] Click here for a rough guide on the fastest way to crossbreed a specific plant. Spoiler alert: it's cheating (results are gained from checking the source code)! So don't click if you want to do it yourself.


    Facts About Crossbreeding
    Crops become "ready" to crossbreed 2 stages before maturity (both original crops need to be at that stage). This means crops can crossbreed in the last 3 stages, including maturity, so you don't have to wait till when it's mature to place the double cropsticks.

    Ferru and Aurelia can still be successfully planted or crossbred even if the block under the dirt is not iron or gold ore. Having iron/gold ore does NOT increase the chance of crossbreeding ferru or aurelia, it merely allows the crop to mature. So if you see a crop that looks like the second last stage of ferru or aurelia (take a look at your texturepack or google to see what they look like), and that the crop doesn't mature in forever (coffee looks the same but has no such special conditions), then it's either ferru or aurelia. Simply place an iron ore below, then add fertilizers and hydration, and wait for 5 minutes. If it doesn't mature, replace iron ore with gold ore and repeat.

    One thing I have noticed but cannot replicate enough to confirm, is that Ferru/Aurelia in the 2nd last stage will drop seedbags only if they're on an iron/gold ore. The same crops "stuck" at their 2nd last stage without the ores will not drop seedbags when destroyed.
     
  2. Lambert2191

    Lambert2191 New Member

    ---
    Intermittent Tip #1: before the last 3 stages, avoid placing double cropsticks so you have less chance of having weeds growing. Remember, weeds not only pose a danger to your crops, they also waste your cropsticks. When a weed grows on a double cropstick, destroying the weed will switch it back to a single cropstick, which means you have to add the second cropstick again. This adds up and can be a huge annoyance when you're running out of wood (yes it happens!)

    Intermittent Tip #2: crops will drop seedbags not only when matured, but also the second last stage. I'm not sure if it affects probability and number of seedbag drops, but I usually destroy the crops before maturity for the seedbags with no problems. However, you will only get plant drops (eg iron from Ferru) when you destroy it after it has matured. Certain plants have secondary drops, and these drops will fall if you destroy OR harvest (both cases) it during the 2nd last stage. Eg normal wheat from Redwheat and reeds from Stickreed.

    Fertilizers and Hydration, "Growability, Disappearing seeds, Stats and Their Meanings, and BEST STATS combinaton

    These are very important information and are all related to one another, so the best way is to clump them all together. If you are having trouble with the disappearing crops "bug", pay attention.

    Fertilizers and hydration are important for nurseries because they make plants grow faster, saving you time. Imagine going through countless cycles and growing and regrowing, the time adds up. I recommend crop-matrons for your important nursery plots, eg Ferru and Redwheat.

    Do not use Weed-ex because they affect the crops adversely. Some have claimed that it only affects adversely if you apply more than once, but I cannot confirm that. In any case, it's not really necessary because you should be looking at your crops anyway.

    [edit
    21 Dec 2012] I cannot stress enough about DO NOT USE WEED-EX! When you use weed-ex, it enables a "flag" on the crop, and all subsequent seedbags and seedbags from crops crossbred from a flagged crop will have this "flag" as well. A flagged crop will result in lower stats when crossbred and also "pollute" your other seeds. Keep them clean.

    -----
    Intermittent Tip #1: Build an elevated platform so that you are able to see ALL your nursery plots at once. Choose a particular angle that best allows you to do that. Mine is an elevated area in the middle. This helps in spotting weeds.

    Intermittent Tip #2: Edit your texturepack and change the way weeds look. Mine is a picture of Hitler's face, but it's good to keep changing because I'm now really sick of seeing Hitlers everywhere.

    [edit
    21 Dec 2012] It is now the face of my ex.
    -----

    So what is this "growability"? Wow this is going to be a long one, let me think how I can phrase it, because I am going to need to include a lot of information, so bear with me if everything clumped together doesn't sound coherent.

    Basically, lets start with this:


    Growth
    Pro: Increases the speed at which a plant grows and recovers after being harvested
    Con: Increases the chance and speed of weeds spawning on nearby crop sticks.

    Gain
    Pro: Increases the number of items that are likely to drop when the plant is harvested:
    Con: High gain stat lowers the chance of dropping seed bags.

    Resistance
    Pro: Increases the plants resistance to being killed by nearby weeds and greatly increases the chance of dropping at least one seed bag
    Con: Plants with high resist will be much slower when crossbreeding.

    As you can see, every stat has a pro and con so do not blindly chase after 31-31-31! You will regret it! And this is what 300+ hours have taught me!

    First let me explain how the 3 stats "interact" with one another. A high growth will cause your plant to start behaving like a weed. It will turn other crops around it into weeds, even if there is no empty cropsticks and it will turn dirt blocks around it into grass. However, no fear! I have found out that it is on EXACTLY Growth 24 that crops start acting as weeds, so if your crop has growth of 23 or lower, you are safe!

    A high Gain lowers chance of dropping seed bags? Well that's why you have a decent resistance! How high? Just 5 Resistance will do! Anything higher will not affect your crop's ability to drop 1 seedbag, although it will reduce likelihood of being trampled

    Now for the official definition (icanhazripper version) of "growability". Add all 3 stats together, and lets call that number the Crop Value. For example, a crop that is 20-30-20 has a crop value of 70 (20 + 30 + 20). Now, the higher the crop value, obviously the better the quality of your crop, BUT AND THIS IS A HUGE BUT, the higher the crop value, the more hydration and nutrient is needed for it to grow!

    AND this is why there is the crop disappearing "bug"! Because the hydration and nutrient level falls below what is required for the crop value of the plant, giving it a "growability" of less than 0. This is also why you sometimes get a crop that simply refuses to grow out of its first stage unless you add fertilizers or hydration, because its growability is very close to 0. AND this is why you MUST ALWAYS grow on swamp biome, because it has the highest hydration, and thus can support the highest quality of seeds without the need for further fertilizer and hydration. This is important because as you proceed to growing vast fields of crops, you cannot afford to have to keep applying fertilizers and hydration to very single crop. You want them to be able to grow naturally.

    Which brings me to: What is then the best stats combination?

    20-31-10

    You need a Growth of as high as possible so the plant grows fast without turning it into a weed. I mentioned the number is 23, but there's no real difference between 20 and 23, so keeping it low at 20 will reduce the number of "rogue" crossbred plants ending with 24 and above Growth.

    ---
    Intermittent Tip #1: throw all seeds you get with >= 24 Growth away
    ---

    You want to max your Gain because it gives you most drops per harvest of your large fields (which is what you're working towards). By the way, you harvest by right clicking on the plant. This will give you the drops, without seedbags. This is Basic 101 but thought I should mention.

    You want to keep resistance low because it reduces the requirements of "growability", thus eliminating the need to constantly having to hydrate and fertilize your fields. What about trampling? Easy, just plant your crops on elevated rows so you will never step on them. What about dropping at least 1 seedbag? Well, once you have planted them on your field, you won't be left-clicking them for seedbags anymore! I've had no problems getting seedbags with 10 Resistance as well.

     
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  3. Lambert2191

    Lambert2191 New Member

    So what are the factors that affects growability??

    1) Hydration. This can be obtained by applying hydration cell and also from the biome. Swamp biome has the highest natural hydration, while desert has the worst.

    2) Nutrients. Only from fertilizers.

    3) Air quality. Height of at least level 245, and no blocks right next to a crop

    4) Direct view of the sky. Some people suggested that "direct view of the sky" is basically at least 8 blocks between the crop and any obstructing blocks above. This has been proven false! It is indeed a clear, direct view of the sky. However I have only tested up to 10 blocks between crop and blocks above, so it may be 20 or 30 or whatever, who knows. Safe bet is clear view to sky. Having a clear view to the sky increases growability SUBSTANTIALLY! I have high stats Stickreeds field that I started planting under my nursery levels (10 blocks below) and they do not regrow after harvesting (some regrows slowly), even though on the nursery level they grow instantly. I shifted them up and BAM! Like magic!

    5) Crop value (value of stats added together)

    ---
    Intermittent disclaimer: "crop value" and "growability" are created by me and are not official terms, so googling them will get you nothing relevant.
    ---

    Storytime:
    So how did I find out about growability? Remember there was a time when people started complaining about disappearing crops bug? Well it turned out it was because Nent installed the multiverse plugin. This is a known/documented bug, and it doesn't really make the crops disappear, you just can't see it visually. Harvesting it will let you see them again. However, right about this time was when my ferru and redwheat crops reach the point in their stats that some of them have a growability that cannot be supported by the swamp biome and height that my farm is on. This caused lots of confusion and lost hours, because I keep thinking it was due to the same bug, until I gave some seeds to a clan mate.

    Now I usually give good seeds to my clan mates, so the seeds I gave him had high stats. However, they were growing fine on my farm. When planted on his farm, which is on a DESERT (I know right?), they disappeared. Exact same stats that I have on my field does not grow on his. This gave me some possible theories with which I started working on. Remember, there is no information on this anywhere on the internet, so everything takes a while.

    I then harvested my field, and sat there waiting for them to regrow. After a while it appears that certain really high stats crops have not matured, while the lesser stats ones have long matured. This further confirmed some suspicions.

    What sealed the deal was, based on my theory, I added fertilizer and hydration on the cropstick BEFORE I plant the crop. 1 cropstick with fertilizer/hydration, 1 without. I then planted 2 crops of the EXACT same stat that I know for sure is going to disappear. Guess what, the one without fertilizer/hydration disappeared, but the one with remained and grew normally. I then destroyed the plant and plant the dropped seedbag on the same block, but first destroying the cropstick and re-adding them, thus destroying the existing nutrient and hydration values. The seedling disappeared. Further experimentation, like using crops with certain stats lower etc and confirmed my suspicion.

    ---
    Intermittent Tip #1: well this isn't really a tip since the creator of the mod dropped hints about it. Every fertilizer adds 100 nutrient level to the cropstick, and every application of hydration cell adds 100 hydration to the cropstick. If the value of each falls below 100 (ie, gets used up by the plant), you can add it again, make it above 100. However you can only add it when it's <100, so the max nutrient or hydration level is 199.

    Intermittent Tip #2: Adding fertilizers and hydration before planting the seeds will also increase the nutrient and hydration levels.

    OMGWTFIMPORTANT Guide to getting Redwheat

    I know everyone thinks it's tough as shit to get Redwheat, but it is actually really easy!

    1) Create a nursery inside a dark room (this is probably the only situation where it's ok to grow inside a room)

    2) Doors don't block light, so you have to create a corridor that leads into the room that is at least 8 blocks long. This will ensure sunlight, when entering the room, is only level 7

    3) Place redstone torches around the room. Remember, Redwheat grows at light levels 5-10 and redstone torches is 7, so there is NO need to place them EVERYWHERE.

    4) Crossbreed with just Stickreeds and Terra/Netherwart. The reasons are simple:
    a) Stickreeds grow at night.
    All flowers do not grow at night
    c) Wheat does not grow at night, so if you see a new plant appearing that looks like wheat, guess what it's redwheat!
    d) Terra/Netherwarts are Tier V while Redwheat is Tier Vi, so your probability is high.
    e) Both warts and stickreeds are obvious during the first stage of growth, so when you see them appear on your double cropsticks, you can kill them off straightaway without having to wait for it to mature.

    Note: in dark light, the default texturepack sprite of weeds look very similar to that of redwheat/wheat, which is why I really recommend modifying your texturepack.

    Fun fact: Redwheat emits redstone current, so it will light up redstone powder it is connected to. This can be somewhat useful, like tracing a line of redstone powder from one of the crops out to the open. Since Redwheat is grown indoors, you don't have to keep going back in to check if they have matured, as you can see the redstone powder light up from outside.

    Disclaimer: This guide was written for 1.2.5, things MAY have changed but I don't believe they have.
     
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  4. AztecDJ

    AztecDJ New Member

    Wow, lot of good info here. I didn't even realize the depth of IC2 crops but I have been wanting to explore the concept. Thanks for taking the time to share your findings.
     
    Lambert2191 likes this.
  5. MilConDoin

    MilConDoin New Member

    Just curious: Why wasn't this posted by Icanhazripper himself? Or did you find it at another site and only copied it here? Then please also link to that other site.
     
  6. Lambert2191

    Lambert2191 New Member

  7. jumpfight5

    jumpfight5 New Member

    :p
     
    Lambert2191 likes this.
  8. Antice

    Antice New Member

    Thanks Lambert. That is a truly good find... I gave up on the IC2 crops long ago because they were just so annoyingly confusing, and tbh... they weren't the most useful thing in the mod from the get go. hence why i didn't get motivated to actually figure them out in the first place.
     
    Lambert2191 likes this.
  9. Evil Hamster

    Evil Hamster New Member

    Nice!

    Is it possible at some point to automate, or is this a purely manual system- I'm looking specifically at the iron production.
     
  10. Lambert2191

    Lambert2191 New Member

    well this was written for a tekkit server that was running on MC 1.2.5, so who knows if golems would be able to do it or not...
     
  11. jumpfight5

    jumpfight5 New Member

    No golems, Gregtech Harvestor, for 32 eu/t!
     
  12. BeddingPlants

    BeddingPlants New Member

    Thanks for this guide, has helped me a lot! :)
     
  13. abculatter_2

    abculatter_2 New Member

    Additional note which should be added to this; IC2 fertilizer can be combined with 2 scrap to make more fertilizer.
     
  14. jumpfight5

    jumpfight5 New Member

    Lambert didn't actually write this, so there's stuff that can be added *cough* GREGTECH CROP HARVESTOR *cough*
     
  15. netmc

    netmc New Member

    Since the documentation on gregtech is rather sketchy at best, does the crop harvester only work on the crop directly in front of the machine, or can one harvester work with multiple crop blocks?
     
  16. jumpfight5

    jumpfight5 New Member

    It's the same range as the Crop Matron.
    9x9
    ...gotta wait seven seconds...before preforming this action...
     
  17. Lambert2191

    Lambert2191 New Member

    Indeed, this was written as a guide for a 1.2.5 tekkit world that does NOT have Gregtech (or EE2). So it isn't entirely complete
     
  18. Jeff Fisher

    Jeff Fisher New Member

    Can you make a video on this by chance? I guess I've become spoiled watching so many youtube tutorials for minecraft related stuff.
     
  19. DoctorOr

    DoctorOr New Member

    The actual documentation says light level 7, which is what I successfully grew them at. I have no idea if the documentation or this guide is wrong though

    I'm completely baffled about where you can get Terrawart "naturally". Because, you can't.

    A crop-matron actually services a 9x9 area, the same as a single water block hydrates farmland. There may be a reason to plant 5x5 anyways, but this isn't one of them.

    IC2 crops now only trample the same as normal vanilla crops. You may walk on them normally to no ill effect. You may not jump on them though.





    This is not true. It may be rarer without the ore, but it definitely happens.
     
  20. Lambert2191

    Lambert2191 New Member

    again just to point out.. I did NOT write this. I used to play on a large tekkit server and remembered icanhaz posted this. Honestly I've never gotten into IC2 crops so cannot confirm nor deny anything.
     

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