I know I'm probably beating a dead horse here but.. Dartcraft.

[CascadingDragon]

The way I see it, people who complain about Dartcraft probably have never played with EE2. That mod was completely overpowered, and yet, it was fun.
Dartcraft is strong, not OP. It is grindy, and it is also fun. You do not have to play with it, so why complain?

 

[Hoff]

I am my own mod config. It works out pretty well that way. If I think something ruins the game, I don't use it. If I think something is an inordinate grind, I don't do it, I bypass it, or I put it off until I can set up something ridiculous to manage it minus the soul sucking grind. I think there are enough people who have done the early-game process numerous times by now that a lot of them are happy for an opportunity to bypass some of the grind in the name of getting back up to speed quickly with the basics. I'm one of them, though I've been carrying a stone pick for an awfully long time in my new world.

The number of people who are comfortable editing configs and who see the option to adjust "balance" tuning with them are the extreme minority. Sometimes ya gotta learn to just play the game as it is instead of micro-managing every last detail. It's amazing how much more fun it can be.

I've never really understood why most/all don't just do this. I mean if simply because a mod exists in the pack you have to use it because it's so powerful you can't do anything to stop yourself; isn't that your own fault? Why should mod devs or the modpack devs need to make up for your own shortcomings?

And the server argument doesn't really mean jack either. If the server owner wants to have no dartcraft then all they need to do is disable it. Having extra mods won't stop someone from getting on the server. If you're playing SSP, same thing. Just disable it. Other than that the only thing I can see as a reason someone would want it not to be in the pack is "I don't wanna play with it so other people can't either" which, quite honestly, is the saddest and most immature possible approach to the problem.

The balance argument doesn't really hold much water either as it's not up to anyone, other than yourself, to designate what you deem acceptable as balanced and what you should use. If you are so simple minded or un-willing to do so yourself then you are submitting to the will of mod devs and pack devs and you have no right to make any demands or complaints therein.

This same old rhetoric is getting old though.

 

[Siro]

So I just soent about 20 minutes tinkering with Dartcraft with the things I already had in my relatively new FTB Unleashed SSP world and.. Wow..
With very few starting materials I now run at about 4x vanilla speed on the ground, and have made myself some tools that afaik resemble somewhat enchanted diamond tools.

The tools are pretty darn good, but look at what they do. The force axe is probably the easiest to make where the only thing you'll be putting on it at higher tiers is more sugar. Basically, it helps you get started by powering through the most tedious thing ever, chopping down trees. Treecapitator does this too, but dartcraft makes you work for it a little. Of course, once you have a tree farm set up, why use a force axe, right?

The armor is okay, but it doesn't do a lot of things that other armors will do and actually punching stuff will rapidly damage the armor.

The other tools are notable for their area modes and (once you get your upgrades high enough) fortune 4. Other than that, Tinker's construct tools tend to be better. A cobblestone hammer, for example, can be acquired very early (using cheap blocks of copper/tin for the tool forge) and made without a smeltery. It'll clear out vast areas, leaving in place more valuable ores alone that you'll want to use fortune on later. I'd go on more, but there are literally entire threads about tinker's construct tools already.

Really? I understand people have been saying this is OP for a while now, along with spoils bags and stuff. Another thing I noticed is the fact you can, in fact, wrench full diamond chests. Screw the force and ender bag, i'll take everything I need for a massive spelunking trip in one inventory space sized diamond chest, please!

Okay, you've totally missed the HUGE utility of force packs and force belts. The rod upgrades are rather good (holding=store mobs like a safari net, sight=multiple use nightvision potion, return=reset-able following link book as long as you're in the same dimension), and functionally expand your hotbar via using them from the belt via the number pad.

Force packs are AMAZING with item cards and crafting item cards. With an item card set to cobblestone in a force pack, all the cobblestone you pick up will get sucked into the force pack (which only has to be on your bar if you want to pull stuff out). With a crafting item card set to make compressed cobblestone out of cobblestone, all the cobblestone you pick up will get sucked up into the force pack and compressed! That's the point where I break out 2-3 cobblestone hammers and go nuts. You can do the same thing with ingots if one makes a fortune+smelting tinker tool or a heat/grinding force pick/power drill by having the crafting card make storage blocks out of them.

In short, derping around with force wrench'd chests as a means of extra inventory is just wasting time micromanaging something dartcraft does WAAAAY better for you (check out force pipes too). I like that I can force wrench a chest when I'm making the transition from chests to AE so that I can just pick up all the stuff and put it next to an import bus or whatever, but it's not as good a solution for spelunking.

And really, much of this is swiftly overshadowed by someone using a turtle with a quarrying program or a quarry or a laser drill.

 

[Exadi]

The tools also aren't better than the top-end TC tools or the MPS power glove.

Wait, you can get a tool that breaks 18 blocks at a time, both dirt and stone type blocks, and can have Fortune IV with TC and MPS?
You're right that MPS beats the armor most of the time though, except getting 11 nether stars from one wither thanks to the ridiculous Luck stacking is nice.

 

[Hoff]

Wait, you can get a tool that breaks 18 blocks at a time, both dirt and stone type blocks, and can have Fortune IV with TC and MPS?
You're right that MPS beats the armor most of the time though, except getting 11 nether stars from one wither thanks to the ridiculous Luck stacking is nice.

Luck is removed from armor in 1.6.

The drill can break 26 blocks per AoE hit by hitting the center block of a 3x3 after breaking one of the outside middle blocks. It is also somewhere in the realm of 20x the EU cost not to mention the hammers innate durability. The durability on top tier hammers alone could take out 4 MFSU's worth of drill power before breaking. If it's also such a hassle to have two different tool types to switch between for material then there's nothing really to be said to you. It's a matter of preference at that point. Though I would keep your hopes high if you're a tinkers fan as tier 3 of the tools has yet to be unveiled.

 

[Chrissy]

That reminds me, You can totally "Nest" Diamond chests for infinite storage capacity in one chest (havent tested limits)

 

[dwappo]

That reminds me, You can totally "Nest" Diamond chests for infinite storage capacity in one chest (havent tested limits)

O_O that would be one awesome Soryn chest.

 

[Bigpak]

I find the dartcraft wrench to be one of the most fascinating items in ftb for some reason. It just is amazing how it serializes and gives you tile entities more or less. I think that's how it works atleast o_0

 

[Hoff]

That reminds me, You can totally "Nest" Diamond chests for infinite storage capacity in one chest (havent tested limits)

You can do it with plain chests as well. This is fixed in 1.6 as well though.[DOUBLEPOST=1379560600][/DOUBLEPOST]

I find the dartcraft wrench to be one of the most fascinating items in ftb for some reason. It just is amazing how it serializes and gives you tile entities more or less. I think that's how it works atleast o_0

Correct. It's also a piece of code that should not exist. Along with the thaumic tinker wand.

 

[Mero]

I find the easiest way to deal with stuff like DC is to just not use it until I have nothing else to do. Sure I made a force pick or two but I was already siting on a couple of blocks of diamonds at the time so it's not like I didn't have diamond to make better.

It's all about controlling your impulses instead of just using the easiest way for everything.

 

[Bigpak]

You can do it with plain chests as well. This is fixed in 1.6 as well though.[DOUBLEPOST=1379560600][/DOUBLEPOST]

Correct. It's also a piece of code that should not exist. Along with the thaumic tinker wand.

Maybe it shouldn't exist for just players and whatnot but I still think it is a pretty neat and amazing tool. I hope there is like a config option to enable and disable it in the future. I personally love it and am extremely fascinated by how it works.

 

[Zenthon_127]

Aaaaand nobody here actually knows about Dartcraft's 1.6 rebalance.

Force Wrench and maybe the Tinker Wand need either a black or white list (probably whitelist for the wrench) on what they can work on. Force Wrench in 1.6 already runs on power too.

 

[Exadi]

The drill can break 26 blocks per AoE hit by hitting the center block of a 3x3 after breaking one of the outside middle blocks.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. It's a fairly uncommon situation though since the drill can break just about anything in front of it so you don't end up with those little holes.

It is also somewhere in the realm of 20x the EU cost not to mention the hammers innate durability. The durability on top tier hammers alone could take out 4 MFSU's worth of drill power before breaking.

Somehow my powersuit's generators keep it fully charged at all times for the amount of digging I do, so I don't really care about the EU cost. Worst case scenario if I dig out an entire chunk at once or something I may have to put my powersuit in a charger for a while.

If it's also such a hassle to have two different tool types to switch between for material then there's nothing really to be said to you.

There's also the fact that not every 3x3 area is the same type of material. If it's about half dirt, half stone and assuming the power drill is as slow as a TC tool (I'm not sure it's possible to beat a Speed V drill even using multiple mod slots on redstone), it will take about 4 times as long to break the same amount of blocks. Also if you want to keep a neat looking tunnel you end up having to place blocks in the center of the 3x3 so your other tool can get the other blocks without breaking stuff outside the 3x3, making it take even longer.

It's a matter of preference at that point. Though I would keep your hopes high if you're a tinkers fan as tier 3 of the tools has yet to be unveiled.

I hope there's a combination hammer/excavator. I like the fact that autosmelt and fortune actually work together on TC tools, so I might use that. I guess it depends how much Dartcraft gets nerfed.

 

[Syrinori]

The 1.5 config settings are tad bit strong yes, but once we hit 1.6 you guys wont be complaining thats for sure. The only thing that didn't get neutered was the drill. (Odd given it was the strongest tool to begin with. Fortune 4 and the speed puts hammers to complete shame. As for EU cost, can't say I ever noticed with an MPS, Basic with a solar panel, the kinectic generator and a max battery and it was never a real issue.) Even getting basic gear in dartcraft requires TONS of work. Leveling got more annoying, Requirements to make enchants got a tad bit more expensive, and you can't as easily OP enchant everything.

 

[carmont492]

To be honest, I feel the whole point of DC is to be unbalanced. I find that having the force armour is great as I don't want to be nerd poling to reach high places early game. I still carry a pick and an axe for the enchants and speed.

I don't use the engines as I prefer to save the force gems for making ingots and doubling the amount of circuits I make.

As for the OP wrench, I only use that when going to the Twilight forest with a bunch of iron chests.

It's all done to preference and choosing if you want to use it or not. At the end of the day, no one is forcing you to use it.

 

[wolfsilver00]

I really like DC, it needs a lot of balancing but adds some cool things.. besides the redundant ones obviously. I would like them to keep it but if a hard mode or at least a .cfg file could be made to teak some things.. it would be awesome.. For instance modifying the drop from power ore to just 1 and making it more rare would help and (I don't do much programming besides somethings i made for myself without cfg, so i dont really know this) making a cfg to modify that values would be rather easy (Again, i think.. Not sure at all). Also the Force ingots could have a dual recipe (Like machine muse did, detecting some other mods) to use refined iron/bronze for example, or even doing it in a 1:1 Ratio Ingot-Crystal..

But being complete sincere you can just keep doing the "Non-OP" stuff which is pretty fun.. Using the bottles to capture enemies.. making the baconator or some soul wafers.. It's pretty cool.. The mits are a little too common, but if they were harder to get, that would be awesome, as they are usefull for the "little things" that take time but do not reward properly. Also the upgradable bags are awesome, not going for the full space at once, but instead, having to upgrade it, is something i really wanted as i usually use a bag or 2 but i kind of feel im cheating there.. xD And ender tots.. I just love 'em xD

 

[zorn]

I've never really understood why most/all don't just do this. I mean if simply because a mod exists in the pack you have to use it because it's so powerful you can't do anything to stop yourself; isn't that your own fault? Why should mod devs or the modpack devs need to make up for your own shortcomings?

And the server argument doesn't really mean jack either. If the server owner wants to have no dartcraft then all they need to do is disable it. Having extra mods won't stop someone from getting on the server. If you're playing SSP, same thing. Just disable it. Other than that the only thing I can see as a reason someone would want it not to be in the pack is "I don't wanna play with it so other people can't either" which, quite honestly, is the saddest and most immature possible approach to the problem.

The balance argument doesn't really hold much water either as it's not up to anyone, other than yourself, to designate what you deem acceptable as balanced and what you should use. If you are so simple minded or un-willing to do so yourself then you are submitting to the will of mod devs and pack devs and you have no right to make any demands or complaints therein.

This same old rhetoric is getting old though.

I think the people posting these arguments think like I do: I'd like to play this fun looking mod, but like any testosterone flooded male (even an old fart like myself still has some...) I compete a bit with the other players on my server. We restart worlds and in some ways its a race. Even though we don't really compete directly, we do all like to say at times that we got to a certain item or have X power generation now, or whatever. And it is *human nature* to want to use the fastest and best option available. So toss competitiveness on top of that and what you're saying basically goes against a ton of natural instincts.

So when people want balance what they are saying is "id like to be able to push as hard as i can, even vs myself, to see how fast or efficiently I can progress in this game. Id like the mods to be relatively balanced so that I dont naturally want to use one single mod every single time".

 

[Cronos988]

I am my own mod config. It works out pretty well that way. If I think something ruins the game, I don't use it. If I think something is an inordinate grind, I don't do it, I bypass it, or I put it off until I can set up something ridiculous to manage it minus the soul sucking grind. I think there are enough people who have done the early-game process numerous times by now that a lot of them are happy for an opportunity to bypass some of the grind in the name of getting back up to speed quickly with the basics. I'm one of them, though I've been carrying a stone pick for an awfully long time in my new world.

The number of people who are comfortable editing configs and who see the option to adjust "balance" tuning with them are the extreme minority. Sometimes ya gotta learn to just play the game as it is instead of micro-managing every last detail. It's amazing how much more fun it can be.

That doesn't work in a multiplayer environment. The default pack is also the server pack. Changing the servers from default means players need to take action to alter the game, or are expecting features that aren't there. Neither is good for having a big audience for you server. Therefore, the default packs should be somewhat balanced. I don't expect immaculate balance, but if one mod completely outshines the others, then that is a flaw in the Modpack in my opinion.

 

[Hoff]

That doesn't work in a multiplayer environment. The default pack is also the server pack. Changing the servers from default means players need to take action to alter the game, or are expecting features that aren't there. Neither is good for having a big audience for you server. Therefore, the default packs should be somewhat balanced. I don't expect immaculate balance, but if one mod completely outshines the others, then that is a flaw in the Modpack in my opinion.

I would put money on the fact that more players expect Xeno's reliquary or power converters to be enabled on a server over most other mods.

Most people simply don't care about this whole balance bullshit.

 

[MigukNamja]

Balance is less important for PvP (whether active of passive) aspects than it is for other, well-written mods that get overlooked by newer players.

The MC modding community *should* care about mod inflation where new, shiny mods provide a quicker, easier route that leaves older, perhaps very well-written and fun mods, somewhat ignored. A quicker path to the end game may also result in decreased overall game experience. The closer we get to Creative, the less interesting the MC modding scene becomes.

DC effectively trivializes much of the work done in other mods and while I and many other treat it as a "LOLZ" mod, new players lacking experience with the other mods that DC overshadows don't know the difference and treat DC as "working as intended".