How would you change IC2

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Yusunoha

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with the pretty heated discussions lately about the way that IC2 exp is going I started wondering, what would others change in IC2 exp for it to be more to their ideas...
so why not create a topic about it right?

at the moment there's pretty much 2 teams, one team being the ones who like which direction IC2 exp is going, and the other group who don't like certain changes, or are expecting different kinds of changes to happen.

so, for those people who have their own ideas on which direction IC2 exp should be going, why not discuss those ideas here? now if you want to take the time to actually share your ideas, try to be as descriptive as possible instead of saying something like "they should just do blablabla" so try to actually tell what they should do, and perhaps even how they should do it.

ofcourse I'll also participate in this. one of the things people have been hoping for is a change in the crops system. crops were introduced as a late game, but they're far from that, they're actually as early game as possible. it'd be nice if there's actually a system in how you can cross-breed crops together, with addition of more types of crops. a few machines for crops would also be very nice, for example a machine that can actually harvest the crops, or a machine which you can use to copy the traits of seed bags or perhaps even a machine to automatically cross-breed crops together. IC2 might even go to a direction where you can craft certain potions with certain crops, so an alternative way to the vanilla potion system.

alot of people also don't like the new power system and some of the attributes of the old power system. it's no longer possible to push a high amount of EU through the cables, if you try to put more EU in a cable beyond what it can hold, it'll just get destroyed. your machines also still explode when you put too much power in them. it'd be nice if there's still a cable that can transfer pretty much unlimited EU without taking every diamond that you find. maybe perhaps have a cable that can take pretty much any amount of EU with not much loss, but to tap the power from it you'd have to go through several stages to step down the power before you can hook it onto machines. and like many suggested, instead of machines blowing up, they should rather have a fuse that gets destroyed. if the fuse gets destroyed you simply just plug in a new fuse and change the EU going to the machine, and the problem should be solved without any explosions.

the nano and quantum armor could also use an update IMHO. I'd rather go towards a MPS/Steve's Carts direction with the armor. there's nano armor and quantum armor which both can hold certain modules. the nano could hold something like 10 modules of the lowest tier, or 2 modules of the highest tier. like Steve's Carts the armor gets a number of module slots, and certain modules could use more slots then 1. the quantum armor would have alot more module slots, also being the only option for some of the real high end modules. you'll need to craft a machine that'll let you place modules in your armor, but it can only be done in this machine, you can't use a portable option. there is however a portable option to configure the modules. like Steve's Carts 2, it takes time for the machine to integrate the modules into the armor, but you could use certain upgrades to speed up this process, or remove/change modules from the armor. some of the modules would be the obvious ones, like speed, jump, fly, feed, night vision, power storage etcetc there would also be a module that'd allow you to see certain GUI's when you wear the armor. like with Ars Magica 2 you'd be able to move the GUI's around, or disable some of the GUI's. these GUI's would tell you things like how much power you've left in your suit, which modes you're using, how a certain module is configured to. certain modules would also change how the armor looks, for example if you start flying some sort of jetpack will appear. this would require the armor to be made in more of a 3D style rather then 2D. along with this some of the tools will also have a 3D model, like the wrench, electric wrench, drill, chainsaw, mining laser, nano saber etcetcetc now I know this isn't easy to do so, but it'd really give players more reason to try out the IC2 tools, as players often go for the more fancy looking option.

another point on which IC2 could improve on is power generation. there's already some ways to generate power, but it's mostly lower tier and the high tier nuclear power. what IC2 is missing is mid tier power. nuclear can be configured to be mid tier, but not everyone wants to take the nuclear route. IC2 can solve this by either taking some of the lower tiers and upgrade them to mid tier, make mid tier versions of their lower tier versions or add new type of generators to generate power for mid tier. I'd personally go for option 3, but this option would require you to take a certain item or liquid, and refine it through several processes to get it to a point to generate the power. with this I'd also change how the reactors work in IC2. it's just too much of an old system for me, with a very boring looking multistructure and it just doesn't interest me. there are some mods already that also take nuclear power and have very nice looking multiblock structures with them. it'd also be nice if the nuclear system in IC2 could become a bit more... simple. I never use IC2 reactors just because I've no idea what a good setup would be. I know there are some guides/topics that show you different designs done by others, but where's the fun in that?

that's just some of my ideas that I've come up with as to how IC2 exp should change. do note that these ideas are centered around my playing style, so they're most probably not in the same lines as the ideas from others. so please do not attack other people on their ideas, but rather try to go into a discussion with them as to what your ideas are.
 
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Nanolathe

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Jul 29, 2019
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New mechanics that allow you to do interesting things.

Simple (I use that term loosely) power generation and ore/block processing... and not much else, isn't cutting it these days for such a 'household-name' mod.

Where is IC2's unique item/liquid transport and storage solutions? Cans that you have to move about by hand?
Why is IC2's spin on crop (and potentially animal breeding) system languishing in obscurity and being underdeveloped?
What is IC2's take on expanding the late game use of 'god-like' technological and industrial power?
(Why is the experience of using machines and power in a 'god-like' fashion in IC2 more of a hassle than it is a freeing experience?)​

There is so much wasted potential that IC2 is not exploiting that it feels criminal.
It's a resource sink for both time and effort (and a massive one at that) for such marginal benefits.
 

MigukNamja

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From a high level, IC2 could use more content and less crafting tediousness. It needs a *reason* to the madness, and no, UU-Matter just doesn't cut it. UU-Matter is on par with NEI cheat mode. There are many better and certainly more fun and challenging ways to do what UU-matter does.

UU-matter is a means to a means. It's not a means to an *end*.

Some ideas for IC2:
  • Crops, for the exact reasons you mentioned
  • Updated Quantum/Gravi, for the exact reasons you mentioned
  • Some kind of builder, akin to the defunct Buildcraft Builder and Architect
  • Multi-block structures that look cool, like a nuclear reactor that actually *looks like* a nuclear reactor
  • Sensible and easy-to-use power system

If IC2 continues on its current path, it will continue to lose mainstream support, cross-mod support, and become more of a niche mod.

EDIT : Did some more thinking. Here's some ideas just for nuclear that I'd fine fun:

1. Make a cool-looking nuclear reactor
2. Have a cool automatic fuel rod insertion/extraction method, like an add-on "crane"
3. Allow nuclear to produce steam (rather than EU)
4. Have a cool-looking breeder reactor

I would then have a blast and have fun building my entire power production around nuclear. Just imagine a few nuclear reactors with a breeder reactor, with Railcraft/Stevecraft's carts connecting them and auto-maintaining them. Watching them being serviced would be very cool.

The output would be in steam, so I could steam pipes and use whatever mod I wanted to, including an RC boiler driving a Steam Turbine to make EU. Now *that* would be a fun power system.

Oh, and upgrade nuclear power would require UU-matter-generated stuff, so that would give incentive for UU-matter. *and* UU-matter would be easier to use and scale, which implies a power fix/simplification. Not sure why UU-matter production is power-limited per instance, requiring UU-matter production spam. That's stupid and frustrating.
 
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MigukNamja

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What is IC2's take on expanding the late game use of 'god-like' technological and industrial power?
(Why is the experience of using machines and power in a 'god-like' fashion in IC2 more of a hassle than it is a freeing experience?)

Exactly. And what do/can you do with that 'god-like' power besides the languishing Quantum/Gravi that has loooong been surpassed by MPS ? Build something from another mod ! But, UU-matter is way more hassle than a quarry, MFR laser, miner, drill, Arcane Borer, bees, etc.,. Hence, why bother with UU-matter ?

UU-matter is like a really special, shiny virtual coin that looks cool and all, but at the end of the day, it's still just a virtual currency. Virtual currency is boring. What you can *buy* with that virtual currency is far more interesting.
 

Nanolathe

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Diamonds and Enderpearls?

I mean it's not like you can make diamonds out of coal or someth... oh, wait, you can.
Well it's not like there's an entire dimension devoted to enderm... oh wait, there is.
Well at least you can't safely farm endermen for their drops and... oh wait, you can and it's easy.

Mob drops are infinite resources that you can farm even in Vanilla minecraft with absolutely no risk to yourself if you know how to build the farm.

UU matter is not worth the price by a long shot.
 

Yusunoha

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it's sad that the endgame of IC2 is basically getting as much as UU as you can... the amount of work you now have to do to get UU, and the reward for it just doesn't match up.
I refrained myself from mentioning the obvious suggestions like liquid support and item transferring systems, but that probably is something IC2 could really use right now.

at the moment there's not really a highlight that makes me want to use IC2. the ore processing is nothing new anymore, the armor and tools have been easily replaced and the power is nothing special either. the only real selling point for IC2 for me right now is the crops, and that's a real shame.
 

Nanolathe

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Low tier electric tools aren't the worst thing in the world, but I'll agree that there's no reason to use them once you get a TiCo hammer, a Wand of Excavation, DartCraft tools and a dozen other things that have a way to recharge or never break.

High Tier just isn't worth the price of admission... and that's including the addons. Basic unmodified IC2 is kinda pointless.

As for how I'd change it?

More user friendly, less punishment for mistakes, more cool late game stuff to use power on.

I mean, when was the last time you used a Terraformer?
 

Algester

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Jul 29, 2019
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make a wrench that doesnt use power yet safely removing your machines... personally... desptite ditching IC2 I should really like to bring this up... OH RIGHT PERFORMANCE OPTIMIZATION... god... my laptop cries once I add them into my world
 
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Greevir

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The only thing I could come up with for IC2...

WrG0Wiq.png
 

Nanolathe

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Jul 29, 2019
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Isn't that just a really expensive trashcan with a really insignificant chance of giving you a diamond... or dirt?
 

Nanolathe

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It even has the audacity to charge you a EU fee for the privilege of very slowly destroying 75% of the items you put into it.
Edit: sorry, 87.5%
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Lost as always
You know, I actually spent quite a bit of time pondering the OP's question. At times, while pondering, I would suddenly light up with a valid response... then realize the fallacy behind it before posting. And then I actually realized the answer:

Mu.

It means, in short, that the question is wrong. Not that it was wrong to ask the question, but that the question is something which either doesn't have a correct answer, or it was phrased in such a way that it is impossible for me to correctly answer.

You can also see Penny Arcade mention it briefly in their video here:


If you don't care about the topic itself, move to 1:12 and you'll see it.

None of us have any input into the development cycle of IC2. None of us have any means of forking it and doing their own thing. Therefore, I don't see how this discussion could generate anything productive.
 

Yusunoha

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this topic was more meant as a way for people to discuss about how they'd like to see IC2 change, instead of yelling at eachother whether they like the new IC2 or not.
I guess we can all agree on that there's alot of things IC2 can improve on, I just hoped this topic would take away some of the frustrations going around over at some other topics that are going on right now on the forum and would instead let both parties agree on things
 

MigukNamja

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Jul 29, 2019
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Indeed, yes. While nothing concrete will likely come of this post, it does show outsiders and FTB forums newcomers that we aren't just IC2 hater/whiners. There's a lot of potential in IC2.
 

kittle

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Jul 29, 2019
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my main pet peve with ic2 is the exploding machines. i work my A___ off to build my first mfsu, and then due to a mistake, or mis-click.. it blows up, or morphs into a machine block.

From a realism point of view, it make sense. but from a gameplay/fun point of view - its a really bad idea.

To fix? add something we have in the real world: A Fuse upgrade for your machines. The fuse should be CHEAP to make and once added, it prevents your machine from exploding no matter how much EU is sent. When the fuse triggers, its destroyed and the machine shuts off, and stays shut off until you turn it back on with a wrench.


Then my 2nd pet peve with ic2 is the requirement to use a wrench on the blocks, or all your hard work vanishes. Im going to guess the testers never tried working in their base with an efficiency 5 pick, or fully upgraded TiC pick.. one mis-click and your out half a stack of diamonds.

To fix? use the wrench as a quick way to move the ic2 blocks (and cables). TE already does this. You can use a pick to break the blocks, but it takes a while. But with a single right click of the wrench, the block(or cable) breaks instantly.
 
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eric167

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with the pretty heated discussions lately about the way that IC2 exp is going I started wondering, what would others change in IC2 exp for it to be more to their ideas...
so why not create a topic about it right?

ofcourse I'll also participate in this. one of the things people have been hoping for is a change in the crops system. crops were introduced as a late game, but they're far from that, they're actually as early game as possible

alot of people also don't like the new power system and some of the attributes of the old power system.
maybe perhaps have a cable that can take pretty much any amount of EU with not much loss, but to tap the power from it you'd have to go through several stages to step down the power before you can hook it onto machines.
and like many suggested, instead of machines blowing up, they should rather have a fuse that gets destroyed. if the fuse gets destroyed you simply just plug in a new fuse and change the EU going to the machine, and the problem should be solved without any explosions.

the nano and quantum armor could also use an update IMHO.

another point on which IC2 could improve on is power generation.

that's just some of my ideas that I've come up with as to how IC2 exp should change. do note that these ideas are centered around my playing style, so they're most probably not in the same lines as the ideas from others. so please do not attack other people on their ideas, but rather try to go into a discussion with them as to what your ideas are.

Crops: agreed, but its hard to attract someone w/ fancy crops when even a vanilla potato farm the size of one you get in a village is enough to let you keep a stack on you at all times.
Power transmission: you are describing a GT superconducting cable quite well.
however, by the time youre using a glass fiber cable, you probably have a setup for mass-diamonds. especially if rotarycraft and IC2 are put together in a pack.
certainly agree with the fuse idea. maybe even as a separate cable type with GUI slot for fuses or a circuit breaker, which would be resettable but have a slightly higher chance than a fuse of letting a machine blow up.
something like this.
CCC
OFO
OMO
C- main HV line
F- fuse
M- machine or even another cable.
O empy space.
 

Yusunoha

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Jul 29, 2019
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my main pet peve with ic2 is the exploding machines. i work my A___ off to build my first mfsu, and then due to a mistake, or mis-click.. it blows up, or morphs into a machine block.

From a realism point of view, it make sense. but from a gameplay/fun point of view - its a really bad idea.

To fix? add something we have in the real world: A Fuse upgrade for your machines. The fuse should be CHEAP to make and once added, it prevents your machine from exploding no matter how much EU is sent. When the fuse triggers, its destroyed and the machine shuts off, and stays shut off until you turn it back on with a wrench.


Then my 2nd pet peve with ic2 is the requirement to use a wrench on the blocks, or all your hard work vanishes. Im going to guess the testers never tried working in their base with an efficiency 5 pick, or fully upgraded TiC pick.. one mis-click and your out half a stack of diamonds.

To fix? use the wrench as a quick way to move the ic2 blocks (and cables). TE already does this. You can use a pick to break the blocks, but it takes a while. But with a single right click of the wrench, the block(or cable) breaks instantly.

or perhaps have the wrench be able to pick up machines with their contents, thus not having to worry of placing upgrades back into the machines after moving
 

EnzymeA113

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Jul 29, 2019
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Please firstly note that a lot of IC2 addons could make use of my suggestions also.

Firstly, I'd take a route like Electrodynamics and Rotarycraft and make it so that instead of using the crafting bench for cutting wires and hammering plates, you do it in the world as a physical block (plonk down an ingot on an anvil or something and give it a WHACK.) Next, I'd kill all the shitty HD textures as they look inconsistent (half the mod is HD, the other half has the same old 16x textures, and I don't think Gregtech will ever have HD textures anyway so it ends up looking like a dog's breakfast.)

Then, I'd make it so that the Hammer and Wire cutters have steel variants that don't break, or simply have a huge amount of uses. (I'd find it acceptable for a hastily made stick with a lob of iron on the end to break after a hundred uses, but not a hand forged steel one.). Gregtech can ignore this one, as it already has these.

And finally, I'd make it so that wrenches work like in Gregtech - they work on a lot of machines from a lot of mods, disable the Buildcraft recipe, and have a 100% chance of breaking the machine. And I'd also add a few more actual models for the machines, not just grey blocks with lights and buttons on one side and a hatch and warning stripes on the other- it really makes stuff kinda boring in the long run, and fools you into thinking that you can break the machines with a pick - they are measly blocks after all.

And FINALLY (2.0) , I'd like more uses for crops and a way to automate them built directly into IC2, since as they stand they are just some boring gimick that doesn't do anything related to the mod. (Maybe make it so that your first batteries are BEER batteries, which would require for Hops and barrels to be made in the early game and encourage the player to live like a hobbit or dwarf).

IC2 was my first and favourite mod, and I'd like it to stay that way, not turn into some kind of ugly mess.