How do YOU use up large amounts of energy?

[Ieldra]

A very long time ago, I read an SF novel where someone had a multi-dimensional home, with basically every new set of rooms being in a different dimension. I'm thinking of creating such a base, with power used to maintain links to several dimensions as well as those dimensions themselves where necessary. Crossing to a different dimension should never be more difficult than walking through one of two dozen preconfigured portals, and I'll have all my stuff available everywhere through AE quantum links.

As for running a one-tick RotaryCraft Extractor, 268 MW is about 50 KRF/t. A big reactor should be able to handle several of those. I never saw the need to run more than one of them though. I'd rather use my power to make instant on-demand autocrafting possible. Too bad some of the machines I need for that can't be upgraded to be fast enough.

 

[Reika]

As for running a one-tick RotaryCraft Extractor, 268 MW is about 50 KRF/t. A big reactor should be able to handle several of those.

Not anymore. 268MW is now 516kRF/t.

Plus, the magnetostatics have been nerfed two more times since I think you last played RC, both times becoming much more expensive.

 

[DrKnoz]

And why ? Reactorcraft was already op in v23(actually 23 is the Rotarycraft version going with it)...why make it factor 10 more op.Actually perhaps only like factor 3 or something because reactor cores were definitely nerfed. In V23 2 HTGRs can run a turbine, which is a bit creepy, since a real world HTGR core is typically a 100-300 mw deal, so it should be 4 or 5.

Whatever
I think all mods should fully inter-operate on equal terms.
You seem to think that your mod shouldn't. Your choice.
I play older versions because i like em better. My choice.

 

[malicious_bloke]

It just amuses me how the infrastructure you need for the tiered upgrades on the magnetostatics is the same stuff you need to make the intro machines to reactorcraft.

At the point you can think about making GW of power quite easily, RF is a pitiful afterthought you make from a tiny dynamo hooked up to the very end of your power chain.

 

[Reika]

And why ? Reactorcraft was already op in v23(actually 23 is the Rotarycraft version going with it)...why make it factor 10 more op.Actually perhaps only like factor 3 or something because reactor cores were definitely nerfed. In V23 2 HTGRs can run a turbine, which is a bit creepy, since a real world HTGR core is typically a 100-300 mw deal, so it should be 4 or 5.

Whatever
I think all mods should fully inter-operate on equal terms.
You seem to think that your mod shouldn't. Your choice.
I play older versions because i like em better. My choice.

You play old versions in which the mods are a lot more poorly balanced and then go on to complain that the mod is too overpowered. Get a shovel to bury your credibility.

 

[DrKnoz]

Making assumptions, are we?

The only thing i mentioned as op - is the HTGR.

A generic x10 increase in power ratio on the other hand - It makes every other power generation mod useless, it makes the power use of any non extreme RedstoneFlux or compatible/convertible (MJ, EU) machinery arbitrary. It makes power use as a concept mostly arbitrary.

So you exchance one type of imba for another type of imba and complain that i can't tell different types of imba apart. Rofl.
Kinda hillarious, don't you think ?
And quit blaming it on other addons. There is nothing wrong with the 1.64 techworld built.


Bottom line for me:
900MW -> 1,7 MRf/t means that a quarry uses about 265 kW of power. And that makes my skin crawl.
That is ridiculous.
I looked up the power for big open pit mining excavators - real world equivalent to a quarry.
Sure enough - 1-4 MW.
With the old conversion rate the quarry ends up at 2.65MW.

Reika - i am not on some personal vendetta against your mod design. I am just someone who has been interested in engineering as long as i remember and i have a shitload of real world numbers and personal experience stuffed in my head. And i just loved how the numbers seemed to match in older versions of rotarycraft. It just fit. The numbers and ratios made sense.

Instead of splitting hairs and twisting my words, you might aswell give a hint about your motivation to change the ratios, becase it totally violates your self declared tenet of realism. The older numbers made plain more sense.

Just as an example of the kind of nerf i would have preferred: if the turbine had been nerfed to 200 MW and the conversion ratio changed a bit. Not every turbo generator is a Gigawatt class machine. They used to be a lot smaller during most of the 20th century.
That would have been a lovely and realistic nerf.

 

[Reika]

Making assumptions, are we?

The only thing i mentioned as op - is the HTGR.

Since the version you have been using, the HTGRs have been nerfed over fifteen times, yet you complain about the new versions being too overpowered and thus refuse to update. In other words, because of the "OPness" of the new versions, you continue to use old ones...which are the only ones with the "OPness".

A generic x10 increase in power ratio on the other hand - It makes every other power generation mod useless, it makes the power use of any non extreme RedstoneFlux or compatible/convertible (MJ, EU) machinery arbitrary. It makes power use as a concept mostly arbitrary.

If you mean using RF generation sources for RC is no longer viable, this is intentional.

So you exchance one type of imba for another type of imba and complain that i can't tell different types of imba apart. Rofl.
Kinda hillarious, don't you think ?
And quit blaming it on other addons. There is nothing wrong with the 1.64 techworld built.

WTF?

Bottom line for me:
900MW -> 1,7 MRf/t means that a quarry uses about 265 kW of power. And that makes my skin crawl.
That is ridiculous.

Or you could just, you know, use the config to control their efficiency?

Instead of splitting hairs and twisting my words, you might aswell give a hint about your motivation to change the ratios, becase it totally violates your self declared tenet of realism. The older numbers made plain more sense.

No. The old one was based on MJ which is completely defunct. The new one uses fewer assumptions and is more in line with how RF is treated.

Just as an example of the kind of nerf i would have preferred: if the turbine had been nerfed to 200 MW and the conversion ratio changed a bit. Not every turbo generator is a Gigawatt class machine. They used to be a lot smaller during most of the 20th century.
That would have been a lovely and realistic nerf.

No, it would not. Most real-world turbines are on the order of 800 to 1000 MW.

 

[DrKnoz]

Since the version you have been using, the HTGRs have been nerfed over fifteen times, yet you complain about the new versions being too overpowered and thus refuse to update. In other words, because of the "OPness" of the new versions, you continue to use old ones...which are the only ones with the "OPness".

If you mean using RF generation sources for RC is no longer viable, this is intentional.

I would never claim that your changes made Rotarycraft/Reactorcraft worse. They probably balanced it reasonably well.

Yes, and it makes RF unviable, which is pointless since big reactors are boring and lame for anything above 5-10kRf and their turbines totally suck. I tried powering magnetostatics from big reactors and gave up because it's BORING and a waste of space and materials
Why nerf use of other energy sources if your own sources are the best anyways. Makes no sense. Let people go the hard way if they want to....
Im sure some lol kids on some public server abused this with ...dunno...some absurd rf generation scheme, but who cares.

Also conveniently forgetting that you are screwing EVERY other addon in the process.
Now one turbine generator can power 85 sets of mining lasers, as an example. Which is ridiculous. It devaluates power entirely.
Which does not change the internal balance of your mods, but makes endgame machines of every other mod in a pack completely nuts because their power use becomes arbitrary.

Or you could just, you know, use the config to control their efficiency?

Which is exactly what i will do - but was not aware of since the config of my current version does not have any such options. Will look into it.

No, it would not. Most real-world turbines are on the order of 800 to 1000 MW.

New power plants built by competent manufacturers. Yes.
As per my quote "They used to be a lot smaller during most of the 20th century."
In general. Nope. Not at all. As far as i am aware we have a 350MW and a 10-20MW something turbogenerator in this city. Many other cities will look similar. All those postwar plants, 60 and 70s coal fired. Usually much smaller generators.
I have a plant right next door, just one city block, 5 minutes walk. Gas fired refit of the cities original 1900 power plant. They used 4 of those tiny early 20th century turbo generators well into the 1990s. Still have one, i think. Never mattered, efficiency doesn't matter if the exhaust steam is used for heating.

 

[Type1Ninja]

I would never claim that your changes made Rotarycraft/Reactorcraft worse. They probably balanced it reasonably well.

Yes, and it makes RF unviable, which is pointless since big reactors are boring and lame for anything above 5-10kRf and their turbines totally suck. I tried powering magnetostatics from big reactors and gave up because it's BORING and a waste of space and materials
Why nerf use of other energy sources if your own sources are the best anyways. Makes no sense. Let people go the hard way if they want to....
Im sure some lol kids on some public server abused this with ...dunno...some absurd rf generation scheme, but who cares.

Also conveniently forgetting that you are screwing EVERY other addon in the process.
Now one turbine generator can power 85 sets of mining lasers, as an example. Which is ridiculous. It devaluates power entirely.
Which does not change the internal balance of your mods, but makes endgame machines of every other mod in a pack completely nuts because their power use becomes arbitrary.



Which is exactly what i will do - but was not aware of since the config of my current version does not have any such options. Will look into it.


New power plants built by competent manufacturers. Yes.
As per my quote "They used to be a lot smaller during most of the 20th century."
In general. Nope. Not at all. As far as i am aware we have a 350MW and a 10-20MW something turbogenerator in this city. Many other cities will look similar. All those postwar plants, 60 and 70s coal fired. Usually much smaller generators.
I have a plant right next door, just one city block, 5 minutes walk. Gas fired refit of the cities original 1900 power plant. They used 4 of those tiny early 20th century turbo generators well into the 1990s. Still have one, i think. Never mattered, efficiency doesn't matter if the exhaust steam is used for heating.

... I don't like RotaryCraft myself, but I also enjoy really easy progression without any grinding or risk, so take that with a grain of salt.
However, I'm going to agree with Reika here; I think that if you're using RotaryCraft alongside Thermal Expansion and expecting them to work, something is fundamentally wrong. RotaryCraft, as far as I can tell, is it's own progression; it isn't designed to "play nice" with the other mods. I don't like that, but I respect it. Any attempt to use TE alongside it is like using no-clip in Portal and expecting the game to be balanced - it won't be. It isn't designed for that - it's designed for walking. RotaryCraft is similar - you CAN use Thermal Expansion alongside it, but it breaks the mod and makes it not fun (my metaphor is a little backwards, but it makes sense).

So, if you take issue with this, either enforce some honor rules on yourself or switch entirely to TE.
And stop making comparisons to stuff we built in the 1900s. That's irrelevant, given the semi-sci-fi concepts of tech mods. I mean, it's reasonable to have a steam generator, maybe even one you build with your hands out of copper, but it is not reasonable to be able to assemble a nuclear reactor on your own, without any help from anyone ever. It isn't strictly sci-fi, but it's closer to a semi-plausible, "look what we can do" style simulation than it is to an uber-realistic demonstration of "this is technology right now, and this is exactly how it works."

 

[Ieldra]

... I don't like RotaryCraft myself, but I also enjoy really easy progression without any grinding or risk, so take that with a grain of salt.
However, I'm going to agree with Reika here; I think that if you're using RotaryCraft alongside Thermal Expansion and expecting them to work, something is fundamentally wrong. RotaryCraft, as far as I can tell, is it's own progression; it isn't designed to "play nice" with the other mods. I don't like that, but I respect it. Any attempt to use TE alongside it is like using no-clip in Portal and expecting the game to be balanced - it won't be. It isn't designed for that - it's designed for walking. RotaryCraft is similar - you CAN use Thermal Expansion alongside it, but it breaks the mod and makes it not fun (my metaphor is a little backwards, but it makes sense).

So, if you take issue with this, either enforce some honor rules on yourself or switch entirely to TE.

I think it's not that easy. The problem is that with the changed power converation rate, power exported from RoC/ReC into other mods' environments becomes ten times cheaper (for instance, 268 MW is now worth 512 KRF/t rather than 51, that's why people say the change results in OP-ness), while power imported from other mods into RoC becomes ten times more expensive. Which means that RoC increases the synergy it provides to other mods while reducing the potential for synergy provided to it by other mods. As you, I don't like that RoC doesn't play well with others, but I can accept the technical means used to proctect its power generation from outside influences, because after all RoC's power system is the core of its identity, and they don't come at the expense of other mods' influence *outside* of the RoC environment. This newest change is different, however. It results in RoC/ReC's power generation being dominant in a multi-mod environment at the expense of other mods' power generation. And it's not just TE, but the whole RF world, so your statement becomes "using any other tech mod that uses RF besides RoC/ReC results in a critical imbalance detrimental to your enjoyment of those mods". And that's what people are criticizing.

 

[KingTriaxx]

Besides, if you want to use RoC with TE, it's easier to go the other way around. Use RoC to generate TE power.

RoC occasionally makes me nostalgic for old style Gregtech, where you could swallow the kind of power it's producing and still find yourself wanting.

 

[Ieldra]

Besides, if you want to use RoC with TE, it's easier to go the other way around. Use RoC to generate TE power.

Except that you may not want that. Most mods have no problem with people just using certain parts of it, those that provide the functionality they want at the time. I'm finding, for instance, that Mekanism's ore quintupling is easier to set up than RotaryCraft's, starting from an early midgame power infrastructure, which you definitely wouldn't expect from the description of the processes. And the main reason for that is that RoC's ore quintupling can't be disconnected from RoC's power generation, since with imported power being unfeasible, you only have two options: jet fuel and nuclear power. Which means, if you want to power an extractor at a reasonable speed, you drag along the ballast of having to make jet fuel or a nuclear power plant, which more than offsets the relative ease of setting up an extractor compared to Mekanism's tier 4 ore processing system.

 

[Type1Ninja]

... your statement becomes "using any other tech mod that uses RF besides RoC/ReC results in a critical imbalance detrimental to your enjoyment of those mods". And that's what people are criticizing.

... Yeah. I guess you'd have to talk to Reika about that; that statement seems like exactly what RoC's theme is. I may be wrong, though, as again, I've never played with it.

 

[Linkero]

Except that you may not want that. Most mods have no problem with people just using certain parts of it, those that provide the functionality they want at the time. I'm finding, for instance, that Mekanism's ore quintupling is easier to set up than RotaryCraft's, starting from an early midgame power infrastructure, which you definitely wouldn't expect from the description of the processes. And the main reason for that is that RoC's ore quintupling can't be disconnected from RoC's power generation, since with imported power being unfeasible, you only have two options: jet fuel and nuclear power. Which means, if you want to power an extractor at a reasonable speed, you drag along the ballast of having to make jet fuel or a nuclear power plant, which more than offsets the relative ease of setting up an extractor compared to Mekanism's tier 4 ore processing system.

Out of curiosity, back when power systems weren't merge-able, did you carry the same opinion?

 

[Ieldra]

Out of curiosity, back when power systems weren't merge-able, did you carry the same opinion?

It wasn't an issue back then, was it? The capability of merging didn't exist. However, I do recall my endless frustration at being unable to convert power in some multi-mod environments. Because you know, in any given game, you only need one power system. Having to set up a second one - especially one as complex as RoC's - in order to do just one thing from a different mod was, and still is, endlessly frustrating. I actually agree with RoC's attempts to make power import harder to achieve in order to protect its identity, but making it economically unfeasible is an unfriendly move, especially combined with making power export so much cheaper.

 

[epidemia78]

Under the floor of my reactor/turbine room, I set up an endlessly repeating loop of certus quartz dust to crystal via 1 mekanism enrichment chamber and pulverizer powered by a tesseract just so I could hear the mechanical sound whenever I walk inside.

 

[lenscas]

I read the title more as how do you deal with to much power. and the anwser is simple to not create to much power. Instead I focus on making multiple intresting contraptions that together make enough power for my base but are way to costly to do any more then that I also tend to avoid having multiple of the same kind.

 

[Inaeo]

I read the title more as how do you deal with to much power. and the anwser is simple to not create to much power. Instead I focus on making multiple intresting contraptions that together make enough power for my base but are way to costly to do any more then that I also tend to avoid having multiple of the same kind.

Unfortunately, there are just too many ways to make gross amounts of power (most of which can be made renewable with a bit of work). Power generation becomes an exercise in ecess, and to some its a giant dick-waving contest.

I usually begin a world with an idea for a ridiculous system of some kind that will require power. After setup and debug, I can usually figure out a way to have it generate a net positive RF output as a side product running off refuse from the system itself.

I think this is why I was drawn to RoC back in my Monster days. Making power in RoC is a complex system which required several smaller, somewhat less complex systems to run. Progress wasn't a linear, "build machine x, upgrade it with material y in crafting grid, place in world until you use it to create materia z, where you upgrade it again in crafting grid.". RoC made me think about how I made power, and then how to prioritize which machines I needed to power for at the time. I used RF (Rotational Dynamos and Magnetostatics) to transport my shaft power over distances. Once the Nerfbat started hitting the Magnetostatics, I detached myself from RoC more and more, as the mod simply was too much hassle in a mixed mod environment. Maybe some day I'll do a devoted pack or playthrough...

 

[malicious_bloke]

tbh if you have access to a tesseract, it's easier to just transport the consumables for an RoC engine to the site and have the engine in-situ.

Magnetostatics are delibetately faffy and irritating, so it's best to avoid them.

 

[Reika]

It results in RoC/ReC's power generation being dominant in a multi-mod environment at the expense of other mods' power generation. And it's not just TE, but the whole RF world, so your statement becomes "using any other tech mod that uses RF besides RoC/ReC results in a critical imbalance detrimental to your enjoyment of those mods". And that's what people are criticizing.

Again, configs.

I am getting very sick of people complaining about things fixable with sixty seconds in a text editor.