Hellsing - The Battle of London (Game Thread)

[Pyure]

No, seriously, I know it's hard to say it wasn't in our favour because we won, but think about it like this:

Say fowl had wasted his power early on or died (both quite likely) there would have been a villager that we literally COULD NOT KILL until we had majority, no matter how suspicious that person got of us wolves. Also, there was a role that confirmed itself! It had two lives, and could get EVEN MORE. That's SO UNBALANCED! Say Alucard killed even just one wolf, there would be a confirmed villager for two whole days! Confirmed villagers are op AS HELL. Never mind if they can live more than one day! Also, bodyguard that kills a wolf on protection! I've ALWAYS hated them, it's just like, boop, your guy that had great cover and was trusted before is dead now. MUCH SKILL INVOLVED. Seriously, I am being completely honest here, I think it was actually skewed towards the VILLAGE but we still won. I'm not saying this to make myself look good or anything, pyure basically won us the game, that is my HONEST opinion.

Yes, I totally disagree with you. I think your reasoning is incorrect here.

Your primary argument hinges on "what if we stupidly threw away our powers in the beginning of the game" but there's virtually zero chance of that. Even if you throw away the "kill through everything" power, you had a backup: wolfkill + extra wolfkill. Yes, Integra herself is buff as shit but wolves have an array of measures to deal with it. And if they can't deal with it, they can still just get to a point in the game where Integra doesn't actually matter anymore.

Alucard can't kill any wolves ever because he has to actually identify one. This is always true of mercenary rules, and its why they're not OP: you can't kill who you can't identify. The only way this works in the wolves favor is if Alucard blindly shoots and manages to hit a wolf.

If you run this game 20 times without any changes other than RNG players-to-teams, wolves will win 15 of those games. Hands down. If Vikestep and Shazam are in the wolfteam each time, they might not lose any games at all.

(Maxwell will win maybe one of those games for what its worth)

 

[goreae]

There's also the wolf role that can kill itself to instantly kill alucard regardless of how many lives the guy has. So if that guy survives to the point when it's basically alucard and the wolves, alucard becomes entirely pointless.

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

Yes, I totally disagree with you. I think your reasoning is incorrect here.

Your primary argument hinges on "what if we stupidly threw away our powers in the beginning of the game" but there's virtually zero chance of that. Even if you throw away the "kill through everything" power, you had a backup: wolfkill + extra wolfkill. Yes, Integra herself is buff as shit but wolves have an array of measures to deal with it. And if they can't deal with it, they can still just get to a point in the game where Integra doesn't actually matter anymore.

Alucard can't kill any wolves ever because he has to actually identify one. This is always true of mercenary rules, and its why they're not OP: you can't kill who you can't identify. The only way this works in the wolves favor is if Alucard blindly shoots and manages to hit a wolf.

If you run this game 20 times without any changes other than RNG players-to-teams, wolves will win 15 of those games. Hands down. If Vikestep and Shazam are in the wolfteam each time, they might not lose any games at all.

(Maxwell will win maybe one of those games for what its worth)

FOWL DID WASTE HIS POWER.

 

[Pyure]

FOWL DID WASTE HIS POWER.

You mean on me? Dude, that was the second-last day of the game. After that point wolves actually outnumbered the village. That does not qualify as "in the beginning of the game" in any way or form.

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

You mean on me? Dude, that was the second-last day of the game. After that point wolves actually outnumbered the village. That does not qualify as "in the beginning of the game" in any way or form.

That's besides the point. You said he WOULDN'T waste it. He did. The fact that he did it late in the game was just down to chance.

 

[Pyure]

That's besides the point. You said he WOULDN'T waste it. He did. The fact that he did it late in the game was just down to chance.

Dude, read what I said and don't misquote me plz.

Your primary argument hinges on "what if we stupidly threw away our powers in the beginning of the game" but there's virtually zero chance of that

I mean exactly, precisely that. There is a high chance that a player will use his power like fowltief did, late in the game when it no longer matters. But there is a very low chance a player will use his power the way you're describing. Its not down to chance. Its down to the fact that the wolves are a team, and 99% of the time they'll discuss wtf they're doing.

Look, I'm guessing that fowltief, AT SOME POINT, said "Guys, should I shred Pyure?" and someone else on the team probably said "go for it" or "nope don't". If he had said that on D1, what would MOST TEAMS say to him at that point?

Given a random distribution, you're probably going to have at least ONE NON-MORON on the team who says "no that's probably not a great idea dude."

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

Dude, read what I said and don't misquote me plz.


I mean exactly, precisely that. There is a high chance that a player will use his power like fowltief did, late in the game when it no longer matters. But there is a very low chance a player will use his power the way you're describing. Its not down to chance. Its down to the fact that the wolves are a team, and 99% of the time they'll discuss wtf they're doing.

Look, I'm guessing that fowltief, AT SOME POINT, said "Guys, should I shred Pyure?" and someone else on the team probably said "go for it" or "nope don't". If he had said that on D1, what would MOST TEAMS say to him at that point?

Given a random distribution, you're probably going to have at least ONE NON-MORON on the team who says "no that's probably not a great idea dude."

I SAID DON'T DO IT. HE DID IT.

 

[Pyure]

I SAID DON'T DO IT. HE DID IT.

1) Did anyone else give him the thumbs up to gank me?
2) He (a NEW PLAYER) still waited several days to even ask dude.

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

1) Did anyone else give him the thumbs up to gank me?
2) He (a NEW PLAYER) still waited several days to even ask dude.

1. Not sure
2. He's really not new.

 

[fowltief]

I didn't want to use it until we had gotten a confirmed target. I only used it at the point based on the info we had at the time. I may not have had another chance after that. If pyure was not the millennium target and crusade held off a day there's was a chance everyone would of wagoned on me. Which was what was going on in my head. Someone else 37 also said it seemed like the best option. You never said anything during the conversation when I was considering it and I chose to use it during the final hours of that day. And gave me no reason to stop me.



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[Pyure]

1. Not sure

That's cool, I can answer that one for you. SO37 said "Better now than never". Any other questions or concerns?

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

That's cool, I can answer that one for you. SO37 said "Better now than never". Any other questions or concerns?

Why you gotta be so ruude? Don't you know we human tooo?

 

[Pyure]

Why you gotta be so ruude? Don't you know we human tooo?

The important thing is that you can unleash all your kill aggression on me in the next game. SPOILER: I don't plan to kill anyone on N1

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

I didn't want to use it until we had gotten a confirmed target. I only used it at the point based on the info we had at the time. I may not have had another chance after that. If pyure was not the millennium target and crusade held off a day there's was a chance everyone would of wagoned on me. Which was what was going on in my head. Someone else 37 also said it seemed like the best option. You never said anything during the conversation when I was considering it and I chose to use it during the final hours of that day. And gave me no reason to stop me.



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I said we would need it to stop Integra. Read the convo biatch.

 

[fowltief]

I said we would need it to stop Integra. Read the convo biatch.

Thats the thing.. i did.
6:14 -Cheese- Vote pyure
6:22 pm fowltief- Want to use my power to make sure he dies?
6:39 pm someone else- Might be worth it
7:50 pm fowltief- i'm not 100% convinced..
8:59pm someone else -I still think it's worth a shot.
4:51am -Sgbros- Pyure seems too talky
8:57am -fowltief- alright, Rip Pyure
1:00pm -fowltief -i have a bad feeling...
2:18pm -Cheese -Fowl, I'm gonna make a completely fake convo with you
2:59 pm -fowltief - Roger
3:34pm - RJS-Is this power usage Fowl?
3:47pm fowltief- it is
3:47pm Cheese- no don't do it.
3:49pm fowltief- you have a better reason not to make sure pyure is dead speak now
4:00pm cut off time
4:06 pm cheese - We sort of need it to kill the two life person

i omitted some parts but thats pretty much it.. i can't read your mind cheese. you had more then enough time to stop me.

 

[Pyure]

That's a great wolf convo guys, good job

I've been in a few where there's almost no discussion at all, kinda sad

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

That's a great wolf convo guys, good job

I've been in a few where there's almost no discussion at all, kinda sad

Literally about half of the convo was me swearing at them to vote for RealKC because they didn't seem to understand what us controlling the lynch meantdo you want to see it?

Also, fowl, I MAY have posted my second reply 4 minutes before day end, but you did see my first reply, and you could clearly see that it was VERY clear, whereas the DIRECT quote from someone else is:
'Might be worth it'.

 

[fowltief]

Literally about half of the convo was me swearing at them to vote for RealKC because they didn't seem to understand what us controlling the lynch meantdo you want to see it?

Also, fowl, I MAY have posted my second reply 4 minutes before day end, but you did see my first reply, and you could clearly see that it was VERY clear, whereas the DIRECT quote from someone else is:
'Might be worth it'.

not sure how you define worth.. but with all the info we knew i went and made a decision.
Someone else didn't stop me after i bolded text
sgbros nor spawnx didn't say anything.

I went with what i know and what i felt should be done.

Call it a waste if you want.. i think i made the right call.. and we did win after all. we got her lynched instead of killed by us. it just didn't go the way we thought.

 

[Pyure]

Call it a waste if you want.. i think i made the right call.. and we did win after all. we got her lynched instead of killed by us. it just didn't go the way we thought.

It was a good call at the time you did it. I probably would have done the same myself. In fact, I basically did do it myself: the game was nearly over, and I kinda wanted to hold onto my power one more day, but it was "now or never" time.

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

not sure how you define worth.. but with all the info we knew i went and made a decision.
Someone else didn't stop me after i bolded text
sgbros nor spawnx didn't say anything.

I went with what i know and what i felt should be done.

Call it a waste if you want.. i think i made the right call.. and we did win after all. we got her lynched instead of killed by us. it just didn't go the way we thought.

Her?