Hardmode playthrough

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San

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Jul 29, 2019
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As an added challenge I am playing mindcrack using renewable resources only. This conduct will hopefully push my ingenuity in my upward climb towards the endgame. Now, as you know most of the resources in mindcrack are fully renewable, but starting from the ground up limits what I can and cannot do.

1.) I cannot mine. This is the biggest one. Stone is okay, but there is no way to make ore blocks from scratch. Copper ore, iron ore, diamond ore are all disallowed.
2.) I cannot obtain normally renewable resources from chests. Adventuring in an underground mine shaft would be cool and all, but since the contents of those chests is dependant on the seed and is only created once along with the map they are considered non-renewable.
3.) I cannot use bees. The bees themselves are renewable, but must be harvested from hives which are specific to the map and unable to be reproduced.
4.) Any non-renewable resources that I mistakenly come accross must be disposed of.

*What I am allowed to do:
1.) I am allowed to consume renewable resources before I have the means to produce them on my own. Lava, dirt, etc are all fair game. Otherwise I'd be stuck at square one looking for a lava flow that happens to run into a water flow just to collect cobble.

*Strategy:
First of all I'm going to acquire villagers. This will open up redstone, iron and glowstone. Then, my plan hinges on the infused stone because I want to transmute iron or gold from zombie pigmen into copper and tin. That requires a shard. After that I can start making machines and it's all downhill from there. Eventually once I get an implosion compressor I can travel to the twilight forest and obtain an uncrafting table. The uncrafting table will allow me to get diamonds without having to go through the implosion compressor, but I have to get there first. I also might get lucky and get an early diamond from a scrap box or something. Who knows.

Goals:
1.)Obtain villagers. [Check!]
2.)Develop infrastructure for villagers (Trading, iron golem farm)
3.)Use iron for a cauldron and equipment [Check!]
4.)Go to the nether and get useful nether junk [Check!]
5.)Begin transmuting iron into tin and copper for machines

Banned item list:
1.) All of the ores

2.) Quarts crystals

3.) Silverwood trees and products (since the saplings drop in a manner that yeilds negative proffit there's technically a fixed amount of silverwood. The only way to obtain more once you run out of saplings is to generate new chunks.)

4.) Cobwebs

5.) Dead bushes

6.) Obsidian totems (no aura manipulation for me)

7.) All standard mob spawners

8.) Lilly pads

9.) End stone (Endstone dust is OK though)

10.) Bee hives

11.) Amber bearing stone

12.) Oil

13.) Red rock

14.) Marble

15.) Cracked sand

16.) Lapis Lazuli (Lazurite dust is okay)

17.) Cinder Pearl

18.) Shimmer Leaf

19.) Anything that requires something from the above list
[/spoler]
 

netmc

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Jul 29, 2019
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There are no other ways to get bees that I am aware of. I don't think the beekeeper villagers sell them, although they will buy princesses from time to time.

Bees have been on the recyclable list. You can use the princesses constantly since they are never consumed and you get a new one every time a queen dies. So not renewable, but infinitely recyclable. Since you are using only renewable source materials, you should be able to breed bees. Without them you will not be able to have access to many items in the game.

Hopefully, you are playing with GT. It will give you access to many materials in a round-a-bout way. Since you mention an implosion compressor, I assume you are. The only big item that isn't available from a renewable source is nikolite. So you won't be able to make many of the tier 2 RP2 items. Also, no marble, although you can get basalt very, very slowly from a thermopile (which you can't build without nikolite).

I would recommend getting a scrapbox generator up and running as soon as you can. It will be the only way you get get some of the materials you will need.

Edit - Also, no xycraft for you either.
 

San

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Jul 29, 2019
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I would recommend getting a scrapbox generator up and running as soon as you can. It will be the only way you get get some of the materials you will need.
Yeah, the recycler is my first stretch goal. After that is some method of automating it, which will be a pain. As you said RP2 is out. So are routers pretty much since the item filter and the machine filter require matrix programmers, a non-renewable resource found only in chests.

I know that bees are okay to use, my only question is if the hives themselves are okay. The source of hives that I thought would work was the swarmer, which does not produce real bee hives unfortunately. "The Swarmer creates Swarm Hives rarely, in a large radius around the Alveary. These hives look similar to wild Beehives, but are dark brown."
http://ftbwiki.org/Swarmer
 

Enigmius1

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Jul 29, 2019
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I don't really know what to tell you about infused ore, aside from saying that if you follow the trend in the other aspects of your plan it would be a no-go. Overcharged nodes can only be created when two nodes merge, and it is not a predictable outcome (sometimes instead of overcharged you get a node that is low on aura.) The overcharged node will only persist as an overcharged node if there are no other nodes close enough for it to discharge the excess aura to. For the time the overcharged node persists, there is only a very small chance that it will convert normal stone into an infused ore, and even then there's only an extremely small chance it will convert stone that is accessible to you given your "no mining" rule.

Or in other words, you could have a normal sized world that never sees a stone -> infused ore conversion because there are so many "only if" and "only sometimes" involved in the equation. I'm sure you can decide for yourself if that qualifies as "good enough to call it renewable".
 

Exasperation

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Jul 29, 2019
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Some corrections/additions/suggestions:
Nikolite has a uu-matter recipe. 4 uum -> 12 nikolite dust.
Basalt can be made via minium stone as well as the other methods listed. 6 cobble -> 1 basalt cobble.
You can get some types of bees without breaking hives by raiding apiaries in villages. If your only problem with using bees is that hives are non-renewable (and so breaking them is forbidden), this would let you do some beekeeping (although I don't believe you can get all the types this way - most significantly I think rocky, embittered, water, and ender would still be inaccessable, cutting you off from a lot of useful branches). This might fall into the same category as raiding chests, though.
Lily pads also have a uum recipe. 6 uum -> 32 lily pads.
End stone can be made via Xeno's Reliquary; you need a tome of alkahest, which I believe is made entirely from renewable items. 1 end stone + 1 redstone + tome of alkahest -> 17 end stone.
The minium stone is another way to get diamonds without an implosion compressor.

As a side note, these rules would be a lot less restrictive in 1.5.x, due to this:
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/ic2-is-slowly-dying-out.20398/page-18#post-250387
 

Neirin

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Jul 29, 2019
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Infused stone is indeed renewable, however, it renews at such a rate that you will never get any practical use out of it, particularly since any infused stone that does get created will almost certainly be below ground where you can't mine to it. If you had a mystcraft void age where you only had smooth stone and a bunch of crystal clusters you might realistically be able to harvest some. Of course, from my perspective, if you're using mystcraft everything is renewable because you can make as many new dimensions as you like.

Rather than transmuting with a wand, though, might I suggest using a minium stone? Gold from killing pigmen, iron from grinding zombies or an iron golem farm if you're ambitious. Shards of minium and smooth stone are obviously fairly easy to get in a renewable fashion under your rules.

Also, the Alkahest/Tome of Alkahest make a large number of resources renewable.

Lilypads can be made with UU, as well as spread by bees (if you can manage to find a villager that will sell bees).

Don't forget that Copper and Tin can be gotten readily from centrifuging lava.
 

San

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Jul 29, 2019
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Since UU mater recipes are supposed to be a secret until you get UU mater I am going to qualify items that require it as non-renewable.

Scrapboxes on the other hand are easily produced en masse, and their function is meant to be revealed to the player from the start.

I'm playing standard mindcrack V 8.2.0, so no EE3, no Xeno's Reliquary.

Right now I am running an experiment to try and capture on camera the conversion of stone into infused ore. This will settle things once and for all, and it's kinda neat since it hasn't been done before. The conditions are indeed kind of hard to replicate artificially, but there are many instances where this can happen naturally and without any player intervention at all. When two altars are generated next to each other the large dark nodes almost always merge, creating a massive wisp factory. I've seen silverwood trees generate close enough to merge too. The resulting node isn't as big as the dark altar situation, but it's still pretty cool (I have screenshots :p).

I did not know that lava can turn into basalt if exposed to snow. Thanks for that info.
 

hotblack desiato

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Jul 29, 2019
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but then it needs to be a renewable lava source. means: melt a cobblestone block from the igneous extruder. oops, netherrack and netherbrick aren't renewable, unless someone uses weird magic and transmutates it in... but there is still the vanilla cobblestone-gen. not as handy, but it works...
or the MFR lava generator. makes lava out of energy.

the biggest thing is that he does not disallow the minium stone. transmutating everything from cobble isn't really hard.

by the way, MFR added (in the 1.5.1 version) a deep mining drill. supply it with tons of energy, and it will drill most of the ores out of bedrock. technically it's a renewable source, because it does not deplete.

my suggestion for your set of rules:

only renewable ressources (cobble and derivates (gravel, stone, sand, glass) only from cobblegens)
no mining (that includes even cobble and dirt)
no chests from dungeons and so (this includes the twilight forest towers)
no stealing from villagers
no mob spawners (naturally or soulshards), vanilla mobtraps allowed.
no transmutating things (this tome of alkahest or so and the minium stone, aswell as the philosophers stone).
no lava (unless made from renewable resources)

extra-rules (makes things even harder, although those are renewables):

no bee breeding
no tree breeding
no IC2 crops (iron and redstone plants in special)
no villager breeding ;)
no quest ram
don't use the blacksmiths furnace
don't use the apiarists bees
EDIT: no scrap boxes


I guess, you can try it this way. gather iron from monsters, produce a large amount of plants (wheat and so) and trade a lot with the villagers. get enough materials to get a tree farm (like the one of MFR) for your power supply, a lava generator, a pulverizer and an ind. centrifuge + ind. electrolyzer so you can process that stuff.

the centrifuge makes tin, copper, electrum (gold and silver) and tungsten
the electrolyzer can be uses to make iron out of obsidian

the MFR tree farm should be operated with rubber trees in order to get rubber wood (nice stuff when centrifuges, gives carbon cells) and the tree farm gives sludge, that can be cooked into dirt, sand, soulsand, cracked sand and a few other nice things.

centrifuging dirt opens clay and electrolyzed derivates, including aluminium.

what you will never get: titanium, so everything that needs a highly advanced machinecasing is just unobtainable. this includes the matter fabricator.

EDIT: by the way, the MFR treefarm requires 9 blocks of dirt above it. since prohibiting mining includes that you can't punch holes in the ground, you need 3x3x1 cave roof, where you can install your treefarm.
 

wolfsilver00

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Jul 29, 2019
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A little correction, IF you cannot use silverwood, then you cannot use ANY other wood. Why? because they work with probability.

yeah, the odds of getting a sapling from a silverwood are lower than a normal tree, But if no sapling drops from the trees in your spawn chunk, you shouldn't use any more wood because you would need to create more chunks. So, i think you should unban silverwood or ban everywood and basically, don't play the game. If a tree doesn't have a 100% probability of dropping, it's not a fully renewable resource, but a probability one, and as such, every probability should be banned. (For example, infused ore works in a similar way, higher the aura, higher the chance to turn SMOOTH stone into infused ore)

I like how you decided to play, but something you SHOULD ban is tnt/glass, it needs sand which is not renewable. Also, no arrows, because of flint.

And finishing: If you play with EE3, then you can get things easily :)
 

Neirin

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Jul 29, 2019
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People have tested the infused stone generation. It requires the aura to be overcharged by 100 (good luck finding a naturally occurring node overcharged that much) and new infused stone blocks will only spawn by replacing a smooth stone block next to an already existing infused stone block. I had actually forgotten this requirement, so my previous suggestion of a void age wouldn't actually work. If these criteria are met it will take an average of ~16 days (real time, not minecraft days) to spawn 1 infused stone of the same type as the seed block. Now, that's per-block, so if you have 64 infused stone, you'll average 1 new infused stone every 6 hours.

Sources:FTB thread, TC3 thread (jumped ahead to relevant page)

EDIT: upon further review, the FTB thread suggests that overcharging due to nodes merging doesn't work at all. Not even for renewing dull stone.
 

San

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Jul 29, 2019
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People have tested the infused stone generation. It requires the aura to be overcharged by 100 (good luck finding a naturally occurring node overcharged that much) and new infused stone blocks will only spawn by replacing a smooth stone block next to an already existing infused stone block.

Thank you for clarifying that. That means that my experiment would not have worked since I had no infused ore to begin with. Glad I didn't waste time recording it.
 

Exasperation

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Jul 29, 2019
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A little correction, IF you cannot use silverwood, then you cannot use ANY other wood. Why? because they work with probability.

yeah, the odds of getting a sapling from a silverwood are lower than a normal tree, But if no sapling drops from the trees in your spawn chunk, you shouldn't use any more wood because you would need to create more chunks. So, i think you should unban silverwood or ban everywood and basically, don't play the game. If a tree doesn't have a 100% probability of dropping, it's not a fully renewable resource, but a probability one, and as such, every probability should be banned. (For example, infused ore works in a similar way, higher the aura, higher the chance to turn SMOOTH stone into infused ore)

I like how you decided to play, but something you SHOULD ban is tnt/glass, it needs sand which is not renewable. Also, no arrows, because of flint.

And finishing: If you play with EE3, then you can get things easily :)
I disagree on several points; all vanilla wood can be gotten without trees at all via EE3. Both sand and gravel can be gotten in a renewable fashion by pulverizing cobble.

Oh yeah - re: Xeno's, I forgot you said mindcrack. No end stone for you, then.
 

whizzball1

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Jul 29, 2019
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I made a map kinda like this, where you cannot mine.
But, to get resources, you have to use....
Bees!
I made a void age for each biome other than Plains, and got a superflat for Plains.
There are Villagers Selling just about everything, including cobblestone for the rock flower.
The way to buy this stuff is through honeycombs, and you get to start with 2 apiaries and a Forest pair and Meadows pair.
Once you get enough combs to get another apiary and to get a new princess, then you can start breeding for Common.
You have to have every set of obtainable bee (besides timeset ones).
You also start with a centrifuge and stirling engine and 4 saplings and a beealyzer with some honey and 4 sets of Apiarists Suits (If Playing With A Friend).
There is a village off in the distance (It's a superflat anyway) which has some frames and bees.
Also an Apiarist Villager selling 6 Proven Frames for a Princess.
I also have a Frame Villager.
 

wolfsilver00

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Jul 29, 2019
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I disagree on several points; all vanilla wood can be gotten without trees at all via EE3. Both sand and gravel can be gotten in a renewable fashion by pulverizing cobble.

Oh yeah - re: Xeno's, I forgot you said mindcrack. No end stone for you, then.


But with ee3 you need obsidian, which is made with lava or iron, neither of them are renewable
 

brujon

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Jul 29, 2019
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Finding a natural cobble gen should be a first priority, lol. Masochistic goals, man. More power to you!
 

San

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Jul 29, 2019
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I found a nice server that will accommodate me. Here's what happened while I was landscaping:
2013-05-19_18.03.31.png

I could pick them up and move them... but that seems kinda lame.

2013-05-19_18.17.04.png

2013-05-19_18.22.40.png

Ta-Da!

Edit:
In other news I am building a house and collecting some resources. I have a bunch of plants and I'm situated next to a desert and a village, both of which will prove to be useful. I've also scouted out a silverwood tree that is ~300 blocks away. That node will prove useful for transmuting things without nasties spawning in case I mess up.

It seems like a few people in the thread don't properly understand a few key aspects of this gameplay.

Before assuming things are non-renewable I always at least check NEI. Lava is renewable, netherrack is renewable, dirt is renewable, lots of things are renewable. Most things in fact. What's tricky is when things are produced in a non-crafting method such as crops or the basalt generation mentioned above. That stuff sometimes throws me for a loop.

Just because I can't use non-renewable resources doesn't mean I cannot collect things from my environment. I can still get cobble from the ground and lava and stuff. It's not a matter of producing /everything/ on my own, it's a matter of whether or not those resources can be replenished if I run out. Naturally I'm going to try to produce as much stuff as possible on my own, but if I really wanted I could very well go to the nether and collect like a billion netherrack just because they have a .6% drop rate from scrap boxes.

Also, I don't think I will be trying out crops. If gold and iron are the only things I can get from them then it doesn't seem worth it. I can get both of those things from other sources, and redstone as well.
 

hotblack desiato

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Jul 29, 2019
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I guess, there are two different approaches. your approach and the one of a few other people here (including me).

you: everything out there that is renewable can be used.

others: you need to obtain the things in a renewable way and not the blocks that will be renewable later on.

easy example: sand. everyone knows, igneous extruder + pulverizer gives you cobblestone and turns it into sand. but does that allow to empty a desert full of sand?

I know it's much harder to get that stuff from scratch.

there is an older mod called skytable.

setup: start the game in a void age with some small ore asteroids. mods: mostly everything that was common last summer (including EE2, IC2 and BC/RC/forestry).

from beginning, you have: 81 EMC a transmutation table and you are standing on one block of bedrock. the transmutation table knows a few items, that would be otherwise unobtainable. and you start from there...

basically you need to think every time which item is renewable and try to get a method of generating it.
 

wolfsilver00

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Jul 29, 2019
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Where in ee3 do you see needing obsidian? The stone made from a mob drop, with iron (zombies), gold (pigmen), and smooth stone.

Also, iron, from zombies, and lava, from a crucible, so both eventually are renewed.


I meant you need it to make wood. And i didn't know you can get iron from zombies :s (forgot about crucibles)
 

San

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Jul 29, 2019
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Crops. Iron. Gold. Redstone. Most dyes, including your only possible source of the colour blue. And anything that grows, can grow as a crop 4 times faster.
I will consider getting red wheat since rubies can be obtained from the redstone, but the others don't appeal to me much. I've never done IC2 crops so this should be interesting.
Blue can be obtained easily from indigo flowers.
 

San

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Jul 29, 2019
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Well, made some good progress today, but I also committed my first significant conduct violation.

2013-05-20_23.35.08.png

My house is for the most part complete. Design credit: NovaSky

2013-05-20_23.38.10.png

I made an alloy furnace for breaking down metal things. Also, I got some rails from an abandoned mineshaft to smelt into ingots.

2013-05-20_23.27.29.png

While in the mineshaft I broke some cobwebs with my sword. Force of habit. The map is now short 2 cobwebs that we will never be able to get back :(

2013-05-20_23.48.58.png


I casted my first nether portal! I purchased shears and flint and steel from a villager.

2013-05-21_00.15.39.png

I used cacti to kill some zombie pigmen safely.

2013-05-21_00.17.41.png

Gold! Also, the nether portal spits me out a few hundred blocks from my base. Securely linking it will have to come later.

That's all for today. I left out my super interesting cow farm that I made too.