Gendustry vs. Extra Bees
- Thread starter Svangen
- Start date
Forestry is opensourced and run mostly by Player. It runs quite well on 1.7 and has a bright future.
Also as for the op, what about none? Unless you want shittons of material for free and in a very short amount of time, (in that case you might as well use creative mode
) try the challenge of being bees the way they were intended. It's fun try the challenge of being bees the way they were intended. It's fun
the "fun" part about bee breeding is when you do something not related to bees while praying to RNGeesus and waiting for the offspring.
it can bee somewhat soothing though.
I agree that things like that (and mining) to be rather calming. When I want something epic, I do. Thaumcraft or adventure or build huge bases.
If all you can do is pray to RNGeesus, you failed Bee Breeding 101. And no amount of Gendustry or Extra Bees could save your lack of knowledge, and in fact, exist mostly because people are lazy. Except Extra Bees has tons of new bees, and Gendustry is fairly late game anyway and while has just machines(and a framework for new bees), it's still better then the Machines in Extra Bees because they are easier to use, more expensive, more advanced, and useful too.
Takeway: Between a choice of Extra Bees Machines, or Gendustry machines, I chose "Get out! I'm trying to sleep. Yes it's 12:30 PM, now leave me alone for a while".
try the challenge of being bees the way they were intended. It's fun
been there, done that, got the t-shirt...on several maps.
just give me my bees and nobody gets hurt.
i was talking about bee breeding "as intended" i.e. without extra bees or gendustry.
And again, if all you can do is fall back on "Blame the RNG", you can only blame yourself, because it isn't a RNG. It's Punnet Squares. Unless you mean for getting products from your bees, which is
That's just what I don't get... >.<
Forestry is quite obviously copying RL selective breeding. This is exactly how people have been doing these things for millennia: breeding animals together based on best traits, selecting the offspring with the best traits and using those again for further breeding(it is why we have naked pigs with 300kg of bacon, 2+ meter tall horses, cows producing 25+ liters of milk per day and so on).
Yes there is a certain amount of randomness involved, but mostly it is a game of patience and intelligent choices. If people don't want to play that game, then why on earth even do bee breeding. There are tons of other mods out there to get your resources from.
that's exactly what i'm talking about. breeding out unwanted traits is rather predictable, but when it comes to mutations there isn't much you can do, except raising mutation chance with frames and such... and praying.
yeah, it does, it doesn't mean that it copies the "fun" thing, however. there is nothing wrong with it not being "fun", though.
If all your bitching about is that you can't force the mutations to occur more often, then I guess you ain't tryharding. Bee Keeping in Forestry is realistic. And guess what? The chance of actual grand leaps like Bees do is not bloody likely. A realistic version of that would be one in a Mole to get to just Common.
i'm simply relaying my experience with bees, which i'm quite reluctant to repeat.
Its more of comparing whats easier to whats more rewarding. Sure before gendustry, bee breeding actually took quite a while but Gendustry does have some nice bee things at the cost of making bee breeding quite a breeze. Its a great concept though as powered apiaries are pretty cool.
However Gendustry just cheapens the whole process a bit to much imo. For one, I dont think they should be operating at the safe effectiveness as an alvery as a base level. Sure with a full set of production upgrades then alvery quality is ok but at the base level, its a bit much. Thats prob my biggest gripe with it. 2, if its gonna make the bee breeding process in one go, it prob should either A) take longer to process the 2 bees together before the mutated queen, B) take more drones (say 32 drones and a princess) to make the new queen, or C) both. But dont get me wrong its a great mod and i love it.
However Gendustry just cheapens the whole process a bit to much imo. For one, I dont think they should be operating at the safe effectiveness as an alvery as a base level. Sure with a full set of production upgrades then alvery quality is ok but at the base level, its a bit much. Thats prob my biggest gripe with it. 2, if its gonna make the bee breeding process in one go, it prob should either A) take longer to process the 2 bees together before the mutated queen, B) take more drones (say 32 drones and a princess) to make the new queen, or C) both. But dont get me wrong its a great mod and i love it.
I start off with EB until I get royal jelly and then gendustry becomes a lot more useful for automating in most packs I've played bees have not been a large impact in progression and are usually something I have on the side just for fun
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I like both and overall, I'd have to say ExtraBees has a more consistent story line. Let's consider 3 arbitrary paths:
1. Breeding without machines the "old fashioned way"
Pros : Long-tail project that will keep your world going for weeks or months
Cons : Takes a very long time to get to species which produce usable resources and can be very tedious/repetitive
2. Breeding with just ExtraBees
Pros : You have to breed species (not traits) up to at least Industrial and Imperial the old-fashioned way
Cons : Can be too tedious for some to breed up Imperial and Industrial and after that, the old Isolator --> Synthesizer --> Purifier --> Inoculator shuffle can get tedious/repetitive
Can be considered "cheaty" to proponents of the old-fashioned way since you can brute-force traits
3. Breeding with just Gendustry
Pros : Fastest, easiest breeding method. Allows bypassing of breeding mechanics like biome and special blocks underneath.
Cons : Most expensive in terms of power and resources. Trivializes breeding mechanics
Personally, I prefer a bit of ExtraBees and Gendustry. I've done it the old fashioned-way. Once. Once was enough, in my book. However, I do enjoy spending 30 minutes or so a night breeding up a new species of bee using traditional species breeding mechanics, and then short-cutting the tedious/repetitive trait "improvements" using a combination of ExtraBees and Gendustry.
I breed trees these days in a similar fashion : breed up species the slow, old-fashioned way outside, but then improve traits using Gendustry. I did breed up a super-tree *once* the old-fashioned way by getting all of my species with desirable traits, then cross-breeding species to get desirable traits (i.e. no machines), but that was long and tedious. I think I've stared at a Treealyzer and Beealyzer enough to last a lifetime, TYVM.
A bit of all the above in moderation is what makes me happiest these days.[DOUBLEPOST=1405114932][/DOUBLEPOST]
Heh. I gate my automatic resource production using bees as a way to encourage slower development of my world. In the downtime of waiting for a new species of tree or bee, I'll go off and build stuff, make my base look better, explore, etc.,.
1. Breeding without machines the "old fashioned way"
Pros : Long-tail project that will keep your world going for weeks or months
Cons : Takes a very long time to get to species which produce usable resources and can be very tedious/repetitive
2. Breeding with just ExtraBees
Pros : You have to breed species (not traits) up to at least Industrial and Imperial the old-fashioned way
Cons : Can be too tedious for some to breed up Imperial and Industrial and after that, the old Isolator --> Synthesizer --> Purifier --> Inoculator shuffle can get tedious/repetitive
Can be considered "cheaty" to proponents of the old-fashioned way since you can brute-force traits
3. Breeding with just Gendustry
Pros : Fastest, easiest breeding method. Allows bypassing of breeding mechanics like biome and special blocks underneath.
Cons : Most expensive in terms of power and resources. Trivializes breeding mechanics
Personally, I prefer a bit of ExtraBees and Gendustry. I've done it the old fashioned-way. Once. Once was enough, in my book. However, I do enjoy spending 30 minutes or so a night breeding up a new species of bee using traditional species breeding mechanics, and then short-cutting the tedious/repetitive trait "improvements" using a combination of ExtraBees and Gendustry.
I breed trees these days in a similar fashion : breed up species the slow, old-fashioned way outside, but then improve traits using Gendustry. I did breed up a super-tree *once* the old-fashioned way by getting all of my species with desirable traits, then cross-breeding species to get desirable traits (i.e. no machines), but that was long and tedious. I think I've stared at a Treealyzer and Beealyzer enough to last a lifetime, TYVM.
A bit of all the above in moderation is what makes me happiest these days.[DOUBLEPOST=1405114932][/DOUBLEPOST]
Heh. I gate my automatic resource production using bees as a way to encourage slower development of my world. In the downtime of waiting for a new species of tree or bee, I'll go off and build stuff, make my base look better, explore, etc.,.
I'm with you up to a point, @rhn. If viewed on way, Gendustry is a slap in the face to Forestry breeding mechanics. And, it would really bad if Gendustry modified Forestry itself, but it doesn't. I think it's apparent to everybody that Gendustry is EZ-mode bees and trees.
I'll go out on a limb and will guess there are a fair number of players who would never try Forestry without ExtraBees or Gendustry, but get over their reluctance with Gendustry. From there, they may realize "oh, this is not so bad", and then their next world, try bees without the Gendustry crutch.
Think of Gendustry as training wheels for some. At least it gets them on the bike.
And, for those that have "been there, done that" with bees, Gendustry and ExtraBees lets them choose how much time they want to spend with bees. No reason to force people to do bees and trees the old-fashioned way every single world reset unles dems are the server rules. But, if those are server rules, then disable those mods (or, their machines, least).[DOUBLEPOST=1405115636][/DOUBLEPOST]
No problem with that at all, mate. The truly wonderful thing about vMC and especially modded MC is one size does not fit all and there is no 1 definition of "fun" or the "the right way".
The problem with bees is that it feels as if they got repeatedly nerfed out of spite when people realized they were useful in some cases, with the first nerf severely slowing everyone's progress (alvearies) and the latest one simply killing your bees unless you scooped every single beehive in the world (pristine and ignoble bees). Gendustry is pretty much a gift of "you want bees, so have your bees without needing to spend hours trying to get one mutation", and I find it unfair to call it "easy mode" when the "hard" mode only multiples the amount of time you waste by a hundred or so.
In fact, now that I think about it bees have always been a RNG fest and I probably never liked them anyway. I still have trouble understanding how people can like waiting two minutes between each try of getting something that happens either 25% to 50% of the time (breeding traits) or 10% at maximum (mutations), even with the mods that make that process less painful. In the end it's all a waiting game. A waiting game that rewards your (lack of) patience/sanity with pretty much creative mode, thanks to Extra Bees aaaaaaaa I need to stop thinking about this because it's only getting worse the more I think
So uh ignore what I just said and enjoy your breeding bee people, I think this part of the (modded) game simply wasn't made for me and my absolute, pure, deep hatred for anything that focuses too much on the RNG. Gendustry helps a bit and I like it as a mod, but I don't think it's enough to make me like bees again. I'll just stop caring about them forever once I drop a dragon egg in front of a rejuvenating bee.
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In fact, now that I think about it bees have always been a RNG fest and I probably never liked them anyway. I still have trouble understanding how people can like waiting two minutes between each try of getting something that happens either 25% to 50% of the time (breeding traits) or 10% at maximum (mutations), even with the mods that make that process less painful. In the end it's all a waiting game. A waiting game that rewards your (lack of) patience/sanity with pretty much creative mode, thanks to Extra Bees aaaaaaaa I need to stop thinking about this because it's only getting worse the more I think
So uh ignore what I just said and enjoy your breeding bee people, I think this part of the (modded) game simply wasn't made for me and my absolute, pure, deep hatred for anything that focuses too much on the RNG. Gendustry helps a bit and I like it as a mod, but I don't think it's enough to make me like bees again. I'll just stop caring about them forever once I drop a dragon egg in front of a rejuvenating bee.
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Tedium != gameplay. I'm grateful to Jadedcat for introducing Gendustry to me in Agrarian Skies, because without it, I simply wouldn't bother with bees again.
You are sort of right. Whether tedium (or what some consider tedium) equates to gameplay is a matter of opinion, and is the very reason these mods exist. You, I would assume, go for gendustry because it offers enormous benefits for very cheap, therefore saving time, while I, for example, would go for plain forestry.