FPS (frames per second) improvement

[Demosthenex]

First up if this is a duplicate I apologize. The search engine won't search "FPS", and I made a cursory review of the forums before posting.

I understand that low FPS (frames per second, NOT TPS ticks per second) is a chronic issue with modded Minecraft.

There is so much non-technical uninformed noise regarding FPS on the Minecraft forums that it gets very difficult to separate valid technical fixes from all of the third hand bull and opinions. Thus I pose the question of how to improve FPS to the FTB user base. My impression is that FTB users are much more knowledgeable.

Given the basic method of reducing particles and changing view depth, what are real ways to improve FPS and why do they work (the technical component). "Bob said use Java flag X" isn't a valid answer. Optifine has a reputation for breaking things.

I don't think I need to go into specifics regarding hardware, but I have a gaming system I built this year with excellent components and I still get <20 FPS in Minecraft and 100+ FPS in serious first person games. This is very frustrating.

Must I resign myself to crap FPS to enjoy my favorite sandbox game? Should I simply blame Java again and make due?

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Check out the JVM arguments thread.

Also give optifine a go

-its had mixed results; depending on who you ask/what version they used​

 

[McJty]

More recent versions of optifine start to work really well with modded minecraft. The only issues I still have are relatively minor z-fighting issues here and there. Otherwise make sure your video drivers are up to date and take a look at the video settings where you can tweak a few configuration options.

 

[rhn]

More recent versions of optifine start to work really well with modded minecraft. The only issues I still have are relatively minor z-fighting issues here and there. Otherwise make sure your video drivers are up to date and take a look at the video settings where you can tweak a few configuration options.

I am guessing you are talking about the 1.7 versions? Cause all the 1.6 versions still seem to have the major flaws of making limbs of players and mobs and parts of machinery, chests etc. go missing.

 

[Demosthenex]

At this point I am confident with JVM args from the perspective of maintaining a server. Client side I haven't been able to measure as effectively. Also the majority of the JVM arguments have been about tweaking how Java's internal management code works (ie: garbage collection) more than impacting the game. Given enough RAM and very little tuning, you don't experience lag during garbage collection.

It would be nice to verify that Java's OpenGL support is working properly. Are there tools outside Minecraft to stress test Java in 3d?

I've had mixed results with Optifine, and the support threads on these forums had scared me away. I may try it again but it's something I have used off and on.

Regarding video drivers, I haven't had the impression that Java has tight integration with any 3d driver that the version would make much difference. I know you can override some of the driver tweaks, but never found solid technical reasons for trying them. The Unreal platform has tight integration with the drivers, Java does not.

I think that's the most frustrating of all. There's so much supposition regarding poor FPS. Everyone has an opinion on it, and most of them are very uninformed. I'm starting to think it's endemic to the way Minecraft was coded and the platform it chose to use (Java).

I've read often where mod authors are frustrated with the rendering engine as well. I often see Reika take flack for his moving parts in RotaryCraft, but I can't fault him at all for them. You could render his models on a 386 in real time because they are just basic polygons in flat shapes. There's no reason why a modern gaming system couldn't render hundreds of thousands of them without breaking a sweat.

I'm looking forward to what other suggestions come up.[DOUBLEPOST=1404932201][/DOUBLEPOST]

I am guessing you are talking about the 1.7 versions? Cause all the 1.6 versions still seem to have the major flaws of making limbs of players and mobs and parts of machinery, chests etc. go missing.

I should clarify I'm on 1.6.

 

[rhn]

At this point I am confident with JVM args from the perspective of maintaining a server. Client side I haven't been able to measure as effectively. Also the majority of the JVM arguments have been about tweaking how Java's internal management code works (ie: garbage collection) more than impacting the game. Given enough RAM and very little tuning, you don't experience lag during garbage collection.

It would be nice to verify that Java's OpenGL support is working properly. Are there tools outside Minecraft to stress test Java in 3d?

I've had mixed results with Optifine, and the support threads on these forums had scared me away. I may try it again but it's something I have used off and on.

Regarding video drivers, I haven't had the impression that Java has tight integration with any 3d driver that the version would make much difference. I know you can override some of the driver tweaks, but never found solid technical reasons for trying them. The Unreal platform has tight integration with the drivers, Java does not.

I think that's the most frustrating of all. There's so much supposition regarding poor FPS. Everyone has an opinion on it, and most of them are very uninformed. I'm starting to think it's endemic to the way Minecraft was coded and the platform it chose to use (Java).

I've read often where mod authors are frustrated with the rendering engine as well. I often see Reika take flack for his moving parts in RotaryCraft, but I can't fault him at all for them. You could render his models on a 386 in real time because they are just basic polygons in flat shapes. There's no reason why a modern gaming system couldn't render hundreds of thousands of them without breaking a sweat.

I'm looking forward to what other suggestions come up.[DOUBLEPOST=1404932201][/DOUBLEPOST]

I should clarify I'm on 1.6.

I have personally seen quite large improvements when I have forgotten to update my videodrivers over a longer period and then do it. Speaking of 20+ fps once. But it wont happen every time you update your drivers ofc, but might still be worth to stay up to date.

 

[Demosthenex]

My Radeon is using their auto-update mechanism now. I don't think that's a concern.

I've had FPS issues in 1.5 and 1.6, which is why I believe it is chronic.

Anyone know a benchmark for Java 3D / OpenGL or the lightweight graphics lib Minecraft uses?

 

[rhn]

I've had FPS issues in 1.5 and 1.6, which is why I believe it is chronic.

Honestly think we will have to struggle with the crappy FPS problems until the day where Mojang decides to reprogram the game in a proper graphics engine... And the day that is going to happen is never...

 

[ScottulusMaximus]

Java combined with MC's rendering and light(even sound) engine are to blame, they were simply not coded to do what they need to do in modded MC...

You can have the biggest, baddest GFX card on the planet and it's not gonna do much cos MC simply can't use it. We're stuck with it I'm afraid.

 

[Demosthenex]

Java combined with MC's rendering and light(even sound) engine are to blame, they were simply not coded to do what they need to do in modded MC...

You can have the biggest, baddest GFX card on the planet and it's not gonna do much cos MC simply can't use it. We're stuck with it I'm afraid.

That's been the conclusion I've reached. It is very disappointing.

I would still like to find aJava 3d benchmark tool. My search results have turned up little.

 

[Demosthenex]

Check out the JVM arguments thread.

Also give optifine a go

-its had mixed results; depending on who you ask/what version they used​

Do you have the link to the current? The one I found says it was old and archived and no longer relevant.

 

[Zarkov]

I've also felt at times that modded Minecraft, in a sense, actually doesn't work. Once your setup get past a certain level of complexity / scale, the frame rate gets closer and closer to being a show-stopper. Sure, things will continue to produce items and shuffle them around etc., but at 10-15 FPS much of the enjoyment I get from the game is destroyed. Knowing that any further additions I make will only make things worse sort of kills the game at that point.

I don't know if they (Mojang) are working on a proper game engine using C/C++ instead of Java? Java is a good language, and Minecraft probably counts as a major achievement in using it, but it's not in the same ballpark as a "real" commercial graphics engine. I'm not looking for photo-realism or anything like that, it should keep the same style, but for instance adding a secondary terrain generator which approximates the landscape beyond a certain distance to get huge drawing distances. Things like that could really do wonders for immersion in Minecraft, as opposed to frequently having massive chunks of the world completely missing while exploring (just an example).

 

[rhn]

Do you have the link to the current? The one I found says it was old and archived and no longer relevant.

There really isn't any current ones. Eyamaz have put forward a few for his BnB pack. You can enable these by checking off the "fast computers" option in the launcher. But I have experienced reduced performance with these when using Monster, and after trying out all kinds of other other ones that people recommend I have gone back to not using any.

 

[Demosthenex]

And Optifine crashes every time with Monster 1.1.2 (and extras). It's a great solution.[DOUBLEPOST=1404938832][/DOUBLEPOST]

I've also felt at times that modded Minecraft, in a sense, actually doesn't work. Once your setup get past a certain level of complexity / scale, the frame rate gets closer and closer to being a show-stopper. Sure, things will continue to produce items and shuffle them around etc., but at 10-15 FPS much of the enjoyment I get from the game is destroyed. Knowing that any further additions I make will only make things worse sort of kills the game at that point.

I don't know if they (Mojang) are working on a proper game engine using C/C++ instead of Java? Java is a good language, and Minecraft probably counts as a major achievement in using it, but it's not in the same ballpark as a "real" commercial graphics engine. I'm not looking for photo-realism or anything like that, it should keep the same style, but for instance adding a secondary terrain generator which approximates the landscape beyond a certain distance to get huge drawing distances. Things like that could really do wonders for immersion in Minecraft, as opposed to frequently having massive chunks of the world completely missing while exploring (just an example).

I happen to agree. I'd buy Minecraft v2 on a real engine.

 

[rhn]

I happen to agree. I'd buy Minecraft v2 on a real engine.

Definitely something I would pay the same for as other retail games(or more). If I was Mojang I would stop developing on Minecraft that is being sold at underprice and start develop its successor and this time do it properly!

 

[Demosthenex]

A formal mod API would be nice... And maybe in Python or Lua instead of Java.

 

[LukeWUK]

I get 400fps in new fresh worlds.. and like goes down to 120fps when busy. Thats on a powerful pc with medium poor gfx card! (I7 4770k processor, 64gb performence ram.. raid ssd.drives... and a gtx 650 lol . No arguments or anything to tune done.

If your java (Im on Java 7) is up to date..and your components are similar to mine then theres defo a prob somewhere

 

[rhn]

I get 400fps in new fresh worlds.. and like goes down to 120fps when busy. Thats on a powerful pc with medium poor gfx card! (I7 4770k processor, 64gb performence ram.. raid ssd.drives... and a gtx 650 lol . No arguments or anything to tune done.

If your java (Im on Java 7) is up to date..and your components are similar to mine then theres defo a prob somewhere

Anyone can get high FPS with small modpacks, no texturepacks, on servers and non-complex builds. But try running large packs in singleplayer, use special terrain generations and biomes(like ATG+BoP+Highlands in Monster), use a 64x or higher texture pack and then build large complex bases and your FPS will drop dramatically. You will usually be converging towards a fps of around 10-15 the further you build and the more complex it all gets.

 

[LukeWUK]

Well i used to play beyond reality which is big pack! but currently on blood n bones. Always use a texture pack and have had some huge bases before... i do always ssp but use a smp running on my pc .. im pretty sure that helps thinking about it!

The only thing i not tried is atg.. perhaps my raid 5 ssd array makes a diff!

However some servers host 50 players lol ..my pc can easily render fast for 1 player lol surely thats believeable?

I think with hardware like this ..20 fps is too low! The op hasnt given specs .

 

[rhn]

I think with hardware like this ..20 fps is too low! The op hasnt given specs .

No 20FPS is quite normal once you progress far enough even with that hardware. My PC is pretty comparable with what you posted(although I have no use for 64GB of RAM lol) and I also start out with FPS in the hundreds. But after having played and build up a base for months the FPS starts dropping down towards 20-30ish in some parts of my base.