Forums/Website suggestion

[Taladan]

I didn't want to post this...I'd hoped someone else would do it after we had the discussion in #FTB on esper. However, it looks like that's not going to happen. So, without further ado...

FTB would benefit from a system whereby the developers of the pack can have a method of 'checking out' on a project...basically just logging into the site and flagging that they're working on it with listable goals/bugs that they can mark off as they acheive them. When they're not working on the project, they can 'check out' of the project and it can go into a 'hiatus' mode of some sort.

If this system were implemented the website or forum could then have a public facing 'stat's page that listed each project, the current status of the project 'under construction', 'bug fixing', etc. with a progress bar showing the amount of bugs/goals taken care of. You could be as open or closed about this as you wanted, but it would give the public a place to be pointed to and told 'this is the status of X project, go there and keep an eye on it'. That way people wouldn't be constantly harrassed by the same folks about ETA's on modpacks. etc.

For this to work however, the devs of the modpacks/ftb team would /have/ to use the interface faithfully. If it was only used halfway then it wouldn't work. We all know the fiasco of anger, bitterness and resentment that occurs when the developers aren't talking to the community. That sense of communal entitlement is never going away, but at least with a stats system that the community could read and keep an eye on, it would alleviate some of that pressure on the devs from the community to communicate their progress.

I don't know that the FTB devs would see this as a workable solution and use it, but I do know that it's something that could help out the devs and the community immensely, and would add to the professionalism of the pack.

If you guys think this idea sucks, feel free to shoot me down and kick dirt over me in the interim.

 

[Morvelaira]

I'll let it be known as I said on Twitter that I personally like the core and intent of this idea. I'm just not so certain on the implementation.

 

[ScottWears]

I like the idea but I honestly don't know who the responsibility falls down to ?

Is it down to FTB?

we don't develop the mods we just put them into a nice neat package which other's also do (the likes of Calclavia and the universal electricity pack), to make it easy for people to play.​

The mod developers themselves?

They make the mods but don't usually work together not in a bad blood sense just in a way that they all have allot of time taken by their respective mods and I'm sure that although they may like the idea some of them might not be inclined to use it.​

the community ?

this again is a difficult one sure any one could set up a site with the system but would the mod developers feel inclined to use it ? would the community find away to keep it running or funded ? how would they keep in touch with mod developers and pack developers etc?​

​

A new entity?

Is there an option of setting up a new entity some one who is neutral to both the community and the mod developers? someone or a group of someones who like modded minecraft but who are willing to be rational and unbiased ? this new entity would not only report to the community but the developers as well they would need to be able to build bridges and invest time and possible money into making a system the makes it easy for all to not only disseminate information but also to be able to read it.​

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this would be a very long and drawn out task but not an impossible one ... the hardest thing to me would be for all to agree on standards with in the mods, not in terms of coding butas an example ...​

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Mod X has a bug is this bug classified as A. showstopping/game breaking​

B. serous but not game breaking​

C. so on and so forth ..........​

​

the problem would be who decides what is a bug and how bad it is ? etc.​

​

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Like I said I also like the Idea as a starting point, a basis for moving forward and my hope is that this thread remains constructive and maybe something someday might come of it.​

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Scott​

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TL;DR I like it but it has Kinks ​

Edit: Holy cow that's a wall of text Sowwy

 

[Taladan]

I like the idea but I honestly don't know who the responsibility falls down to ?

Is it down to FTB?

we don't develop the mods we just put them into a nice neat package which other's also do (the likes of Calclavia and the universal electricity pack), to make it easy for people to play.​

Initially, yes it should be down to FTB. This is not a progress page for mods, that I'm imagining, but a progress page for the launcher and modpack development and I apologize for not making that more clear. This would be a direct responsibility of the modpack organization/dev team.

The mod developers themselves?

They make the mods but don't usually work together not in a bad blood sense just in a way that they all have allot of time taken by their respective mods and I'm sure that although they may like the idea some of them might not be inclined to use it.​

As to a progression stats page for the mods themselves going into the modpacks, that in and of itself would be up to the modders to determine to use - it could be an interface that only they and the FTB team could interface with or it could have a public facing stats sheet itself. That's something that the modding community may well like to see happen so that they can have standardized tools for letting people know their progress without having to try and always edit a mcf post, or necessarily needing to interface with the community of users (ala Eloraam). I know most modders have their own websites and blogs however so this will be less likely to be glommed onto by the major modders unless they see it as a useful, beneficial tool, something that helps them organize, mod faster, or performs a function that they have a hard time doing themselves - read: a cms type interface that they can just plug info into and have it handle it so they don't necessarily have to put stuff into the wiki/blog/whatever that doesn't necessarily belong there...newer modders would definitely benefit from something like this.

the community ?

this again is a difficult one sure any one could set up a site with the system but would the mod developers feel inclined to use it ? would the community find away to keep it running or funded ? how would they keep in touch with mod developers and pack developers etc?​

​

I wouldn't leave it up to just a base set of faceless fans to develop something like this either for modders or the FTB pack teams...too much danger of someone with the deep down crazies getting in there and making a mess of things. I've seen it happen before and it's never a Good Thing (tm)

A new entity?

Is there an option of setting up a new entity some one who is neutral to both the community and the mod developers? someone or a group of someones who like modded minecraft but who are willing to be rational and unbiased ? this new entity would not only report to the community but the developers as well they would need to be able to build bridges and invest time and possible money into making a system the makes it easy for all to not only disseminate information but also to be able to read it.​

​

this would be a very long and drawn out task but not an impossible one ... the hardest thing to me would be for all to agree on standards with in the mods, not in terms of coding butas an example ...​

​

Mod X has a bug is this bug classified as A. showstopping/game breaking​

B. serous but not game breaking​

C. so on and so forth ..........​

​

the problem would be who decides what is a bug and how bad it is ? etc.​

​

​

As far as a new entity goes, it could well develop into an entirely new segment of FTB or a conglomeration of modders working together, or a third party who knows a hella lot about web design and functionality, but not modding or isn't involved in the modpacks. As to the decisions about how bugs are classed, that should be the simplest thing to deal with. High priority would be bugs that cause game breakage. Serious crash issues. Medium priority would be crash issues under certain circumstances and Low priority would be things that don't crash the game but don't quite work as intended. Those are classifiable situations that we have all come across and dealt with in the past and as most modders are now making use of resources like google code, git, jenkis, etc. I think it would be a system they'd be comfortable with...even if there could be a way to tie it into their own particular codepage for release (see list previous) I think they'd be well inclined to use it if given half the chance.

All that said, even if the modders don't really attract to it, I think it's something that would be beneficial to the FTB community for the modpack devs to invest time in doing so that A) they can have a centralized TODO list that is functional and reactive to their input, and B) so they don't have to constantly interface with the public on 'how long until the ultimate pack is released!' or 'DW20 pack has X bug, do you know about it/is it fixed/when will it be fixed!' 100 times a day. I know that as a user, I prefer not bothering people in the irc or on the forums with a bunch of crap they've already had to answer a thousand times before I logged in, but I'd still like to be able to check a page and keep up with the updates.

And hey, if people can't get behind the idea, it won't happen, but I think it would keep down a good bit of the enmity from the players and help the developers be more productive. Just my thoughts on it. Thanks for reading wall o' text.

~Tal

 

[Jadedcat]

I think you have a reasonably common misconception of what FTB is/does.

FTB is not here to push mod developers around and or give them a way of organizing how they code. We do not tell the mod developers to do anything. Most FTB staff members are not entitled to know anything that is coming or might be coming along with any mod. We are also not here to track down bugs and force developers to make bug fixes. We are also not some giant United Nations system for mod devs.

FTB is here to make it easier for the end user to install multiple mods the work well together. We use mod releases that are available to the general public. We do not badger mod authors and we will not badger them.

A system such as what is being suggested makes the implication that the mod developers owe us either FTB or the end user a schedule or time table. They do not owe us anything. We are not entitled to their efforts.

Each mod developer has their own way of doing things. Requiring the mod devs to stay on a schedule and work together is: 1. incredibly arrogant and 2. would quickly kill any joy and excitement they have in their hobby resulting in the death of the mods.

Think of mod devs as highly talented visual and coding artists. The best artists and the best art do not perform well under pressure. Enmity on the part of the end user is foolish and not our problem.

As to the modpack team. They have ways of staying in touch and staying up to date. They don't need another method. We have a staff irc channel recently set up for everyone to communicate on. There are hidden forums members can't see where things can be discussed.

Some people seem to think that because staff members say something is coming at a specific time and then change what they said that there is a disconnect in communication. Frequently its a matter of what the staff member says being taken out of context or interpreted through individual bias. In the case of staff members who seem to not know the answer to some questions, its because not all staff members are entitled to know everything. The number of staff members with access to know some things is a lot lower then you might think.

Just because people think there is a disconnect in communication doesn't mean there actually is. The people that need to know stuff know it. People without a need to know don't.

 

[Taladan]

I know that I answered this in IRC, but to have completion here.

I never intimated that the FTB should ever, EVER try to tell mod devs what to do, how to do it, or when it should be done. Wasn't even thinking of mod dev's when I initially posted it until Scott said something about it.

As to the disconnect, no, I didn't think there was any particularly great disconnect there between the pack devs. The disconnect is where your users don't know what's going on as far as if the packs are even being worked on until Slow had to stop what he was doing, take time to make a special post. This idea is simply for a forward facing stats page that would show a percentage done on a pack's development so people with ETA requests could have something to tell them how far along a particular pack is. You could choose to put as little or as much info out there as you want, but the whole idea is to work /with/ your consumers, not /against/ them. It's not a matter of entitlement, simply a matter of letting people who are excited about your product know that it's not vaporware, it is being worked on.

Basically, I had hoped this idea could be used for helping people chill the hell out, get rid of some of the enmity people get around pack release times - because whether you like it or not, end user enmity /is/ your problem If people get pissed at your product because they never know what's going on, bad word of mouth will kill it. Also to help people who run servers who would like to give their players an ETA/%% complete idea so they know when they're going to get to play with the new toys. I get it you don't like the idea, so if you want to lock down this thread and delete it, that's fine. Just didn't want there to be this idea that I'm trying to get anyone to tell devs what to do, or that I think you guys don't know how to communicate. Was just thinking about us. The little guys.

Sorry to've bothered ya with this

 

[Jadedcat]

We don't lock or delete threads unless they break rules.. this doesn't so not an issue.

As per Slow

"We'll get right on that as soon as we get paid"

 

[Taladan]

Well, if the coin of the realm is support, good will and good word of mouth, I'd consider you paid, but if you're looking for cash, users may well be willing to give donations to this effect. Maybe put it to them to consider it?

 

[Jadedcat]

Actually we don't want pay. Because if we were paid then we would need to do this type thing. We like being having a looser command structure. End users need to stop expecting us to act and behave like a professional company where people get paid and etc. We are not asking for money we are saying this is not a professional company and while our goal is to make things easier on the end user we are not here to keep people informed on the day to day minutia.

 

[Taladan]

I dig that...I really do. And if you reread everything I've said (other than using internal tools for todo's and whatnot for you guys) you'd see that the only thing I've suggested that the end users get to see is a percentage complete type dealio which was already something done on that spreadsheet for the mod releases right before Christmas. If you're not going to ask for money...then it's odd that slow would suggest you'd get right on it when you get paid. I know it's basically intended, in your words, as a way of telling me to fsck off...but does the entire FTB team really want to come off as sounding, in public, like they really don't care at all about the end user? I'd really hope that wasn't what it was supposed to sound like, because the fact that all this work has been put into the pack and so much has been done to promote this as a user friendly, 'legal' modpack shows a different attitude, a heart towards the user. I'd like to think most of you care greatly for the end users, the little guys who want to be able to hang out and play with their friends because of the actions the pack dev team has undergone to do this thing really does speak louder than the 'fsck off' words, so I figured any way to help ease everyone's passage through this new thing that is FTB would be well received...

Anyways, thanks for being so open and honest with me, I think it's logical discussion like this that will help people overall instead of resorting to base hostility.

 

[Jadedcat]

Slow will look at this tommorrow.

 

[Taladan]

Alright, I'm in slow's stream at the moment, and hearing the explanation why you can't take money makes sense...was completely unaware of that and it's understandable that you don't have the time or the resources to implement something like that without someone who knows what they're doing being able to implement it for you on their own time. If I knew diddly about web programming, I'd gladly do it, however I don't so that's out. Maybe someone will see this idea/thread and volunteer something. Again, sorry you had to spend so much time on this but I /really/ appreciate you taking the time to communicate with me in public forum about it. Thank you very much for taking the time to discuss it with me

 

[Jadedcat]

We may come across as harsh but we will discuss most things.

 

[Rob]

I like this idea. Currently the website project are pushed to codebasehq project which fully supports tickets and millstones with the ability to mark tickets as bug/feature etc there is also an API which should allow us to pull these tickets off and display them publicly but it is something I will have to look in to. As for mod packs that's a new story it would be nice to have them in a Codebase area but currently our account is limited to the about of projects we can have to it along with a user limit. There has been talk of an area like this needed on Team speak and is something I hope will happen soon.

*Adds new website to list*
*Dang that's the fifth website needed*