Final Release of Infinity Evolved and 1.8.9 Development

C

Clintomus

Guest
If FastCraft does show up for 1.8.9 please test it a bit more before adding it to everything. I remove it from every modpack with astounding results. Take the latest Infinity Evolved. FC on 30fps. FC on OptiFine HD_C1 on 80fps. FC off OptiFine HD_C1 on 95 fps. Both off 90fps. All on the same config, all with the same exact view. I just reduced my graphics settings a touch with both off and got 120fps.
 

neeneko

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Probably the mod authors if they are taking in bug reports. Which they probably are. As Tinkers construct was removed for not being finished enough for an ubstable pack. This tells me that it's author propably doesn't want feedback yet.
If they don't want feedback they will ask FTB to pull ot from the pack.

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That makes sense.
I guess time to start digging and figure out which mod is giving me issues then ^_^
 

BrickVoid

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2012
593
57
54
Greetings and welcome to the new FTB Newsletter! This issue will only be a brief overview of some pertinent material, but over the next few weeks, we will begin to publish a more formal newsletter. This will be a streamlined way for us to deliver important FTB news and information such as update announcements, community events, and various other things that may be of interest to you.


  • FTB Infinity Evolved version 2.3.5 - This will be the final major update for the pack except for any minor bug fixes that may eventually become necessary.

  • FTB Unstable version 3.x.x - This exciting, new modpack is being used as a testing platform for exploring modding in future 1.8.9 packs. As such, users should be aware that support for this pack will be very limited. Updates will be occurring almost on a daily basis, and worlds may occasionally need to be reset as new content becomes available.

In summary, you can expect to see a more formal newsletter keeping you up-to-date on important FTB related information. For now, just be aware that FTB Infinity Evolved is finalized and will be receiving no more new updates, and FTB Unstable is a cutting edge pack for testing mods in a 1.8.9 environment that will be updated almost every day, but as such, it will provide little to no tech support, and your world may need to be reset on occasion. That being said, 2016 is going to be an exciting year for the FTB Team, and we can’t wait to share it with you!


Due to inherent instabilities in the current developer version of Tinkers Construct in the FTB Unstable pack, we have made the decision to remove the mod until an update is released. We apologise for any inconveniences this may cause; however, as stated with the Unstable pack, situations like this do crop up from time to time. Tinkers Construct will return to Unstable in the near future.
Regarding FTB Infinity Evolved's Expert Mode: I had looked at this pack's mode but decided it wasn't worth my time mainly because it involved using time gates for certain critical items. Time gates were a big turn-off for me, as I can not and will not wait for almost a real-life day just to get some AE2-specific materials. It just isn't worth it, it certainly isn't easy for automation, and no matter what crystal growth accelerators could do for shortening the growth time, it certainly didn't look easy to get to. Time gates to me are a big no-no, because you have to wait for something. If that wait is excessive, then it makes any pack using it a drudge-fest. If you revisit the concept of an Expert Mode in a future pack, kindly consider alternative routes to time gates, as while I have a lot of free time, I don't have free power to run my PC whilst waiting for crystals to grow, and if I see way too many hours are needed to get crystals, I'm just going to consider it not worth my time or power, at all. To those who would point out that there are alternatives, yes I know that, but if said alternatives are also not easy to get to, then it's still a drudge-fest, which makes getting to certain items tedious and boring.

Cheers ...

BrickVoid
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
8,349
7,216
383
Waterloo, Ontario
Regarding FTB Infinity Evolved's Expert Mode: I had looked at this pack's mode but decided it wasn't worth my time mainly because it involved using time gates for certain critical items. Time gates were a big turn-off for me, as I can not and will not wait for almost a real-life day just to get some AE2-specific materials. It just isn't worth it, it certainly isn't easy for automation, and no matter what crystal growth accelerators could do for shortening the growth time, it certainly didn't look easy to get to. Time gates to me are a big no-no, because you have to wait for something. If that wait is excessive, then it makes any pack using it a drudge-fest. If you revisit the concept of an Expert Mode in a future pack, kindly consider alternative routes to time gates, as while I have a lot of free time, I don't have free power to run my PC whilst waiting for crystals to grow, and if I see way too many hours are needed to get crystals, I'm just going to consider it not worth my time or power, at all. To those who would point out that there are alternatives, yes I know that, but if said alternatives are also not easy to get to, then it's still a drudge-fest, which makes getting to certain items tedious and boring.

Cheers ...

BrickVoid
The only forced time gate I'm aware of (so far) are the AE2 seeds (The runic matrix mana thing doesn't count because you can brute-force that).

While I'm actually pretty fond of the pond mechanic, and I really like that it encourages you to build growth accelerators, I also appreciate that some people kinda wanna get from A to B and they can get caught offguard if they really want to just work on a specific project and didn't prepare those seeds in advance.

BrickVoid if this is really the major stumbling block for you in the pack and you still want to give it a chance, why don't you add a recipe for the AE2 crystal seeds which runs tangent to the existing method without totally subverting it? Something like a highly-inefficient alloy smelter recipe or some such where you spend 10 dust + 1 Sand instead of 1 dust + 1 sand to accomplish the same thing. This would give you a backdoor method of building the growth accelerators and thereby removing the (majority) of this time gate.
 

Watchful11

Forum Addict
Team Member
Third Party Pack Admin
Nov 6, 2012
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Regarding FTB Infinity Evolved's Expert Mode: I had looked at this pack's mode but decided it wasn't worth my time mainly because it involved using time gates for certain critical items. Time gates were a big turn-off for me, as I can not and will not wait for almost a real-life day just to get some AE2-specific materials. It just isn't worth it, it certainly isn't easy for automation, and no matter what crystal growth accelerators could do for shortening the growth time, it certainly didn't look easy to get to. Time gates to me are a big no-no, because you have to wait for something. If that wait is excessive, then it makes any pack using it a drudge-fest. If you revisit the concept of an Expert Mode in a future pack, kindly consider alternative routes to time gates, as while I have a lot of free time, I don't have free power to run my PC whilst waiting for crystals to grow, and if I see way too many hours are needed to get crystals, I'm just going to consider it not worth my time or power, at all. To those who would point out that there are alternatives, yes I know that, but if said alternatives are also not easy to get to, then it's still a drudge-fest, which makes getting to certain items tedious and boring.

Cheers ...

BrickVoid
The point of expert mode is to force you to automate stuff. If you try to do everything manually, it's going to take a very long time. With very few exceptions, everything can be done faster just by upgrading or adding new machines. The first crystals are indeed a fairly long time gate. But the resources for the crystals themselves are trivial. If you just plan a bit ahead, you can get several stacks of them long before you have the rest of the ingredients for AE.

It's supposed to be a struggle. You're supposed to have to make decisions about whether to advance to the next tier of machines or make more of an lower level one. If you make the wrong choice, you could indeed get caught having to wait for one process or another. That's why it's called expert mode.
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
8,349
7,216
383
Waterloo, Ontario
The point of expert mode is to force you to automate stuff. If you try to do everything manually, it's going to take a very long time. With very few exceptions, everything can be done faster just by upgrading or adding new machines. The first crystals are indeed a fairly long time gate. But the resources for the crystals themselves are trivial. If you just plan a bit ahead, you can get several stacks of them long before you have the rest of the ingredients for AE.

It's supposed to be a struggle. You're supposed to have to make decisions about whether to advance to the next tier of machines or make more of an lower level one. If you make the wrong choice, you could indeed get caught having to wait for one process or another. That's why it's called expert mode.
I'm devil's advocating a bit here because I'm observing a potential problem. Watchful, note where I said "people wanna get from A to B and focus on a project". Nobody's struggling with this, there's just a plausible opportunity here to increase the fun without negatively impacting the difficulty in any way.

Including an expensive alternative to the existing "essentially free" crystals doesn't subvert the expert level of the pack, it just transforms time-costs (which I can accumulate by leaving my computer on and going to bed) into resource-costs (which I have to spend energy and/or time acquiring). This is particularly true since you're the gatekeeper and can decide how many physical resources is equivalent to four hours of waiting around. (I said 10:1 but 100:1 is just as plausibly suitable)
 

Azzanine

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Regarding FTB Infinity Evolved's Expert Mode: I had looked at this pack's mode but decided it wasn't worth my time mainly because it involved using time gates for certain critical items. Time gates were a big turn-off for me, as I can not and will not wait for almost a real-life day just to get some AE2-specific materials. It just isn't worth it, it certainly isn't easy for automation, and no matter what crystal growth accelerators could do for shortening the growth time, it certainly didn't look easy to get to. Time gates to me are a big no-no, because you have to wait for something. If that wait is excessive, then it makes any pack using it a drudge-fest. If you revisit the concept of an Expert Mode in a future pack, kindly consider alternative routes to time gates, as while I have a lot of free time, I don't have free power to run my PC whilst waiting for crystals to grow, and if I see way too many hours are needed to get crystals, I'm just going to consider it not worth my time or power, at all. To those who would point out that there are alternatives, yes I know that, but if said alternatives are also not easy to get to, then it's still a drudge-fest, which makes getting to certain items tedious and boring.

Cheers ...

BrickVoid
Tried using logistics pipes as an alternative. While it's UI is frigging clumsy in comparison to AE2 and way less compact. It appears to me that Logistics Pipes are supposed to be the intended path for mid to late game inventory management.

Only real problem with logistics pipes is that it relies on conventional storage. But Storage Drawers with their drawer controllers make this better.

It seems like a lot of people are playing expert who arent experts.

What distinguishes an expert from a novice is the knowledge of the mods. A novice sees that their go to mod is blocked by progression gates and will whine. An expert will be as annoyed as the novice but has the knowledge to find a reasonable alternative.
In this instance they find AE is locked behind some grindy time gated nonsense. They will then look at the mod list and see storage drawers and logistics pipes are available and relatively untweaked. They will also know that Storage drawers has a block that can let automation access an entire wall of drawers.
Then they will make either a request pipe or the request table from LP and their crafting needs are somewhat met.

That being said AE2 is still better for storage, but it's not a nessesity.
Storage drawers are still more compact then a wall of chests. Actually even those 4 draw versions hold a lot of stacks if you upgrade them. Which can be easy if you abuse villager trades. When will modders realize that emeralds are trash. As far as the rarity of vannila resource goes it's coal> iron> gold> emerald> diamond. All because you can turn wheat, meat, paper and wool in to emeralds all those resources are renewable too.

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Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
8,349
7,216
383
Waterloo, Ontario
Tried using logistics pipes as an alternative. While it's UI is frigging clumsy in comparison to AE2 and way less compact. It appears to me that Logistics Pipes are supposed to be the intended path for mid to late game inventory management.

Only real problem with logistics pipes is that it relies on conventional storage. But Storage Drawers with their drawer controllers make this better.

It seems like a lot of people are playing expert who arent experts.

What distinguishes an expert from a novice is the knowledge of the mods. A novice sees that their go to mod is blocked by progression gates and will whine. An expert will be as annoyed as the novice but has the knowledge to find a reasonable alternative.
In this instance they find AE is locked behind some grindy time gated nonsense. They will then look at the mod list and see storage drawers and logistics pipes are available and relatively untweaked. They will also know that Storage drawers has a block that can let automation access an entire wall of drawers.
Then they will make either a request pipe or the request table from LP and their crafting needs are somewhat met.
BrickVoid never said anything about accessing specific (storage or logistical) capabilities of AE2. Nor is it sensible to create an LP system just for the hours it takes for your crystals to form. He has already attained the technological level required to begin AE2 and for all you or I know already has an excellent LP system in place.

I agree with pretty much everything you said above on a general level, just not how it applies in this situation.
 

Azzanine

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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BrickVoid never said anything about accessing specific (storage or logistical) capabilities of AE2. Nor is it sensible to create an LP system just for the hours it takes for your crystals to form. He has already attained the technological level required to begin AE2 and for all you or I know already has an excellent LP system in place.

I agree with pretty much everything you said above on a general level, just not how it applies in this situation.
From the guys initial post it implied that they hardly played the mode let alone has any infrastructure.

Phrases like "looked in to the mode" indicate to me that they haven't got far in to expert.

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Mikhaila666

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Jul 29, 2019
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There are a couple of problems with progression on servers that won't affect single player. Many players don't take any time to find a way that is lag friendly.
The first is iridium. I would much rather have seen iridium only available from reactors. Players take the known route of EU to Mass fabricators with a lot of scrap. We had a dozen players producing cobble and feeding it to 20-40 recyclers with a dozen overclockers each. In some cases they used EU nodes with a few stacks of World Interaction upgrades to get the cobble.
The second is logistics pipes as a substitute for an ME system. I'm not sure how much each component was behaving, but somethin about the mod can really cut down on tps when a players tries to replicate an ME autocrafting system using logistics pipes.
 

neeneko

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
73
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That makes sense.
I guess time to start digging and figure out which mod is giving me issues then ^_^
Looks like it was HydCraft that was causing my Unstable game to die. Mod author is not accepting bug reports, but if anyone else is encountering issues where the world quietly stops updating, that might be the culprit.
 

Azzanine

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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There are a couple of problems with progression on servers that won't affect single player. Many players don't take any time to find a way that is lag friendly.
The first is iridium. I would much rather have seen iridium only available from reactors. Players take the known route of EU to Mass fabricators with a lot of scrap. We had a dozen players producing cobble and feeding it to 20-40 recyclers with a dozen overclockers each. In some cases they used EU nodes with a few stacks of World Interaction upgrades to get the cobble.
The second is logistics pipes as a substitute for an ME system. I'm not sure how much each component was behaving, but somethin about the mod can really cut down on tps when a players tries to replicate an ME autocrafting system using logistics pipes.
Probably doesn't help that a lot of items now require steps In machines. The mod is probably waiting on a lot of steps and doesn't handle waiting on the requests well.
For instance if you where to automate basic TE machine blocks. Previously all youd need is two autocrafting tables; one to craft the tin gear and another to put it together with 4 iron and 4 glass.
In expert you need;
-a crusher for the crushed obsidian.
-A metal former and compressor for the dense refined iron plates. That will need two crafting pipes.
-a Carpenter for the basic circuit board.
-assembly table for the iron chipset.
-A smeltery for the tin gear

Then all that needs to get back in to an assembly table to craft...

After all that now ask LP to craft 10 basic machine blocks...

Also considering the recipies complication I bet people will most certainly try to automate that ASAP. it's the only reason I have stuck with IC2 in expert mode. I decide "ohh! I should use a TE machine to solve my problem... ohh wait... machine blocks... no ty".



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keybounce

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Jul 29, 2019
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You're right! No good mods are on 1.8.9 at all. We should just forget it even exists.
You know, maybe that's not such a bad idea.

Et Futurum + 1.7.10 has most of the features of 1.8.9 (just missing the attack fishes). So regard 1.8.9 as a testing platform, for dealing with the major under-the-hood changes that Mojang has come out with. Regard 1.9 as the next "end user" version.

Yes, I mean officially adopt an "every other version" strategy.

What does this force/enable Forge to do?

1. Force support for altering blocks from version to version!

Moving from a 1.7.10 world with Et Futurum to a 1.9 world will require mapping Et_Futurum:diorite to minecraft:diorite (and I'm sorry if that's not quite the internal names). Etc. For all the stone types.

Well, if you can do that, you can do other things.

Suddenly, removing a mod, even a worldgen mod, is no longer catestrophic. Imagine being able to change all of the *:copper blocks to universal_minerals:copper, and eliminate all of the oredict headaches in one blow.

2. Got lots of crud accumulated in forge's names over the years when people didn't have a clue, and then didn't want to fix/rename because everything would break? *Break it now!*, in the developers 1.8 release, so that when the next user release (1.9) comes out, it will be working properly.

This is the time to say "Lets fix all the bad API's". All the bad method names. Put in proper argument names for arguments rather than relying on "If we fix these, we break everyone".

Break it now, during the developer phase, so that it will work properly in the next user phase.

3. End user / modpack stability.

How badly do you think end users want "cutting edge", versus how badly do you think end users want to play the game?

If you have the philosophy of "always update to the newest", then players can't get a stable play experience. The whole idea of "No more updates or improvements for 1.7.10, and now we begin months of getting everything to work right together under 1.8.9", with mods getting little or no love for the stable worlds, and modpacks being put into a position of "Hey, be obsolete or be incomplete", well, that's not a happy camp to be in.