EE3 4 Gold=1 diamond ?
- Thread starter NyanChicken
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I remember hearing that in a future update to EE, Pah was planning on adding a way to check if there is a mod that gives more powder from rods and to automatically change the EMC value of the powder when those mods are installed. That fixes the exploit. Making diamonds out of logs is a little strong tho. Especially with how many ways we have in FTB to auto tree farm. Granted, we only have the minium stone atm, so the stone doesn't last forever, but when the Philo stone will be out, that'll just be way too easy to automatically create anything in that branch (assuming that Pah decides to split his transmutes like he planned to).
Like I stated before, I won't use it because I see it as practical creative mode. While creative mode is great- I've seen some amazing creations that could never be built in survival- I choose to not use it.
If I did use EE3, my iron problems would be solved, I could generate blocks of iron faster than I could place them with a couple steve carts tree farms. Maybe throw in an ender pearl farm for the heck of it.
People should just play how they enjoy and stop trying to force their preferences on others.
If I did use EE3, my iron problems would be solved, I could generate blocks of iron faster than I could place them with a couple steve carts tree farms. Maybe throw in an ender pearl farm for the heck of it.
People should just play how they enjoy and stop trying to force their preferences on others.
Turning a stack of coal into a single diamond takes a full stack (that you can't burn so you need to also get an alternative fuel source), a couple of machines (3, generator, macerator and compressor) that take time to set up and you need quite a bit of power (atleast a full stack of charcoal for a single diamond in a generator). I don't see how that compares to an item that is so easy to get and doesn't require any fuel. And even that IC2 thing is IMHO borderline cheesy.[DOUBLEPOST=1359988238][/DOUBLEPOST]
People should stop whining about people who simply disagree with them. If you can't stand discussions about these why are you even visiting these topics? You feel the need to convey your opinion yet you complain that others do the same? If you don't want to get into a discussion about the pro's and con's about some mods simply stay out of the topics?
People should stop whining about people who simply disagree with them. If you can't stand discussions about these why are you even visiting these topics? You feel the need to convey your opinion yet you complain that others do the same? If you don't want to get into a discussion about the pro's and con's about some mods simply stay out of the topics?
With extremebiomes trees' running your whole establishment off charcoal isn't exactly hard anymore. Not to mention the lava pump stations everyone is making these days. But I digress, what's the difference between creative and a modded with a jet pack, a dozen quarries, maybe 10-20 (or a couple hundred in guudes case) turtles. EE simply gives you a way to deal with over flow resources as opposed to just throwing them all in the recycler and pushing for UUM. For those who think it's to much I'd be curious as to what you'd consider an equivalent price would be.
It's not about prices. I personally think it would be nice if a whole modpack would have a good balance between time and result. To get the "best" stuff you need to invest time, but it pays off. Currently there are huge issues there. Some materials (like diamonds) are too easy to get. IC2 power is too easy to generate with geothermals and solars for people to even consider reactors. Etc.
It's really noticable on servers. If you leave most people to their devices most of them just go for the easiest possible solution which means they just build a crapton of solars or geothermals, EE3 the diamonds they need for the MFSU and MassFab an then when they have their full set of quantum armor get bored because there is 'nothing to do'.
My concern is with servers and how certain mods throw the time / reward balance off whack. In the end it's simply not good for a server economy of everything is abundant because then you could just as well creative everything in. The whole sense of achievement goes away when someone builds a huge temple out of marble if you find out that that marble comes out of a condenser and used to be cobble.
The mods in FTB work very well together but unfortunately there is no 'umbrella' authority that considers the dangers of stuff getting either too hard or too easy. Game balance is a delicate thing and I hope some mod authers to check topics like these to see multiple views on the matter.
It's really noticable on servers. If you leave most people to their devices most of them just go for the easiest possible solution which means they just build a crapton of solars or geothermals, EE3 the diamonds they need for the MFSU and MassFab an then when they have their full set of quantum armor get bored because there is 'nothing to do'.
My concern is with servers and how certain mods throw the time / reward balance off whack. In the end it's simply not good for a server economy of everything is abundant because then you could just as well creative everything in. The whole sense of achievement goes away when someone builds a huge temple out of marble if you find out that that marble comes out of a condenser and used to be cobble.
The mods in FTB work very well together but unfortunately there is no 'umbrella' authority that considers the dangers of stuff getting either too hard or too easy. Game balance is a delicate thing and I hope some mod authers to check topics like these to see multiple views on the matter.
I disagree on that. Pretty much every mod can be exploited in some ways. How can be mob spawners counted legit for that matter??[DOUBLEPOST=1359991026][/DOUBLEPOST]
Yeah that would be nice but people are already complaining about GregTech being too hard and time consuming what's basically all about nice rewards for hard investments
I think there is a huge misunderstanding here - this whole "oh come on, the exchange rates are fine" argument is just a distraction!
The problem lies in the non-existing cost of the magical stone. I guess nobody here has a problem with being able to transmute stuff, a lot of mods let you do that. But within EE3 (to date) it just feels cheesy. Kill a few mobs, craft a stone that has 1500 (!) charges (standard settings), and you are good to go. This is just too simple and, as I said before, I don't even like to transmute dirt to sand like that. To me, it doesn't seem like a quality of life improvement, but like cheat mode.
And again, this ist just a personal opinion. I don't want to tell anybody how to play the game. I just want to take this discussion in a different direction - talking endlessly about exchange rates won't solve any argument (since what exchange rate feels "off" pretty much depends on your playstyle, at which point yout are in the game and which mods you use).
Isn't that what greg tech tries to introduce, increasing the time needed for things. Since that it really the only way to throttle advancement. You can make something require ridiculous amounts of any mine-able resource and eventually people will build enough quarries or turtles and no matter how much of any resource you require players can reduce the time needed to near nothing. With the addition of the centrifuge and the GT time based resource gathering that has been added, yet people don't seem to be responding well to that. Look at mindcrack they don't have EE yet have more of every resource than they really know what to do with. It's only been a couple of months and most of them are or could be in quantum, and they have GT. I see no difference between a marble palace made from condensed cobble or a marble palace made from a mystcraft dense ore age, or a dozen quarries out in the ocean, or even really mining laser'ing it.
@Tolgrimm
The stone also requires smooth stone, iron and gold. So you have to at least have a furnace and do some mining near the bottom. It seems as though your main irritant is with how long the minium stone lasts. What if it took damage when crafting as well, since that is kind of a transmutation?
@Tolgrimm
The stone also requires smooth stone, iron and gold. So you have to at least have a furnace and do some mining near the bottom. It seems as though your main irritant is with how long the minium stone lasts. What if it took damage when crafting as well, since that is kind of a transmutation?
Yes, but in the wrong way. Complexity is good, but it should not be artificial like gregtech does by just requiring you to let a bunch of quarries mine for days on a row. There is a fine line between complexity, expensiveness and something becoming tedious. Forestry and TE are in that regard IMHO much better mods than IC2 and especially GregTech. It's good that mods allow you to build complex stuff. The recipies themselves should not be tedious. And recipies should be expensive because it would make sense, and not require a Nether star just because that's some wierd definition of 'hardcore'.
IMHO it would be nice if, when the ultimate pack comes out, it's tailored towards servers and gives the users a good progression from coal-fired engines to the 'best' in the line. This balance is a non-issue when it comes to single player (because you can just edit the configs / pick the pack you like best) but when it comes to rented servers pretty much 99% will just have the default settings and those should be done 'right'.[DOUBLEPOST=1359992995][/DOUBLEPOST]
IMHO items like these should not exist on a server at all. There is a distinct reasoning behind recipies that require ender pearls and blaze rods. Being able to create these from blaze powder or iron throws all the balancing completely off-whack.
Well, since virtually nothing in Minecraft "wears out" and needs to be replaced (in fact, the only "destructive natural force" in the overworld are creepers), you will eventually gain excessive resources that you won't know what to do with, no matter what mods you have installed. Some mods like GregTech just like to try and delay this point in time as much as possible for extended gameplay, while others want to give you everything fairly quickly so you can play with it all.
If every machine block had durability, then it would be another matter, but then it would also be tedious to replace all the warn out machines.
If every machine block had durability, then it would be another matter, but then it would also be tedious to replace all the warn out machines.
I don't think GT adds any more complexity than what already exists. Before it we still went into NEI, then drilled down through the various components needed, built the extended machines needed for said components etc, etc. I remember the first time I went to create a forestry farm, needed carpenter, then fabricator, then had to make engines, fuel for those engines, then pipes, then humus. Then I had to power up those new machines with even more engines, to make more components to make a simple tree farm. I don't see that as any more complex than what GT adds. The only difference is that there are blocks in GT that simply take time and no amount of crafting or smart wiring or pipeing makes them any faster. But even then, as etho showed in the first server rendition, even the time aspect can be overcome with enough of the same block. As for balancing, you might want to also include mystcraft in with those mods "Not for a server", as a All time Day world with enough solar panels can spit out UUM like it's nothing, but then they'd just move to the nether. I can't agree with any kind of balance argument if more than one mod is being considered at any one time. Like Azanor says there's no way for him to balance it for all the mods out there, so he balances to vanilla, and if you're playing vanilla MC, EE lines up nicely.
@Golrith, nah we'd just set up systems to auto craft replacements, and store them near what they're to replace, some kind of indicator, and boom, you wouldn't even notice them wearing down.
@Golrith, nah we'd just set up systems to auto craft replacements, and store them near what they're to replace, some kind of indicator, and boom, you wouldn't even notice them wearing down.
The whole point of balance is that you can't consider just one mod at a time. Because any mods, if just used by itself, it 'balanced'. The interaction between mods is where the problem lies. But if the author of a mod refuses to take FTB into account then perhaps it has no place in an FTB pack.
I thought about this a bit more, especially what my man irritant with EE3 is. It's not really the simplicity of it all (though I still dislike it), but the fact that it is so... boring (lacking a better word at the moment).
Several mods could be considered OP, and for a good reason. But I still like them.
Thaumcraft lets you do powerful stuff, but you need to build things, research a huge amount of things, automate your golems... it's engaging and interesting.
Soul Shards can give you more resources than you'll ever need. But you need to hunt down loads of enemies, you can craft a special sword with a special enchantment, you can build spawners that are quite unlike vanilla ones, those let you build awesome factories, etc.
Everyone of those mods is "OP" in its own way, it will never be balanced - and that's not necessary (though I'm still against making everything as easy as possible to promote a mod) . EE3 in its current state (and I know there is more coming down the line) is nothing like those other mods. You craft a stone with some materials and... there's your powerful alchemical item that natural philosophers were after for centuries. You don't need anything else to transmute a huge variety of items... no further tools, no workshop, no research. Really?
Maybe in the future I'll reconsider my opinion - but right now, EE3 to me is more of a built in cheat tool than anything else for that very reason.
So far ive not used the stone much for transmutation of valuables, perhaps a few times to make diamond sout of gold, and a couple other times to do the inverse.
Ive used it a ton for convenience... for exmaple i live nowhere near a single birch tree, yet birch is my favorite type of tree, so i transmute a sapling.
Ive done the same with ink sacks, cyan dye, cactus green, and specially obsidian, because obsidian might be infinite, but my time is very limited and i have to get the most of what little hours i get to play per week.
I dont consider it OP, buit i do agree there should be a cost, a recharge, a tax of some sort.
I mean, 1 diamond = 4 gold = 1 diamond, but the convenience factor is also something that should be taken into account (and paid for). Sort of like shipping when buying online....
Ive used it a ton for convenience... for exmaple i live nowhere near a single birch tree, yet birch is my favorite type of tree, so i transmute a sapling.
Ive done the same with ink sacks, cyan dye, cactus green, and specially obsidian, because obsidian might be infinite, but my time is very limited and i have to get the most of what little hours i get to play per week.
I dont consider it OP, buit i do agree there should be a cost, a recharge, a tax of some sort.
I mean, 1 diamond = 4 gold = 1 diamond, but the convenience factor is also something that should be taken into account (and paid for). Sort of like shipping when buying online....