Disabling Vanilla Tools over tinkers

[goreae]

You only disable vanilla tools if you want TiCo to be the main tool mod. And that's purely an arbitrary decision. Pack makers do it because they think it's prudent. Making other tools useless might be the goal within it's self that or the pack maker prefers TiCo and doesn't care if other tool have been made useless.

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Which can work quite well. That's done in regrowth and it works quite well. It actually adds to the immersion quite a bit. It also works quite well in agrarian skies and magic farm, because it uses iguana tweaks to make a tiering system and it really brings the pack together. If implemented right, it adds to immersion and feels natural to only have the one system of tools and have that sort of progression. It also mostly works well in packs with some sort of story in it, as the single tool system does feed immersion and gets the player closer to the story that's being told.

In infinity evolved, it seems kinda silly. Because there is no story, there is no guided progression, and there's no tiering system. Once you get a small smeltery and a bucket, you can get pretty much any material in vanilla tinkers. So what's the point of disabling all but stone tools? And even going as far as to nerf stone tools, halving their durability. It just seems rather pointless to me.

 

[Azzanine]

Which can work quite well. That's done in regrowth and it works quite well. It actually adds to the immersion quite a bit. It also works quite well in agrarian skies and magic farm, because it uses iguana tweaks to make a tiering system and it really brings the pack together. If implemented right, it adds to immersion and feels natural to only have the one system of tools and have that sort of progression. It also mostly works well in packs with some sort of story in it, as the single tool system does feed immersion and gets the player closer to the story that's being told.

In infinity evolved, it seems kinda silly. Because there is no story, there is no guided progression, and there's no tiering system. Once you get a small smeltery and a bucket, you can get pretty much any material in vanilla tinkers. So what's the point of disabling all but stone tools? And even going as far as to nerf stone tools, halving their durability. It just seems rather pointless to me.

The point is that it's done for the sake of it? What other point should there be? The pack maker wants to force expert players through TiCo because reasons.

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[goreae]

The point is that it's done for the sake of it?

That's the point I'm trying to make here actually. It seems like tinkers is forced just because they can. It's something that a lot of "overhaul" type packs do, so it seems they shoehorned that mechanic in because expert mode is an overhaul type pack.

What other point should there be?

Balance, immersion, lore, unification. Basically any reason but "because we can".

The pack maker wants to force expert players through TiCo because reasons.

But what are those reasons? In expert mode, there seems to be absolutely no good reason to force the player to use tinkers construct, which is exactly my point.

 

[GreenZombie]

As an alternative, imagine if Expert Mode actually disabled tinkers tools in favor of tools from other mods.

Imagine the drama from players who have their day one infinite durability, fortune III tools taken away and now actually have to work to get a mining drills, axes of the stream, primal crushers, etc.

The Expert Mode team had a chance to actually make an interesting pack, and went entirely the opposite way, all but forcing people to use the easiest most OP tools, and then just ramping up the grind to compensate.

 

[ratchet freak]

it would be interesting to see a pack not use tinkers as the main tool mod. And would shine a bit more light on the various tools of other mods that just can't compete with tinkers unless they become even more OP.

 

[goreae]

As an alternative, imagine if Expert Mode actually disabled tinkers tools in favor of tools from other mods.

I actually mentioned that earlier. Not as an outright disable, but I said maybe gate it later in the game, forcing players to use tools from other mods if they want to get into tinkers. I think that would be a much better way to go about it, as it would actually promote diversity instead of discouraging it.

Imagine the drama from players who have their day one infinite durability, fortune III tools taken away and now actually have to work to get a mining drills, axes of the stream, primal crushers, etc.

A great argument to this: "It's expert mode. It's meant to be hard. Suck it up."

The Expert Mode team had a chance to actually make an interesting pack, and went entirely the opposite way, all but forcing people to use the easiest most OP tools, and then just ramping up the grind to compensate.

For the most part they did. Forcing tinkers though I think was the worst part. I mean I started this thread because I wanted to at least have the option to use vanilla type tools, but considering it, I now believe that tinkers really should be gated further down.

it would be interesting to see a pack not use tinkers as the main tool mod. And would shine a bit more light on the various tools of other mods that just can't compete with tinkers unless they become even more OP.

Tinkers is used in every pack ever because people love tinkers. But yeah, it easily overshadows other tools from other mods. Yeah, you could get a mining drill from immersive engineering, but a diodiesel setup is just not worth the effort when you have a cobalt hammer that runs on RF and is drowning in redstone.

 

[goreae]

A good method to gate tinkers later on is to disable the tool station and make the tool forge require some wyvern or draconic cores. You can even change the output to be the manyllyn tool forge variant (no different from the iron block one, just aesthetic.) to make the recipe make some visual sense. This way you can't make any tinkers stuff until much later in the game. So you have to use other types of tools until you get to that point. Of course a lot of people are still going to abandon their other tools for tinkers, but they'll still have other stuff available. Like the blood magic tool forger is actually really cool. Once you get a ritual of binding, you can make one and it can become a multitool superweapon. It can mine dirt and stone really quick, it has a silk touch upgrade, it can mine in a large radius, and even with all that, I've yet to get it above 10k LP per cast, and each cast lasts a decent amount of time.

 

[Azzanine]

I guess the pack dev seems to think TiCo is hard. It really isn't, it's why people like the mod. Certain tool combos just can't be beat.
To a point where the creator has toned down their effectiveness in the re written 1.8.9 version. However this could be because all the features aren't implemented.
I think TiCo tools is in because of the normal mode. People can't do without it for their OP early game tools but when it came to expert mode they had to figure out what to do with TiCo. The tools are easier but they tied in some of the tech to the smeltery. One cruel thing they could have done is have patterns require extra trees varnish and glue.

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[goreae]

I guess the pack dev seems to think TiCo is hard. It really isn't, it's why people like the mod. Certain tool combos just can't be beat.
To a point where the creator has toned down their effectiveness in the re written 1.8.9 version. However this could be because all the features aren't implemented.
I think TiCo tools is in because of the normal mode. People can't do without it for their OP early game tools but when it came to expert mode they had to figure out what to do with TiCo. The tools are easier but they tied in some of the tech to the smeltery. One cruel thing they could have done is have patterns require extra trees varnish and glue.

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I know why ticon is in the pack, and I don't disagree with them being in the pack at all, I just disagree with the decision to force ticon tools. It seems unnecessary and counterintuitive.