Difference between Torch, Sulfur Torch and Aluminum Torch?

[NTaylor]

Do you know if the amount of goo produced is proportional to the number of torches, or am I wasting resources by having a tall column of them?

I never really tested it though I am fairly sure that it is directly proportional (2 torches produces 2x as much as 1, 4 produce 2x as much as 2) as mine seemed to have a fairly good output filling up a gold chest in not that long not sure on the exact rate of drop though but I believe each torch has an independent timer for drops not all of them linked.

Or you could try placing the wooden golem on a relay instead of a chest so it would automatically go into the system without needing redstone pulses.

I never really automated mine as I didn't have that much need for it but that would work better but I was unsure whether golems worked with things like relays or not.

 

[Daemonblue]

I believe the torches had something like a 1/200 chance of dropping the goo per tick, so yea, more torches = more goo.

 

[NTaylor]

I believe the torches had something like a 1/200 chance of dropping the goo per tick, so yea, more torches = more goo.

Given that that means every 200 ticks you should get 1 sulphur goo per torch that seems a bit high a probability as that would mean 1 every 10 seconds on a world/server with a perfect tick rate.

 

[Zmaster27]

seems like a good idea, i know i have a horrible time fighting skeletons (in fact i usually play on peaceful, but that will change come ultimate) so essentially a free bonemeal farm would be great

 

[PhilHibbs]

Here's my goo farm, I extended what I like to call the "consummate V" in the middle this evening after doing some Creeper hunting.

 

[Azerius]

My goo farm is fairly simple.
I was already using an underground wheat farm staffed by wood and straw golems, i just changed the light sources i was using to be sulfur torches.

 

[Daemonblue]

Couldn't you just do a simple 4x4 room and on the inside stack the torches straight up, then have something like a golem pick up all of the goo at the bottom? Or does goo not fall through torches?

 

[NTaylor]

Couldn't you just do a simple 4x4 room and on the inside stack the torches straight up, then have something like a golem pick up all of the goo at the bottom? Or does goo not fall through torches?

That works perfectly fine they drop through each other no problem as far as I know the only reason for that V shape the guy above made that I can think is that it would increase surface area by allowing use of the roof if you then build walls around that it would create an even bigger area but a 4x4 column should work perfectly

 

[Daemonblue]

Yes, but while it looks like that design would increase surface area it actually decreases the amount of torches that can be placed in that area, hence the question. As an example instead of doing a 4x4 you could do a 4x12 and get a 2x5 or 2x6 inside (depending on if you close the ends or not) With the 2x5 inside you will get place for 10 torches, but you can also place those torches on the other side as well for a total of 20 places to place torches. This makes the area's width 6, as it would be

X|XX|X

where x is torches and | is a block. with this the placement would look like

X|XX|X
X|XX|X
X|XX|X
X|XX|X

With the pyramid shown above you'd be gettting multiple layers where yu only get effective use of one side. From what I can see in the pic it comes out to being, from bottom to top

 X
X|X
 X
 
  X
 X|X
X|||X
 X|X
  X
 
   X
  X|X
 X|||X
X|||||X
 X|||X
  X|X
   X

Etc. If you don't see how that just gets more inefficient as you add to it then you quite simply don't grasp what's happening.

Having said that, if he only did it that way for looks as well as function then it's not as bad since it doesn't look too bad tbh, but if your sole goal is to maximize your space then it's a flawed design. Sadly, I don't think what I posted above can really be tweaked to be any more efficient due to how torches work.

As an example if you try to use four sides of this setup you end up with

X|XX|X
 X  X
 X  X
X|XX|X

which, as you can see, is filled with holes, if you try to fill those in you end up with

X|XX|X
XX|XX|
|XX|XX
X|XX|X

Which is essentially the first pattern with some of the rows shifted so it doesn't look like just a wall of torches

 

[NTaylor]

Just put this together in a couple of minutes (in creative mode to map it out) and this seems to me to be the most efficient design using every available surface on which to place a torch (this may be the same as your first diagram for a design because for some reason despite being a university student with A levels in maths and further maths I can't really visualise those X| diagrams very well) in the two minutes or so it took me to put together I got from this 4 sulphur goo. also in each of the corners of the cube I built there is room to put tubes out of the roof and a relay to attach a golem to.

 

[PhilHibbs]

First I just tried a single column of torches with blocks all around, this didn't produce much. So I guessed that goo spawned in the illuminated area around the torch, so I needed an open space, so that led me to the water flushing design with a single column in the middle covered in torches. Then I thought that the "consummate V" would allow more torches, while also being an interesting aesthetic. Eventually I will box it all in and line the inside wall with even more torches when I've killed enough creepers. I'll make a few designs in creative some day to see what works best in practice.

 

[NTaylor]

I have a plan to work out what is the best design using red power counters and item detectors. Essentially get each of the designs set up and somehow have the tubes set to discard the goo until I'm ready to start the test then hook up a red power counter to each of the lines that have the goo coming out of them and have golems dropping the goo into relays, then have a lamp for each of the designs. While not 100% accurate as the torches most likely have independent timers inside of them for the drops it is the most efficient method to determine the best design I can think of and short of decompiling the code the amount of goo I get from my design and the amount of time I ran the test for would give me an approximate amount of Goo/second(or minute if that is a low number) for the design.

 

[WTFFFS]

"They have a 1/256th chance of dropping from the torch ever 37 seconds. (Yes i know those are weird numbers) "
Direct quote from the Xycraft thread on MCF by Andrew2448 who is Xycraft's PR guy.
Or at least those were the numbers a version or 2 ago whether they have changed or not who knows.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Does the drop chance depend on how much space there is around the torch? If it's something like this:

if rand(256) = 1
  x,y,z=random location within torch illumination range
  if x,y,z is illuminated by this torch then
    spawn a bit of goo at x,y,z
  else
    don't spawn this bit of goo because the area is too constrained
  end
end

...then a tightly packed area isn't going to be as efficient per torch as a more spaced out design. Since sulfur isn't exactly easy to get unless you have a decent creeper farm, efficiency per torch is important.
If it's more like this:

if rand(256) = 1
  find an x,y,z position that is illuminated by this torch
  spawn a bit of goo at x,y,z
end

...then tightly packed designs with as many torches as possible crammed in are as efficient as designs with open spaces.

 

[NTaylor]

Does the drop chance depend on how much space there is around the torch? If it's something like this:

if rand(256) = 1
  x,y,z=random location within torch illumination range
  if x,y,z is illuminated by this torch then
    spawn a bit of goo at x,y,z
  else
    don't spawn this bit of goo because the area is too constrained
  end
end

...then a tightly packed area isn't going to be as efficient per torch as a more spaced out design. Since sulfur isn't exactly easy to get unless you have a decent creeper farm, efficiency per torch is important.
If it's more like this:

if rand(256) = 1
  find an x,y,z position that is illuminated by this torch
  spawn a bit of goo at x,y,z
end

...then tightly packed designs with as many torches as possible crammed in are as efficient as designs with open spaces.

Without either decompiling the code to check or running a test it is a bit hard to say, I cant ATM because I don't have much time but either later today or tomorrow I am thinking of doing tests to see this which for your question will consist of 4 spread out torches (about 31 blocks from each other so that they are completely not affecting each other (Sulphur torches have 15 light level so that will completely separate them)) and also a room with 4 torches as close as possible to each other and see if over time I get approximately the same output (maybe an hour or so a piece)

Edit: Also while I remember you can also get sulphur from TE pulverisers by pulverising netherack you have a 10% chance to get a sulphur or with blaze rods a 50% chance and using an induction smelter to make nether brick from netherack and soul sand has a 25% chance to give one. Then the sulphur you get from TE is cooked to give you two sulphur (a different item that looks kinda like a sulphur dust but is still called sulphur and is ore dict compatible for making the torches) so you don't really need a big creeper farm to do it.

Also... ENGLISH SPELLING OF SULPHUR FTW

 

[PhilHibbs]

A single 1x1 room with 1 torch vs a 31x31 room with 1 torch would reveal which of the above pseudo-codes is closer to the truth. If my guess is right, the 31x31 room would produce a lot more than the 1x1.

I'm new to mods, I haven't built a Pulveriser yet, or any TE items actually, I've only really explored IC2 and CC so far. And I only went to the Nether once so far to get some Glowstone for my recycler.

Oh, and although I also prefer "sulfur" and "pulveriser" myself, I always use the in-game names for the items to avoid confusion.

 

[WTFFFS]

Depending on which pack you are playing on you have other options for Sulphur the already mentioned TE, also Railcraft has Sulphur Ore spawns around lava in Extreme Hills biomes and if it's the Mindcrack Pack, Gregtech includes several way to gain Sulphur during processing, frankly 1:1 from gunpowder kinda sucks large hairy donkey nuts

 

[PhilHibbs]

Ooh, where are the donkeys? I haven't seen them! I'm looking forward to that mod!

 

[NTaylor]

A single 1x1 room with 1 torch vs a 31x31 room with 1 torch would reveal which of the above pseudo-codes is closer to the truth. If my guess is right, the 31x31 room would produce a lot more than the 1x1.

I'm new to mods, I haven't built a Pulveriser yet, or any TE items actually, I've only really explored IC2 and CC so far. And I only went to the Nether once so far to get some Glowstone for my recycler.

Oh, and although I also prefer "sulfur" and "pulveriser" myself, I always use the in-game names for the items to avoid confusion.

I only spell it sulphur because of my years of studying chemistry has ingrained the old spelling of the word onto my brain from before IUPAC were arses and changed its propper spelling to the US one and even with that my GB Keyboard still underlines sulfur with a red line and says it is spelt wrong and sulphur is correct.

Anyway despite that minor rant on the correct spelling of chemicals I have rarely seen mods that code something that does it based upon avaliable space as you suggested and the only thing that comes to mind is IC2 windmills (and perhaps watermills cant quite remember) but I would imagine that that kind of code would cause more lag per torch than it was worth so would be avoided in favour of a lower average production rate. On top of that even if there is a reduction with reduced nearby space you should really consider initial startup cost instead of simply having one golem manage (I think their range is 10 so assume only covering the walls on a 5x5 cube you would have maximum of 4080 torches if I have worked it out right assuming you found an area of flat bedrock at y=1 and build all the way to the top of the world or basically having one golem only able to manage a much smaller maximum around 10 if you spread them out I am fairly sure the 4080 would be a lot more efficient.

 

[Daemonblue]

Just put this together in a couple of minutes (in creative mode to map it out) and this seems to me to be the most efficient design using every available surface on which to place a torch (this may be the same as your first diagram for a design because for some reason despite being a university student with A levels in maths and further maths I can't really visualise those X| diagrams very well) in the two minutes or so it took me to put together I got from this 4 sulphur goo. also in each of the corners of the cube I built there is room to put tubes out of the roof and a relay to attach a golem to.

Spoiler

Other than the walls surrounding it yes, that is what I drew in the diagram, stacked high. Basically the diagrams were on a per floor basis, and I do realize some people have trouble visualizing stuff likes those, so I was actually about to post a picture this morning since I could get on :X


Also, regarding the sulphur-sulfur thing, I'm more used to the spelling Sulphur myself due to there being a city with the same name nearby that also happens to smell like the stuff -_- And yes, this is in the US.