December News

[Kane Hart]

I don't reply to these often but LOL. So much miss information all around it's great. One no follow ups here on news... The main news item like most leaves more questions then answers... People claiming FTB has a massive team when I think Slow has stated multiple times it is in fact not big at all but quite slow and their running out of blood to work on packs and one the main reasons things been taking time.. But don't quote me on that it was like over a year ago I'm sure things have gotten much better I mean check out the 1.10 expert pack err i mean 1.11 oh crap I meant 1.12.. Okay I will shut up now

Either way Slow once again the PR the face of FTB is once again dead and not seen when it needs to be. You need a new sort of PR person at least someone enjoys talking and giving out info someone who knows the ins and outs of what is happening and does not mind spilling a few beans and not a whole bunch of youtubers/streamers giving us a bunch of 2nd hand info.

 

[Magzie]

I don't reply to these often but LOL. So much miss information all around it's great. One no follow ups here on news... The main news item like most leaves more questions then answers... People claiming FTB has a massive team when I think Slow has stated multiple times it is in fact not big at all but quite slow and their running out of blood to work on packs and one the main reasons things been taking time.. But don't quote me on that it was like over a year ago I'm sure things have gotten much better I mean check out the 1.10 expert pack err i mean 1.11 oh crap I meant 1.12.. Okay I will shut up now

Either way Slow once again the PR the face of FTB is once again dead and not seen when it needs to be. You need a new sort of PR person at least someone enjoys talking and giving out info someone who knows the ins and outs of what is happening and does not mind spilling a few beans and not a whole bunch of youtubers/streamers giving us a bunch of 2nd hand info.

PR guy...rofl..that is funny. https://forum.feed-the-beast.com/XenStaff You will see under there that he is FTB Founder. Might want to do a little research first next time. Also I don't need to point out your jabs at expert mode are misplaced.

 

[Kane Hart]

PR guy...rofl..that is funny. https://forum.feed-the-beast.com/XenStaff You will see under there that he is FTB Founder. Might want to do a little research first next time. Also I don't need to point out your jabs at expert mode are misplaced.

I know who slow is and he knows who I am we have had these chats before... My point is the entire FTB stuff is a disaster it does not have the good grace it once did. Well their private special club still exists of what is left of it

 

[egor66]

I dont comment often here but this is getting silly, when first reading the op had the same reaction then after a second it started to sink in, yes there are some mods still to be released for 1.12 so I can totally understand the logic of waiting a couple of weeks, & dont forget its the same for mod devs, they too have families & commitments over the upcoming holiday season, its way to easy to take a cheap shot at people that you will never meet in real life, this is a gaming community after all & most of the work is done free of any charges & restrictions, personally I think we as a whole should be thanking the people that give there free time to create mods & packs for use the end users to play.

 

[mti_]

I dont comment often here but this is getting silly, when first reading the op had the same reaction then after a second it started to sink in, yes there are some mods still to be released for 1.12 so I can totally understand the logic of waiting a couple of weeks, & dont forget its the same for mod devs, they too have families & commitments over the upcoming holiday season, its way to easy to take a cheap shot at people that you will never meet in real life, this is a gaming community after all & most of the work is done free of any charges & restrictions, personally I think we as a whole should be thanking the people that give there free time to create mods & packs for use the end users to play.

Undiscerning comments such as this are detrimental to any community effort.
No one has taken any cheap shots. No one is asking volunteer staff not to spend the holidays with their families.
Quite the opposite; everyone taking the time to come to the FTB forums for news and taking more time to post feedback has a vested interest in contributing.

If members of the community are getting increasingly agitated with the way that they handle external communication that is a real threat to their product.
It is not something to be taken lightly.
Ask EA how easy it is to lose consumer faith and good will because of mismanagement. Of course that is an extreme example but it makes the point I believe.
Just because people are not paid does not mean that professional conduct is impossible. We have so many outstanding open source, non-profit, and community run projects.
I count FTB as one of those. A good effort should not be allowed to falter because of issues gradually creeping in, eroding quality, effectively devaluing the work done previously.
This is where we, the community, come in. We are here to scrutinize and allow them a glimpse into the mind of their users. Imagine how many more there are who can not be bothered to take the time and post feedback.

It is appreciated that you want to say something nice and supportive but you can not allow an environment to fester where critical voices are shunned because a part of the fan base is brown nosing.

As someone who has to deal with this stuff in a professional capacity I must say that you simply must not announce a product multiple times over, scrap it, re-announce it and then delay it again.
I am sure they had good reasons why they did it, each and every time.
I am not arguing the merits of these decisions.
However, you keep your consumer base away from these struggles.
If you do not know when it will be ready then you say "We don't know when it's ready".
They used to do this in the past... Giving ETAs and then not keeping them is a new thing and I for one think it would be wise to change the information policy back to what it was.
Then you have the luxury of making announcements that actually excite people when you finally have something solid to share.
On page #1 of any PR/Marketing guide book you will find "Do not make promises you can not keep".

Apart from the issue of miscommunication I find the idea interesting of maybe re-evaluating what constitutes FTB's staple mods. Maybe some of the ones that have been around forever could be changed out for some newcomers.
Not (just) to help with accelerating the release schedule but to keep things fresh.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

I wonder if anyone has kept count of the number of times an agitated member has used the word "promise" when referring to things the FTB Team has said, versus the number of times the FTB Team has actually said it.

 

[mti_]

I wonder if anyone has kept count of the number of times an agitated member has used the word "promise" when referring to things the FTB Team has said, versus the number of times the FTB Team has actually said it.

There is no point in splitting hairs. They may not have used the word "promise" but an announcement is an annouccement.
Why make one at all if you do not wish for people to pay attention to it or if you have no idea if you can fulfill it?
It might not bother you but some it obviously does.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129115341

Skip to 1:04:10

That is an announcement, no matter the disclaimers attached to it.
It is over half a year later now and it is still not released.
From a professional communications stand point there is no other conclusion than "this information was release prematurely". It isn't even the same ballpark.
That could have been handled better.

 

[lenscas]

There is no point in splitting hairs. They may not have used the word "promise" but an announcement is an annouccement.
Why make one at all if you do not wish for people to pay attention to it or if you have no idea if you can fulfill it?
It might not bother you but some it obviously does.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129115341

Skip to 1:04:10

That is an announcement, no matter the disclaimers attached to it.
It is over half a year later now and it is still not released.
From a professional communications stand point there is no other conclusion than "this information was release prematurely". It isn't even the same ballpark.
That could have been handled better.

The problem is that if they don't announce anything people get angry at them for them not saying anything. FTB is pretty much forced to choose between bad and worse.

I guess they could say they are experimenting instead of making a pack but that isn't a nice option as well.

 

[mti_]

The problem is that if they don't announce anything people get angry at them for them not saying anything. FTB is pretty much forced to choose between bad and worse.

Oh, absolutely.
I am merely trying to suggest that the "bad" is announcing something that you can adhere to, even if it isn't popular.
Because the "worse" is making a statement that you have to go back on.

AoE and ATMR:E show that it was possible to make very enjoyable 1.10 expert packs. They must have had internal reasons not to publish one.
If there is even a remote chance for that to happen it needs to be reflected in your external communication.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

No. No, I very VERY strongly disagree - it is not “splitting hairs”.

There is a very important difference in my opinion, and it is the differing opinions on whether there IS a difference that forms the crux of many of the disagreements about this topic. So I’d say it’s pretty important, and not to be simply dismissed out of hand.

 

[mti_]

No. No, I very VERY strongly disagree - it is not “splitting hairs”.

There is a very important difference in my opinion, and it is the differing opinions on whether there IS a difference that forms the crux of many of the disagreements about this topic. So I’d say it’s pretty important, and not to be simply dismissed out of hand.

You seem to get hung up on the phrasing I used and are not discussing the topic of the conversation. This is known as the informal fallacy "ignoratio elenchi".
For the sake of argument and to keep things moving along simply assume/pretend I never used the word "promise" but something else, e.g. "announcement" or "statement" and see if my argument still holds any merit.

Remember, I am not arguing against delaying development in favor of higher quality products, but I am trying to argue that the language used in FTB's external communication could use a little "spin".

Well written releases are as much about what not to say as they are about what you do say.
Give this one a whirl:
"We are glad to announce that we will be releasing FTB's 1.12 kitchen sink pack 'Revelation' as a christmas present for you to play over the holidays. Keeping with tradition we brought you the ever popular Direwolf20 pack, followed by our pack for everyone and we are working hard to have our 1.12 Expert mode pack, 'Continuum', ready early next year."

This contains exactly the same information, would obviously need some polish but all negative connotations are gone.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

Oh, not at all. I’m more hung up on the sense of entitlement some folk seem to have. Which includes taking announcements made in good faith and holding them up as fixed and firm agreements with which to beat those that made them around the head with.

You seem to be hung up on trying to make yourself sound intellectually superior, but we’ll just skate on past that.

Perhaps if the “FTB team” were actually a company that employed a PR team, they could spend time trying to make sure all their statements are perfectly polished, rather than a group of passionate people who have actual jobs and lives and things to do. If you’re angling for a job, hit them up, they might appreciate it. Otherwise, I don’t think the argument holds any water considering the status of the community and the team and all those involved.

All things considered, I’m very grateful we have people working as hard as they do, who haven’t decided (and it would be quite understandable if they did) to - in the face of the kind of comments we’ve seen recently - gone “screw this, it ain’t worth the bother.”

It’s not “brown-nosing” when it’s showing some goddamn appreciation (especislly when it’s always the negative that people focus on) and letting them know there are people who do appreciate them.

 

[mti_]

Oh, not at all. I’m more hung up on the sense of entitlement some folk seem to have. Which includes taking announcements made in good faith and holding them up as fixed and firm agreements with which to beat those that made them around the head with.

I fail to see anyone being "beat around the head". If you make an announcement be ready to be held to it, that is the point of making one in the first place.
All things considered I think all participants in this discussion have been/are very civil when compared to any other online community.

You seem to be hung up on trying to make yourself sound intellectually superior, but we’ll just skate on past that.

This could be understood as a personal attack, was I that kind of person. If the way I express myself makes you feel intellectually inferior that says more about you than it does about me. I could do without you insisting to criticize my writing. Try to stay on topic.

Perhaps if the “FTB team” were actually a company that employed a PR team, they could spend time trying to make sure all their statements are perfectly polished, rather than a group of passionate people who have actual jobs and lives and things to do. If you’re angling for a job, hit them up, they might appreciate it. Otherwise, I don’t think the argument holds any water considering the status of the community and the team and all those involved.

FTB has some full-time, payed employees if I am not mistaken. Even if not trying to adhere to best practises and professional conduct is what makes small community projects flourish (and eventually be bought by amazon...).

All things considered, I’m very grateful we have people working as hard as they do, who haven’t decided (and it would be quite understandable if they did) to - in the face of the kind of comments we’ve seen recently - gone “screw this, it ain’t worth the bother.”

It’s not “brown-nosing” when it’s showing some goddamn appreciation (especislly when it’s always the negative that people focus on) and letting them know there are people who do appreciate them.

I am very grateful too, and what can be considered "a fan". Why else would I make the effort? Again, I do not see any reason for them to drop their work because a handful of people are disappointed. With an attitude like that you will never see a public project through.
I show my appreciation by contributing my spare time to give professional advice on a front they are obviously struggling with.
You are the one trying to shame people into not giving criticism. I do not agree.
You can be thankful and yet have some constructive criticism to add. Being able to take that on board is required in order to succeed, and that is what I want them to do.

I am happy to take your feedback on my proposed angle but if you continue to take offense with me personally or the mere fact that I posted anything that can be considered criticism I will leave it at that so that this thread does not lose direction.

 

[Magzie]

FTB team has said a number of times they never give time tables of when a pack is to be released. Update and town halls are just to inform of plans. Anyone taking something the FTB team has said as a release date or update is mistaken. Saying they would like the pack to be out by Christmas doesn't mean the release date is Christmas..

 

[Watchful11]

I'll second what Magzie said. We use news posts and town halls to detail our expected plans, but they can change at any time based on any number of factors. We decided a while ago that we would rather put some news out about our progress on things rather than just keeping quiet until we released something, but we weren't going to make any hard promises. You're free to complain about our approach (as long as you don't break the forum rules against personal attacks), but it's not going to make packs come out any sooner.

 

[CaptPanda]

How about this for an idea, instead of doing another kitchen sink pack, why not make an expert lite pack? The very few people who have played my packs back in the day know that I tried packs with 10 mods or less, and then intergrate them with each other expert style.

I would suggest with the mods you can confirm working, you make a mini expert pack. There are too many KS packs as is, so do scrap that. Just a small pack with harder recipes would be enough. Something like IC2 circuits needing pneumaticraft circuit boards as a prerequisite, or similarly trivial recipies that add a form of progression.

 

[Magzie]

How about this for an idea, instead of doing another kitchen sink pack, why not make an expert lite pack? The very few people who have played my packs back in the day know that I tried packs with 10 mods or less, and then intergrate them with each other expert style.

I would suggest with the mods you can confirm working, you make a mini expert pack. There are too many KS packs as is, so do scrap that. Just a small pack with harder recipes would be enough. Something like IC2 circuits needing pneumaticraft circuit boards as a prerequisite, or similarly trivial recipies that add a form of progression.

pneumaticraft as i remember isn't updated to 1.12. There is a port but again like i have said before no way of nothing how stable the port is also the expert pack has been planned for months now and the KS packs as well it would be moving backwards to start on a whole new pack. Also as i have said they had always planned for a KS pack with expert.

 

[CaptPanda]

pneumaticraft as i remember isn't updated to 1.12. There is a port but again like i have said before no way of nothing how stable the port is also the expert pack has been planned for months now and the KS packs as well it would be moving backwards to start on a whole new pack. Also as i have said they had always planned for a KS pack with expert.

Pneumaticraft was only an example, does not mean we use that quite so literally.

What I mean, is that from the mods in the kitchen sink, use minimal minetweaking to say that the beginning of one mod needs one item from the lategame of another mod, and leave it at that. Tiny changes, but gives a progression.

Bonus points if it makes sense logically.

 

[Magzie]

Pneumaticraft was only an example, does not mean we use that quite so literally.

What I mean, is that from the mods in the kitchen sink, use minimal minetweaking to say that the beginning of one mod needs one item from the lategame of another mod, and leave it at that. Tiny changes, but gives a progression.

Bonus points if it makes sense logically.

All I know is one of the best and most popular Packs ever is Crash Landing....

 

[CaptPanda]

That is not a kitchen sink pack, I mean something that's an Age of Engineering lite. Something that has basic, basic recipe changes. Even a half-assed attempt of making cross-mod progression would be better than another KS pack, and thats something I can say I have experience in.