Dartcraft

[Hydra]

For all the people who are saying this mod is OP...
1. Personally, i like having the ability to use options that arent end of game. makes it a bit more enjoyable.
2. remember that this mod IS in beta and that balance isnt the biggest priority right now.

If something is "in beta" and "not balanced yet" I don't see why it should be included into a "production" pack.

As it stands Dartcraft completely breaks early power generation. Very early game the "best" engines used to be hobbyist engines at 1.6MJ/t each. Now it's Force engines that give 8MJ/t, require less expensive components, and don't need an infrastructure to create the fuel (unlike charcoal) because it's abundant.

You can now just plop down 3 force engines and an aq accumulator, have a quarry run at 24MJ/t (great speed) and basically power itself with the force gems it digs up. It completely removes the challenge of getting a decent power supply early game.

I think it's great to add cool mods to a pack but if a mod author just adds stuff that is MUCH cheaper just to get people use their mod (seriously, what else is the force engine there for? The mod doesn't even really use MJ so why does it add an engine? Yes, to get people to use the mod. If all modders would do this we'd end up being able to build anything from dirt and cobble in a year or so.

 

[Skyqula]

If something is "in beta" and "not balanced yet" I don't see why it should be included into a "production" pack.

As it stands Dartcraft completely breaks early power generation. Very early game the "best" engines used to be hobbyist engines at 1.6MJ/t each. Now it's Force engines that give 8MJ/t, require less expensive components, and don't need an infrastructure to create the fuel (unlike charcoal) because it's abundant.

You can now just plop down 3 force engines and an aq accumulator, have a quarry run at 24MJ/t (great speed) and basically power itself with the force gems it digs up. It completely removes the challenge of getting a decent power supply early game.

Have you tried an MFR tree farm with biofuel reactor(s) and generators? Puts those engines to shame, realy.

For "early game" we clockwork engines, great early game power that doesnt cost you anny fuel at all! We also have TE steam engines running at 4mj/t, not as efficient but alot faster! Together with the hobbyist steam engine they are all great treefarm kickstarters, wich in turn can feed a hobbyist/TE steam engine to run forever...

Also, whats so game breaking about there being an infinite loop with the quarry? A tree farm is an infinite powerloop aswell, do you have a problem with that? Heck a tree farm is an infinite powerloop 50 times more powerfull then the quarry + force engine. Now before you say that the quarry provides resources: the immense power generated from a treefarm can be used with a laser drill/mass fabricator to produce resources just the same and it does not require moving.

Talking about power loops, are you also fine with boilers? Because they allow for another infinite loop with the MFR oil fabricator. And thats not even talking about nether pumping lava or creating a lava age.

Honestly, getting power is easy and inevitable. The challenge is in finding wich path provides you with the best rewards/most enjoyable playing experience. You seem to think its force engines + quarry. I defenitly disagree and think its TiC hammer with MFR tree farm into laser drill. Because lets face it, a quarry is nice and all, but compared to targetted mining (rushing a laser drill) it realy isnt the be all and all thing it once was.

I think it's great to add cool mods to a pack but if a mod author just adds stuff that is MUCH cheaper just to get people use their mod (seriously, what else is the force engine there for? The mod doesn't even really use MJ so why does it add an engine? Yes, to get people to use the mod. If all modders would do this we'd end up being able to build anything from dirt and cobble in a year or so.

Honestly i coudnt care less about the force engine. I want the mod because of the clipboard, the unification pipes, the non random enchanting system, the vastly superior bags and lots of other features. That it adds a way to generate power? Cool addition, especially because his implementation is unique and actually a realy good gameplay mechanic (talking about the throttle here). The power generated from force gems? Realy not that special considering there are plenty of other options (see above) and its not all that renewable. Sure you can squeeze logs, but turning them into golden power sources into a boiler is significantly better. And thats ignoring that you need a forestry tree farm wich is significantly slower/more expensive, aswell as force trees being small trees which dont produce alot of logs to begin with.

Rereading my post, it looks like MFR is a much bigger offender then dartcraft. Interesting...

 

[Hydra]

Rereading my post, it looks like MFR is a much bigger offender then dartcraft. Interesting...

I think we were talking about Dartcraft. I do agree that MFR is rather 'cheap' in most regards, but that's a matter of another topic, not this one.If you like the mod, fine. In my opinion mods like these should not be added nilly willy to a pack if they're not balanced yet.

 

[RavynousHunter]

"Balanced" is a highly subjective term. In a pack with things like Compact/Advanced Solars, MFR's godly biofuel, the Ender Thermic Pump, TE magmatic engines, and a slew of other piss-easy power options, who's to say what's balanced and what isn't? If you wanna talk balance, I think MFR's biofuel is more broken than the Force Engines, since its 100% renewable, a breeze to automate, and can be used to produce an arseton of power.

Its the same BS that was said about XyCraft when it was in the 1.4.7 packs: its not finished, it shouldn't be in here. Thankfully, that's not up to you, that's up to the people who create the packs. Yes, they'll add mods that are made by their friends, but that's their choice. The FTB Launcher makes it more than easy to change any pack you want into a custom environment you enjoy. With a little config work, you can custom tailor almost everything to be just how you like it.

I, for one, find DartCraft to be a very fun and useful mod. The vastly superior enchanting alone makes the mod, if ya ask me. Not having to spend who knows how many levels, and thus time experience farming, while getting exactly what you want at a reasonable material cost seems like a really good idea, to me. Let's not even go into how wonderful the Power Drill is, once upgraded just the right way...and you're wearing an advanced nano chest plate.

 

[cynric]

Power generation is pretty easy, and to be honest, I'm glad there are more alternatives to early power besides lava (pumping the nether) and treefarms (MFS, forestry, Steve Carts) or getting lucky with spawns (Oil).

It was probably to early to include the mod, but I wouldn't want to miss it. It is pretty fun if you avoid all the imbalances and bugs it has at the moment.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Exactly. Besides, if ya think about it, we're helping to make these mods better, since we're acting as testers for newbie mods. We get to play with new toys, and the developers get critical feedback so they can improve their mod. Win-win!

 

[NJM1564]

It should also be noted that the guy who puts the FTB backs together loves this mod as is.

 

[draeath]

Hey, nobody forces you to use it

You can always void-pipe force crystals and be done with it

 

[RavynousHunter]

Hey, nobody forces you to use it

You can always void-pipe force crystals and be done with it

But...they're so pretty! I have a tendency to hoard things, can ya tell? XD

 

[Skyqula]

I think we were talking about Dartcraft. I do agree that MFR is rather 'cheap' in most regards, but that's a matter of another topic, not this one.If you like the mod, fine. In my opinion mods like these should not be added nilly willy to a pack if they're not balanced yet.

We are, but we are also talking about it being included in a modpack. A modpack wich has other mods like MFR and railcraft. And even if it wasnt in a modpack, it would still be compared to other mods. So for you arguments that dartcraft's force engine is supposedely OP i bring forward other options from the modpack to show you that it isnt.

 

[RavynousHunter]

We are, but we are also talking about it being included in a modpack. A modpack wich has other mods like MFR and railcraft. And even if it wasnt in a modpack, it would still be compared to other mods. So for you arguments that dartcraft's force engine is supposedely OP i bring forward other options from the modpack to show you that it isnt.

Hell, even if you think it is, nobody's forcing you to use it. I don't like GT's distillation tower for oil processing, even though it gives me some useful byproducts like methane, so I don't bother with it. Its...not all that hard to avoid things you don't like in a modpack that has an absolutely OBSCENE amount of options.

 

[Democretes]

Balance is really a matter of perspective. There's no official ruling on it. There's is no "Judge of Balance" or a "Book of Balance" to determine who's right or who's wrong. If someone thinks something is unbalanced or OP, that is there personal opinion on the matter. You just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Personally, I like Dartcraft. It adds a lot more "stuff" to do. More interesting armor, more power generation, more interesting fuel sources, and better enchanting which seems to be all the rage nowadays. To me, it's just more stuff to do. And, let's be honest, who doesn't like having more toys to play with?

 

[PierceSG]

Problem with those backpacks is the upgrade, ender packs, are incompatible with any FTB mod that uses enderchests. Which is all of them.

Don't you still have access to the vanilla enderchest recipe even with the Enderstorage installed? I do believe the Enderpack works with that?

 

[NJM1564]

Don't you still have access to the vanilla enderchest recipe even with the Enderstorage installed? I do believe the Enderpack works with that?

Pretty sure it's removed. Though there is a config option to re-enable it.

 

[Vauthil]

Pretty sure it's removed. Though there is a config option to re-enable it.

Yeah, the default is to remove it, but more recent versions of the Unleashed pack at least (where FTB includes DartCraft) has vanilla ender chest enabled because certain MFFS3 recipes require it.