Changing Machine Mod bye bye IC2?

[Chocohead]

Think too that the Ic2 Team an mainly gregT forgot About adding awesome New Stuff they focused just on updating for a very long time trying to fix all the issues that came with ic2exp

If they didn't add anything why does everyone complain there's no documentation? Experimental has added tonnes but people don't notice because they'd rather have the next new RF mod. There are more addons to IC2 now than when experimental started with a lot more range of content, even if IC2's "lack" of new stuff isn't your thing there's addons like IHL that can extend it like old Gregtech without overwriting anything.

And in terms of Greg, he last did something to IC2 on the 22nd March, 2014. That was build 433, now we're at 750.

 

[Type1Ninja]

@KingLemming - I realize this is a bit late, but I guess I totally misread the energy changes. I thought it was "100% EXTRA energy consumption for 2x speed (ie no penalty)," not "100% penalty." I am sorely mistaken.

TE is my favorite tech-core because it has such great compatibility with everything. It has a ton of different addons, and even more mods that are fantastic on their own but which also play really nicely with TE. If you're using IC2, you pretty much have access to IC2 addons. There are no other entire mods utilizing IC2's api specifically, while RF has mods like EnderIO.

 

[Chocohead]

There are no other entire mods utilizing IC2's api specifically

That is because it is the IC2 API for the IC2 mod. The RF API is the API for using RF power. Notice the difference? The statement itself is wrong because any more interfacing with EU uses it, as well as mods adding recipes using IC2 items can call the itemstacks directly and use it's crafting handler.

 

[Type1Ninja]

That is because it is the IC2 API for the IC2 mod. The RF API is the API for using RF power. Notice the difference? The statement itself is wrong because any more interfacing with EU uses it, as well as mods adding recipes using IC2 items can call the itemstacks directly and use it's crafting handler.

My argument is that RF has functionality outside of TE (like EIO, which is fully functional without TE), while IC2 is pretty much just IC2 and a couple addons like GraviSuite and GregTech. With RF, addons like Simply Jetpacks or Draconic Evolution work equally well with Buildcraft, Thermal Expansion, OR EnderIO. If I want GraviSuite, I NEED to download IC2.

 

[Padfoote]

My argument is that RF has functionality outside of TE (like EIO, which is fully functional without TE), while IC2 is pretty much just IC2 and a couple addons like GraviSuite and GregTech. With RF, addons like Simply Jetpacks or Draconic Evolution work equally well with Buildcraft, Thermal Expansion, OR EnderIO. If I want GraviSuite, I NEED to download IC2.

Because the APIs are completely different. I believe at one point KL said TE is a showcase of what can be done with the RF API. RF can stand without TE, yet EU cannot stand with IC2 due to how it is coded. It's two very different systems both in function and their code.

 

[Type1Ninja]

Because the APIs are completely different. I believe at one point KL said TE is a showcase of what can be done with the RF API. RF can stand without TE, yet EU cannot stand with IC2 due to how it is coded. It's two very different systems both in function and their code.

Exactly. And I like TE and the RF API more. They're similar enough to be compared (both are electricity systems), but different enough to have a favorite.

 

[Chocohead]

MJ used to require Buildcraft to use as well, as did UE and it's Volt-Amp system, it's the way the world used to work. The principle of a separate API for your power system just exposes it to be exploited. Just build a Big Reactor and power everything RF with that compared to IC2 that sets a framework of how EU should work in terms of production and use so addons can add to it appropriately.

 

[Reika]

(both are electricity systems).

A correction:

RF isn't electricity, it doesn't "fit" in RoC and GT. They shouldn't use it. End of story.

Redstone Flux IS NOT ELECTRICITY! Even KL says it's not.

 

[Type1Ninja]

MJ used to require Buildcraft to use as well, as did UE and it's Volt-Amp system, it's the way the world used to work. The principle of a separate API for your power system just exposes it to be exploited. Just build a Big Reactor and power everything RF with that compared to IC2 that sets a framework of how EU should work in terms of production and use so addons can add to it appropriately.

Solutions to the entire argument of "but that allows exploits," in order of easiness:
1. Follow some honor rules (I will not use a face roll power system before building a more interesting generator).
2. Change the configs.
3. Find a pack which changes the configs for you.
4. Just don't play with that mod.

Those are all great solutions; exploits can be fixed in a couple minutes using any of those methods.

You might say that none of those work on a server. To pre-empt that, I say: try to stop caring how other people play. You're loading undue stress onto yourself; the fact that other people may or may not be ruining their experience with an exploit really is their problem. You can make some superficial attempts to help, but beyond that you really aren't obligated to do anything.

EDIT:
RF may not BE electricity from a lore standpoint, but RF and electricity act the same in that they are both used to power machines. As I enjoy saying so much: Gameplay before lore, people.

 

[Chocohead]

Your list is the wrong order, don't play it should be at the top, can prove from experience.

Under your RF is electricity logic, coal is also electricity as there are mods that use it to power their machines.

 

[Type1Ninja]

Your list is the wrong order, don't play it should be at the top, can prove from experience.

Under your RF is electricity logic, coal is also electricity as there are mods that use it to power their machines.

As a system to power machines? Yes, coal is electricity. Maybe I misspoke in saying that RF is electricity, but arguing definitions does not convince me to like IC2 better. The fact stands that both are a general system for powering machines. I never said EVERYONE needs to like RF more, but I also don't like it when some people (oh how I want to point fingers) claim that all RF mods are facerolls and that IC2 is inherently better.

 

[Chocohead]

Never once did I say it was better (here at least ). I just don't like people talking rubbish about it when what they are saying is rubbish. We're all free to play with what we want and should be grateful we still can.

 

[Type1Ninja]

Never once did I say it was better (here at least ). I just don't like people talking rubbish about it when what they are saying is rubbish. We're all free to play with what we want and should be grateful we still can.

First: when I said, "I want to point fingers" I actually wasn't talking about you.
I'm not talking rubbish! I like RF better, and that is justified. I have reasoning, which I have detailed (maybe I have been a little argumentative, but again, I really want to point fingers and this is the next best thing).

 

[Chocohead]

If you're using IC2, you pretty much have access to IC2 addons. There are no other entire mods utilizing IC2's api specifically

You kinda did.

 

[Type1Ninja]

You kinda did.

Alright, I may have been misinformed. Is RoC the other mod using the IC2 API?

 

[Chocohead]

Alright, I may have been misinformed. Is RoC the other mod using IC2?

You said there is no other mod using IC2's API specifically, when Railcraft does for converting EU into charge and steam into EU, Extra Utilities uses it to allow energy nodes to accept EU, Binnie's mods all use EU, Immersive Engineering uses it to move EU in it's Factorio wires, and the list goes on. People seem to think IC2 has formed it's own little bubble of addons, when it's still quite widely used as electricity in other mods.

People also like to compare RF and IC2 as the same thing which is totally wrong both in terms of how they were initially created and intended to be used. And that's ignoring the inherent difference of EU's fixed tiers to RF's floaty use of power production and consumption.

 

[Type1Ninja]

You said there is no other mod using IC2's API specifically, when Railcraft does for converting EU into charge and steam into EU, Extra Utilities uses it to allow energy nodes to accept EU, Binnie's mods all use EU, Immersive Engineering uses it to move EU in it's Factorio wires, and the list goes on. People seem to think IC2 has formed it's own little bubble of addons, when it's still quite widely used as electricity in other mods.

People also like to compare RF and IC2 as the same thing which is totally wrong both in terms of how they were initially created and intended to be used. And that's ignoring the inherent difference of EU's fixed tiers to RF's floaty use of power production and consumption.

Yeah, but most if not all of the mods you mentioned also have support for RF. I guess all I want is to see it acknowledges that RF is a legitimate power source. That is not the impression I'm getting from language like "floaty use of power production and consumption." If I wanted to insult IC2, I would say that the EU system is inflexible and punishes users without reason, but I'm not saying that because it would be rude. To be positive about RF, I would call the system intuitive, powerful, and flexible, not "floaty."

 

[Azzanine]

Also take note just becasue a Coder makes an API doesn't mean they want other people using it. Some make them to make their own work easier.

API's usually contain custom functions and hooks right?

And the only similarities EU has to RF is that they are both "ENERGY" systems. While I will say as far as game-play goes they are quite similar, only difference being EU has more things to think about when designing. Get rid of LV, MV and HV and you essentially have something that functionally works like RF. But that's like saying stone would be dirt if you needed to use a shovel and not a pick to collect it.
Also code wise they probably work very different.

 

[Reika]

Also take note just becasue a Coder makes an API doesn't mean they want other people using it. Some make them to make their own work easier.

API's usually contain custom functions and hooks right?

And the only similarities EU has to RF is that they are both "ENERGY" systems. While I will say as far as game-play goes they are quite similar, only difference being EU has more things to think about when designing. Get rid of LV, MV and HV and you essentially have something that functionally works like RF. But that's like saying stone would be dirt if you needed to use a shovel and not a pick to collect it.
Also code wise they probably work very different.

This.

The big difference is not in fundamentals like "You need to conduct power to machine X with cable Y" - which with some flexibility you could even reduce RotaryCraft to - but in how the power system manifests itself, as well as all of its nuances, risks, and limitations. Ignoring that, and saying "all power systems are basically the same, they are generated in an engine and carried to a machine that uses it" is exactly the mentality that led large portions of this community to see every mod reducible to RF and pushed for that accordingly.

Alright, I may have been misinformed. Is RoC the other mod using the IC2 API?

I do in fact use the IC2 API for a pair of conversion engines, yes.

 

[Chocohead]

I would say that the EU system is inflexible and punishes users without reason

I realise you didn't say this because, but one of the points is valid. EU itself is quite inflexible in that you're following IC2's rules, and short of having deep knowledge of how it works to change that (and a little bit of good old hacking) you can't change how it works (but there is an addon which does just this, if you want a totally balanced argument). Punishing for no reason isn't true though, you push too much power into something that can't take it, it goes boom. Reduces your incentive to do it again. Not like that is a new feature either, notice how people only complain when there's an alternative despite 4 years of accepting it.

To be positive about RF, I would call the system intuitive, powerful, and flexible, not "floaty."

Powerful yes, well used no. Lemming always said it could have tiers, but it never did past transmission limits. Suddenly Thermal Dyanmics comes and even that's not true anymore with infinite RF/t conduits. As for intuitive, coding wise it is (or was the last time I looked) a lot more simple than EU and indeed MJ that it replaced, for the end user it's down to how the mod implements it. You could do an IC2 style exploding if too much RT/t comes in but with conduits that can carry so much power you'd most likely be forcing the user down certain transmission methods, oops there goes completely intuitive. This is where floaty comes in, it doesn't have commonly divisible production values, so having tier based machines is very hard to achieve while still going with the RF trait of working well/integrating with other RF mods. Flexible is totally true, the range of RF using mods shows that. There is plenty more that could be done with RF though that hasn't been, and might never be able to at this point because of what is already there.