Industrial coil, and I'd guess "max torque" refers to maximum output torque, which apparently varies based on stored energy.
Mod Feedback [By Request] RotaryCraft Suggestions
- Thread starter Reika
- Start date
Yes, it is unintentional, but I did realize it before implementation, and I do not feel it is a problem.
So ... does this mean that low levels of power can charge a coil, but it can't store very much?
... Hmm, not as much of a battery... Still ...
So, if I understand this (very likely not), you would determine how much torque you want out, and for how long / how much power will be drained, and that tells you how high you need to charge it up to; this, in turn, tells you what power needs to go into the coil to charge it. That is what you need to use it as a battery; correct?
... Hmm, not as much of a battery... Still ...
So, if I understand this (very likely not), you would determine how much torque you want out, and for how long / how much power will be drained, and that tells you how high you need to charge it up to; this, in turn, tells you what power needs to go into the coil to charge it. That is what you need to use it as a battery; correct?
That, and more importantly, it stops going straight from steam engines to tungsten.
But, if I get into the higher-tier, pre-jet fuel engines, could I still charge it enough to where I can use them to make my first few bits of tungsten? Like, maybe AC or performance engines?
I love it when I hear this from my QA department.
(Not happening so much today sadly but ya cant win em all)
I love when I can report "I can't break it" after I actually TRY to break something. Especially balance-wise, I've been a rules-lawyering munchkin turned DM/GM and amatuer games designer/balancer for... well basically since I hit puberty. I'm pretty good at circumvention of intended balance through unforseen interactions (though far from the best. I know some people that can pull of the game equivalent of handing MacGuyver a stick of chewing gum, a paperclip, and an air freshener; then coming back in two hours to find a nuclear reactor.).
Non-sequitor: Are any v7 mods going to have any worldgen or early progress changes? I'm about to go into Live World testing for my semi-private pack, and seeing as how v7 is on the horizon I'd rather not have you release and then regret not waiting a week
Non-sequitor: Are any v7 mods going to have any worldgen or early progress changes? I'm about to go into Live World testing for my semi-private pack, and seeing as how v7 is on the horizon I'd rather not have you release and then regret not waiting a week
But ... but ... but ... what's wrong with 4 steam engines to power your coils and then using that battery to run the bedrock breaker? That's pretty-much standard techtree bypass :=-).
Sigh.
===
Meanwhile, to test: Does the new "low-powered coil charging" mean that I can use a steam engine to charge a coil, and the coil to power first a fan, then a vacuum, to automate a farm at low-tech? Is the 164 method of "charge one coil slowly, when full discharge quickly into a second coil, use that second coil to operate whatever you need", as the RoC equivalent of a forestry "charge up the machine and then let it operate" possible with the new charge/discharge curves?
If I am reading the charge correctly (and I'm not sure that I am), the discharge torque will always be less than the input torque (the stored power for a given input torque always has less output torque than was used to charge it up). That basically ruins the "slowly charge up one coil, discharge a lump output" behavior.
Worse, if I'm reading this right -- if the output torque is always less than the input torque -- then the question becomes, what is the use of a coil as a battery? It looks like the engine powering the coil will always be better than the coil's output -- so what am I missing that makes the coils useful now?
The idea of "Your input power limits the amount you can store" makes sense; the limit on what can then be output seems to be excessive.
I'm probably missing something too. I'm inclined to agree here, the workarounds that existed were pretty much excellent, emergent "take this side road if you want" kinda deals that not everyone bothered to use. Its nice when people come up with clever ways to overcome problems, especially when the ways are realistic.
Well... they're NOT realistic is part of the problem. The coil is capable of things that are nearly completely absurd, and the common use case is flat-out impossible. No spring made of any material I know of could store that much energy without structural failure.
Also the amount stored limiting your output power is almost precisely what all energy storage systems do, batteries, coils, springs, whatever. The system stores the power you put in, and that's the limit of what can come back out (less inefficiency losses). If you can only store up to 3M nm, you should never be able to pull out more than 3M nm from the coil. And as the coil discharges power, that number should (realistically) go down. Just like the output voltage of a battery declines with use. The battery your tester reports as "dead" is in fact probably over 80% charged, the output voltage just dropped below what most devices can utilize. Store potential energy in a water column and drain from the bottom, the pressure will decline.
The other (main) reason is to prevent tier skipping. Because those tiers are very important to Reika. No idea why on that front, I actually like progression exploits which makes me a very poor person to ask
And as for the use? Don't connect a coil directly up to an engine. Use gearboxes or electricraft. Use the advantage (literally: Mechanical advantage) granted to you by simple machines to overcome that. They're still great for temporarily powering builds, or for things you don't want to build the infrastructure of a full-on engine to run. I'll still probably use one to run the boring machine or the extractor until I can get the infrastructure to run them in an end game way, for instance.
Also the amount stored limiting your output power is almost precisely what all energy storage systems do, batteries, coils, springs, whatever. The system stores the power you put in, and that's the limit of what can come back out (less inefficiency losses). If you can only store up to 3M nm, you should never be able to pull out more than 3M nm from the coil. And as the coil discharges power, that number should (realistically) go down. Just like the output voltage of a battery declines with use. The battery your tester reports as "dead" is in fact probably over 80% charged, the output voltage just dropped below what most devices can utilize. Store potential energy in a water column and drain from the bottom, the pressure will decline.
The other (main) reason is to prevent tier skipping. Because those tiers are very important to Reika. No idea why on that front, I actually like progression exploits which makes me a very poor person to ask
And as for the use? Don't connect a coil directly up to an engine. Use gearboxes or electricraft. Use the advantage (literally: Mechanical advantage) granted to you by simple machines to overcome that. They're still great for temporarily powering builds, or for things you don't want to build the infrastructure of a full-on engine to run. I'll still probably use one to run the boring machine or the extractor until I can get the infrastructure to run them in an end game way, for instance.
He didn't fix that, he just took something questionably realistic and made it less so
Actually, these changes make it much more realistic.He didn't fix that, he just took something questionably realistic and made it less so
The other (main) reason is to prevent tier skipping. Because those tiers are very important to Reika. No idea why on that front, I actually like progression exploits which makes me a very poor person to ask
Because as soon as I knowingly let one exist the floodgates open to people demanding more and/or saying "see? I told you your rules to protect tiering are a lie!".
First, limiting the output based on the power stored inside makes sense. Yes, they were excessive, and yes, the uses that I tested in 164 were abusive.
Second, I realized that one option is to hook up a gearbox to them as they discharge -- on discharge, they are a low torque, high RPM power discharge. So the biggest obvious loss is the high-speed transfer from a "charging" coil to a "discharging" coil. In other words, coil A is charged by an engine; when it gets a comparator up to power two, it is switched into discharge mode, and charges a second coil; switch back when comparator goes to power zero. You could do a very high speed transfer, which gave a very low time of "waste" (you can't store the engine output while coil 1 is discharging). Combine this with a "Don't discharge coil 1 into coil 2 while coil 2 is powering something" override, and it's not even that complicated of redstone to control both coils. Other than the "4 steam engines or a gas engine to charge a coil", I didn't see anything in the 1710 changelogs that would break this yet.
So a coil can still be used as a battery, and provide output power like an engine can. The big thing that I see on that chart is that the stored energy doesn't seem to make sense -- if I have 16KW of input power, I can only store 2Kw in the coil. I thought that batteries stored small amounts of power over time, to have a large total amount in the battery. It seems reasonable to me that a coil could be wound at low power over time to store high power inside it -- that's the definition of a crossbow, for example.
So this may seem a little long winded and presumptuous, but bear with me.
Rotarycraft could use a complimentary mod, which makes Titans. The titans would justify the amazing and powerful defenses rotarycraft offers. Titans to build as grand projects, NPC titans to defend against, perhaps even NPC strongholds to send the Titans up against. NPC titans and NPC strongholds would have drops to build a tech tree of better titans. Of course the multiplayer possiblities are interesting too.
Preliminary thoughts:
Each player (or team) is limited to one of each class
4 classes, based around different building materials.
Metal (ranged titan)
building materials like metals and gunpowder (finally a good justification to make tons of sawdust, charcoal, gunpowder...kinda always wanted an excuse)
Flesh (Melee)
You'll need lots of animal meat, and giants swords and shields too. Tempting to allow tie in MFR's liquid meat, or blood magic's blood.
Plant (Healer)
Mostly made of wood. Tempting to tie in MFR biofuel as the blood in it's veins. supports metal and flesh titans
Clay (Buffs)
Made of types of clay and dirt and other similar materials, supports metal and flesh titans
Balancing could be tricky, as could dealing with certain tricky types of defense a player may put up, like moats, tiger pits etc, or blocking with materials that are usually unbreakable. There should probably also be an action the player takes in order to enable the potentially lucrative business of provoking titan attacks on your base......Maybe stealing an object after assaulting an NPC location, and placing it somewhere that NPC Titans will seek to recover it and smash you good.
The thought of scaffolds around a giant not yet mobile offensive juggernaut is pretty cool, pumping in various fluids and materials etc... and the thought of blasting away at the onslaught and collecting loot to advance your own titans for greater tech tree stuff is pretty appealing.
Ok.....Get busy Reika
Rotarycraft could use a complimentary mod, which makes Titans. The titans would justify the amazing and powerful defenses rotarycraft offers. Titans to build as grand projects, NPC titans to defend against, perhaps even NPC strongholds to send the Titans up against. NPC titans and NPC strongholds would have drops to build a tech tree of better titans. Of course the multiplayer possiblities are interesting too.
Preliminary thoughts:
Each player (or team) is limited to one of each class
4 classes, based around different building materials.
Metal (ranged titan)
building materials like metals and gunpowder (finally a good justification to make tons of sawdust, charcoal, gunpowder...kinda always wanted an excuse)
Flesh (Melee)
You'll need lots of animal meat, and giants swords and shields too. Tempting to allow tie in MFR's liquid meat, or blood magic's blood.
Plant (Healer)
Mostly made of wood. Tempting to tie in MFR biofuel as the blood in it's veins. supports metal and flesh titans
Clay (Buffs)
Made of types of clay and dirt and other similar materials, supports metal and flesh titans
Balancing could be tricky, as could dealing with certain tricky types of defense a player may put up, like moats, tiger pits etc, or blocking with materials that are usually unbreakable. There should probably also be an action the player takes in order to enable the potentially lucrative business of provoking titan attacks on your base......Maybe stealing an object after assaulting an NPC location, and placing it somewhere that NPC Titans will seek to recover it and smash you good.
The thought of scaffolds around a giant not yet mobile offensive juggernaut is pretty cool, pumping in various fluids and materials etc... and the thought of blasting away at the onslaught and collecting loot to advance your own titans for greater tech tree stuff is pretty appealing.
Ok.....Get busy Reika
*passes to someone else*So this may seem a little long winded and presumptuous, but bear with me.
Rotarycraft could use a complimentary mod, which makes Titans. The titans would justify the amazing and powerful defenses rotarycraft offers. Titans to build as grand projects, NPC titans to defend against, perhaps even NPC strongholds to send the Titans up against. NPC titans and NPC strongholds would have drops to build a tech tree of better titans. Of course the multiplayer possiblities are interesting too.
Preliminary thoughts:
Each player (or team) is limited to one of each class
4 classes, based around different building materials.
Metal (ranged titan)
building materials like metals and gunpowder (finally a good justification to make tons of sawdust, charcoal, gunpowder...kinda always wanted an excuse)
Flesh (Melee)
You'll need lots of animal meat, and giants swords and shields too. Tempting to allow tie in MFR's liquid meat, or blood magic's blood.
Plant (Healer)
Mostly made of wood. Tempting to tie in MFR biofuel as the blood in it's veins. supports metal and flesh titans
Clay (Buffs)
Made of types of clay and dirt and other similar materials, supports metal and flesh titans
Balancing could be tricky, as could dealing with certain tricky types of defense a player may put up, like moats, tiger pits etc, or blocking with materials that are usually unbreakable. There should probably also be an action the player takes in order to enable the potentially lucrative business of provoking titan attacks on your base......Maybe stealing an object after assaulting an NPC location, and placing it somewhere that NPC Titans will seek to recover it and smash you good.
The thought of scaffolds around a giant not yet mobile offensive juggernaut is pretty cool, pumping in various fluids and materials etc... and the thought of blasting away at the onslaught and collecting loot to advance your own titans for greater tech tree stuff is pretty appealing.
Ok.....Get busy Reika
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
*passes to someone else*
Someone else has already done it. Jointblock 0.0.4
Hopefully @MongrelVigor is fluent in Japanese.