Mod Feedback [By Request] RotaryCraft Suggestions
- Thread starter Reika
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Word of warning: iirc the HP turbine doesn't double power with ammonia. Its more like a 50% increase or some such.
My friends who played with GregTech have said that it's horribly grindy and repetitive, and actually makes vanilla stuff harder. They've described it as a tech mod where the increased effort to make the tech stuff balances the gain from using the tech stuff.
How accurate is that? I've stayed away from GT because everything I've heard or seen about it is along those lines.
Moderately accurate if you exchange the negative connotative verbiage with more neutral verbiage.
Everything in GT is a bit more dragged out so that there is room for mini-tiers. Yes you only get 2 planks from a log by the default shapeless recipe, but that's because it increases the value of making things like Saws or Sawmills.
Crafting things like pumps and motors and such is highly annoying if you do them one at a time because of all the nuts and bolts and stuff, but it encourages you to mass-produce these things (realistic) and to create factories for them.
This is all stuff that is very polarizing. One person's "horribly grindy and repetitive" is another's "how the hell do I overcome this problem to return back my sanity."
For me the only thing GT and ROC have in common in a strict adherence to tech-based tiering. There's no such thing in GT as "collect a bunch of diamonds to create a Pulverizer." You need all the tech parts to come together in order to accomplish this. (That said, the individual small pieces of GT do frequently require considerably more resource grinding than RoC). RoC shares this philosophy: you cannot craft certain machines until you've figured out how to work tungsten. (Tungsten is actually a tier both mods share in fact)
So ... in RoC, you are expected to automate everything, and it gives you the tools to do so. But to make use of RoC tool X+1, you have to achieve all the tech required of RoC X first.
And, GT is similar? You are expected to automate everything, and to make GT tool X+1, you are expected to get GT tech X first? Is that it?
Since RoC does not let you use any other mods to help advance in the tech tree, and from that description, it sounds like GT has a similar philosophy, does this mean that GT also does not let you use other mods to advance in its tech tree?
And, GT is similar? You are expected to automate everything, and to make GT tool X+1, you are expected to get GT tech X first? Is that it?
Since RoC does not let you use any other mods to help advance in the tech tree, and from that description, it sounds like GT has a similar philosophy, does this mean that GT also does not let you use other mods to advance in its tech tree?
Note: everything I'm saying here is about whichever version of gregtech was before the worldgen change (I want to say GT v5, because 6 was the ore generation redo right?). I could easily be horribly wrong about everything. But I don't actually play the mod anymore due to personal issues with the author and the kind of people that he and his mod attract.
Now with the disclaimer out of the way; Gregtech is more skippable/abusable (or was) than RoC. Greg tried to unify everything which means if you had a method to obtain most of the materials that were in the ore dictionary, you could easily skip tiers.
There are a lot of broad similarities and detail similarities between the two mods, and they "integrate" pretty well... in that they don't clash but you can't really mesh them like most people expect with the word "integrate". But there are also a lot of differences in the way they go about doing their "thing". RotaryCraft is about taking everything to 11 using mechanics designed with an eye to verisimilitude. GregTech is about changing the base game in order to stretch the experience. GT adds worldgen, RotaryCraft does not. Gregtech changes vanilla mechanics, RotaryCraft does not. Gregtech is OBSCENELY configurable without actually being totally configurable (his config files are HUGE, but amazingly limited in the scope you can change the values to), whereas RotaryCraft is one of the least fluidly/organically configurable mods I've ever played with (no offense intended. Configs for RoC usually come about because a user brings forth a problem, Reika sees it as a valid, and implements a config for it. ).
That being said if you want a mostly meshed experience of RoC and something else, and you can enjoy GT? It's hard to beat the pair. I'm personally trying out Reasonable Realism (It's a private Beta no public download links... sorry) and look forward to seeing how Immersive Engineering works with RoC as well... once that finally comes out... grrr.
Now with the disclaimer out of the way; Gregtech is more skippable/abusable (or was) than RoC. Greg tried to unify everything which means if you had a method to obtain most of the materials that were in the ore dictionary, you could easily skip tiers.
There are a lot of broad similarities and detail similarities between the two mods, and they "integrate" pretty well... in that they don't clash but you can't really mesh them like most people expect with the word "integrate". But there are also a lot of differences in the way they go about doing their "thing". RotaryCraft is about taking everything to 11 using mechanics designed with an eye to verisimilitude. GregTech is about changing the base game in order to stretch the experience. GT adds worldgen, RotaryCraft does not. Gregtech changes vanilla mechanics, RotaryCraft does not. Gregtech is OBSCENELY configurable without actually being totally configurable (his config files are HUGE, but amazingly limited in the scope you can change the values to), whereas RotaryCraft is one of the least fluidly/organically configurable mods I've ever played with (no offense intended. Configs for RoC usually come about because a user brings forth a problem, Reika sees it as a valid, and implements a config for it. ).
That being said if you want a mostly meshed experience of RoC and something else, and you can enjoy GT? It's hard to beat the pair. I'm personally trying out Reasonable Realism (It's a private Beta no public download links... sorry) and look forward to seeing how Immersive Engineering works with RoC as well... once that finally comes out... grrr.
Good arguments.
No, Greg doesn't throw a fit about cross-mod alternatives. For instance, making steel in quantities is necessary to progress out of the bronze/steam age. And to do it in any sort of reasonable time, you need to make multiple blast furnaces, which are multiblocks costing a lot of bronze.
One alternative is Thaumcraft which integrates really strongly with GT (there is an awful lot of added cross-mod integration between these two). You can use alchemy to convert iron nuggets to steel nuggets with ordo. Its way faster than the vanilla GT way, but of course you need to know thaumcraft, and set up the infrastructure for that (a way to farm large quantities of ordo, automation for the transmutation, fuel for the alchemical furnaces, etc)
RoC differs here: Reika hates when other mods let you leap his tiers (note that he doesn't really care about going in the other direction: RoC steel is ridiculously simple to make in a GT pack, and much simpler than TC4 for that matter)
That said, while this stuff happens a bit, its not particularly prevalent. There are alternate avenues, but not to the point where you ever stray far from the tech tree.
The whole reason I added such strong tiering is to balance RC and defend myself against the formerly constant (as in every five minutes someone complaining to me) complaints of it being horrendously overpowered.
This used to be a daily occurrence (and side note, still happens because people are still refusing to update from Monster 1.1.1, even to Monster 1.1.2).
Being able to skip the whole thing with another mod makes the whole thing completely pointless. I fail to see how it is any different from the untiered magnetostatics.
This feels like a jab, so I am going to address it: Because the other mods seem not to care and I have no reason to agonize over it.
It's a tiny jab because there's a slight appearance of hypocrisy. And I realize that word has uber negative connotations, I hope you understand that I'm only using it in a literal sense and not in malice or to paint an ugly picture. If I could I'd underline the word "appearance" 14x. Ultimately however RoC is a mod that lets you leap tiers in another mods, but not one that lets you leap tiers within it.
My point is that "Being able to skip the whole thing with another mod makes the whole thing completely pointless" is demonstrably invalid or misleading because other tech mods, including ones that are equally or more complex than RoC, allow some alternative routes without rendering them "pointless." Done right, you can provide alternative options that some users leverage and some don't.
Lastly, need to be clear on this: I'm addressing your remarks, but my original point on the subject isn't that GT is superior in the respect, merely highlighting the difference. I personally prefer alternative options but if and only if they're not straight-out exploits. Its a really, really fine line to walk.
GT can get away with it, because he has so many tiers that make skipping one less of a problem, and on top of that he changes the vanilla game to the extent that most of his tiering is impossible to break.
Also, most of his 'mod-skippable' tiers are fairly early-game; you might be able to skip the bronze age or similar, but large-scale GT power production? Not so much.
Furthermore, he tried enforcing his tiering (granted, the wrong way, but he still tried), indicating his desire to maintain the integrity of his tiering.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Examples? As in X Reika item skips Ymod not mass producing ore-dicted materials/Rf, or stuff designed in with regard to other devs [such as GT energy conversion]
While I agree with the concept; because if it's done right it could make for a more interesting game.
However- as rightly you said- 'doing it right' is a hell of lot easier said than done; especially beyond the current level of integration (liquid fuel engine/steam turbine/magnostatic/electric motor ect)
Also some devs being able to successfully pull it off in their own instance isn't in itself a justification that all devs should/must be able to do it.
Also some devs being able to successfully pull it off in their own instance isn't in itself a justification that all devs should/must be able to do it.
Fair enough.
Yep, way back in the day, and learned from that. Since then (most) modder's have learned from the mistake.
Good question. I'd need to fire up an RoC instance to give a good example that I can back up, and I'm not really likely to do that as things stand. HSLA steel comes to mind but I suspect GT deliberately consumes it rather than it being a passive tier hop.
Generally agreed on all points.
Max speed in RoC is defined as the fastest anything can go before exploding in sheer awesomeness.There's a max speed?
Rumor has it that if you feed a machine 50GW, you can get it to perform two operations per tick.