Bees Question

[ShameWillFollow]

I recently got into bee breeding in the Mindcrack pack and I have a question regarding mutations. My first goal is to work my way up to some imperial bees. My problem is that every time I try to breed a new species, theres a chance that I won't get back the original species of the princess that I used AND I won't get the mutation I wanted.

(SPOILERS?)
For example, if I wanted a pure imperial princess, I would have to mix a noble princess with a majestic drone. If I get unlucky and don't get the imperial I wanted, and I don't get back a noble princess, I now have to start all the way from the beginning (with pure hive bees) to try to get another noble princess. Basically, is there no way to replicate princesses of a certain species? It seems that the majority of my time spent trying to breed a new species is spent re-breeding princesses of an older species. If this is normal, that's fine, but since I'm new to bee breeding I just want to make sure I'm not doing it incorrectly/inefficiently.

 

[DoctorOr]

For example, if I wanted a pure imperial princess, I would have to mix a noble princess with a majestic drone. If I get unlucky and don't get the imperial I wanted, and I don't get back a noble princess, I now have to start all the way from the beginning (with pure hive bees) to try to get another noble princess.

If you're starting with two pure bees, that can't happen. A pure noble princess and a pure majestic drone will give offspring that are noble, majestic, a mutation to imperial, or a hybrid of two of those three choices.

 

[ShameWillFollow]

But I don't always get back the same species of princess that I used, which is the main problem. Basically, one failed mutation has me starting all over again to get another noble princess.

 

[noskk]

I recently got into bee breeding in the Mindcrack pack and I have a question regarding mutations. My first goal is to work my way up to some imperial bees. My problem is that every time I try to breed a new species, theres a chance that I won't get back the original species of the princess that I used AND I won't get the mutation I wanted.

(SPOILERS?)
For example, if I wanted a pure imperial princess, I would have to mix a noble princess with a majestic drone. If I get unlucky and don't get the imperial I wanted, and I don't get back a noble princess, I now have to start all the way from the beginning (with pure hive bees) to try to get another noble princess. Basically, is there no way to replicate princesses of a certain species? It seems that the majority of my time spent trying to breed a new species is spent re-breeding princesses of an older species. If this is normal, that's fine, but since I'm new to bee breeding I just want to make sure I'm not doing it incorrectly/inefficiently.

Assuming you have a pair of both noble and majestic bees (drone and princess);

What you can do is firstly, to breed a dozen of pure bred noble drones using this pair of noble bees, and then make a new noble princess from any hive princess and these drones.. it should be easy.. after that, you can breed this new noble princess with majestic drone.

 

[Abdiel]

1) Breeding a pure princess and a pure drone will produce extra drones of the same species, and will never change the species of the princess.
2) Breeding the misfit princess with pure drones obtained as above will eventually breed the desired species back into it.

I have at least one breeding setup for every species I discover that just automatically cycles drones back into the apiary forever, and stores all the extra ones. Then when crossbreeding doesn't go right, you can just get a pile of drones from the stash and over a couple of generations get back the princess you started with (or of any other species you have a breeder for).

 

[Lisn87]

Yeah it's how ot works sadly, that's why you usually try to have more then one queen for species, just in case you lose one.
Anyway, in the extra bee mod, there are some pretty cool machines that allow to copy characteristic from bees and put them in other bees. Like, in your case, once you get a Imperial specie vial, you can turn any bee you want in imperial.
They are pretty expensive to build and to manage (purifier uses 100 MJ/t) but they works great.

 

[MilConDoin]

There also seems to be a misunderstanding:
It is completely irrelevant which species is the princess and which is the drone. Noble princess + majestic drone has the same possible results as majestic princess + noble drone.

 

[Bibble]

The princess is (as said before), either the original species, the drone species, or a mutation (good or bad). You can't mutate your way "back" along a branch, but you can overwrite.

My suggestion (and what I ended up doing):
Find a load of pure bees (Forest, Meadows, Marshy, Tropical, Wintry, etc.). For each of them, pair the princessess and drones, and make a repeating hive (princesses/drone automatically taken out, and put back into the same hive, excess stored elsewhere). This will amass you a stock of pure, basic drones. You can typically overwrite a princess with between 2 and 10 drones (depending on how lucky/unlucky you are). As you go up the mutations (common, cultivated, noble, etc.), attempt to purify the species, and get a breeding pair of pur bees. Add those to your stock.

This means that you can have a set of "experimental" bees, and a set of "producing" bees. The experimentals can be rewritten and changed to try and produce a specific mutation, rather than trying to take a hive bee from basic to the top tier in one go.


Just to be sure, what I mean by rewriting is that you can take a stack of, for intsance 10 drones, and put them in the drone part of the apiary. When the pipe tries to put the descendants in, it can't because the slot is full, so they go off to storage. The princess is inserted, and they breed.

If you start with a pure diligent princess (which you don't want), and put a stack of 10 cultivated drones in, the first mating will be pure and pure, with approx. 50/50 hybrids, the second will be 75/25 in favour of cultivated, and the third will be 87/12. This changes due to the chances and mutations, but, as I said, it usually only takes a few cycles for a complete overwrite.

 

[ShameWillFollow]

Assuming you have a pair of both noble and majestic bees (drone and princess);

What you can do is firstly, to breed a dozen of pure bred noble drones using this pair of noble bees, and then make a new noble princess from any hive princess and these drones.. it should be easy.. after that, you can breed this new noble princess with majestic drone.

That sounds like something I could do.

1) Breeding a pure princess and a pure drone will produce extra drones of the same species, and will never change the species of the princess.
2) Breeding the misfit princess with pure drones obtained as above will eventually breed the desired species back into it.

I have at least one breeding setup for every species I discover that just automatically cycles drones back into the apiary forever, and stores all the extra ones. Then when crossbreeding doesn't go right, you can just get a pile of drones from the stash and over a couple of generations get back the princess you started with (or of any other species you have a breeder for).

As does that. Thanks for that input.

 

[nethervvoid]

Ah I have been doing this breeding in pure drones with naturally occurring princesses to get pure bees of same species as drones without even realizing that's how it works for all of the species. lol Thanks for the clarity!

 

[ShameWillFollow]

The princess is (as said before), either the original species, the drone species, or a mutation (good or bad). You can't mutate your way "back" along a branch, but you can overwrite.

My suggestion (and what I ended up doing):
Find a load of pure bees (Forest, Meadows, Marshy, Tropical, Wintry, etc.). For each of them, pair the princessess and drones, and make a repeating hive (princesses/drone automatically taken out, and put back into the same hive, excess stored elsewhere). This will amass you a stock of pure, basic drones. You can typically overwrite a princess with between 2 and 10 drones (depending on how lucky/unlucky you are). As you go up the mutations (common, cultivated, noble, etc.), attempt to purify the species, and get a breeding pair of pur bees. Add those to your stock.

This means that you can have a set of "experimental" bees, and a set of "producing" bees. The experimentals can be rewritten and changed to try and produce a specific mutation, rather than trying to take a hive bee from basic to the top tier in one go.


Just to be sure, what I mean by rewriting is that you can take a stack of, for intsance 10 drones, and put them in the drone part of the apiary. When the pipe tries to put the descendants in, it can't because the slot is full, so they go off to storage. The princess is inserted, and they breed.

If you start with a pure diligent princess (which you don't want), and put a stack of 10 cultivated drones in, the first mating will be pure and pure, with approx. 50/50 hybrids, the second will be 75/25 in favour of cultivated, and the third will be 87/12. This changes due to the chances and mutations, but, as I said, it usually only takes a few cycles for a complete overwrite.

Thanks for the good explanation. I'll get to work on making some automatic pure drone producers right away!