bee breeding

[kk258966]

I'm trying to do bee breeding these days
but got some questions~
as i know nobel+majestic=imperial
also i know if i breed two bees that are the same species
they won't give any other new bee
first question is if i have two common bee a pure drone and a hybrid princess
will it give out somting else then common bees?
second question is i've asked the other member of the server if he could trade some imperial princess
with me but instead of trading he gave me some imperial drones. is there any ways to use it to get royal jelly?
and also pure princess ?
third question is :is there any ways to turn a hybrid bee species into pure bee?

 

[eable2]

In bee breeding, when you discover a new species, your number one goal is to get a pure pair - that is, a pure princess and a pure drone. Pure princesses for forest, meadows, etc. can come from hives, but they CAN also be bred. Imperial bees, for example, cannot be found in the wild. The only way to get an imperial princess is to breed one yourself.
This generally begins by getting lucky when breeding noble and majestic. You might get, like a majestic-imperial drone or something. You usually get noble-majestic hybrids, but you can drastically increase your chances of getting mutations by using ExtraBees soul frames (you'll need a squeezer and a carpenter for those, as well as a source of seeds and a source of MJ power). So, it's a little bit of gambling. Then, one day, you'll get lucky and get a majestic-imperial princess (or noble-imperial, or something). Then, you take one of those imperial drones and mix it with an imperial princess, and try and get a pure princess. Hopefully that answers question 3.

Question 2: Yes, it is possible (although very rare) to get royal jelly through hybrid queens, like a noble-imperial queen. This is not reliable though.

Question 1: Yes. See below.

To better understand how bee breeding works and how traits get passed on, you need to understand your beealyzer. (If you have not yet crafted a beealyzer, this is a must). If you look in your beealyzer, you will see two columns. The left column is the active trait, and the right column is the passive trait. So, for a noble-imperial hybrid, it technically is a noble bee, but it still has a bit of imperial genes it can pass on to future generations when bred with another bee. This works for other traits too. For example, let's consider the nocturnal trait. Rocky bees have this. Forest bees do not. So, suppose you mix a rocky with a forest, and you manage to mutate a pure common princess. You look in your beealyzer on page two, and see nocturnal with a NO and then a YES. This bee isn't nocturnal, but it's future offspring might be if you mix this common princess with another bee that has the nocturnal trait. You just need to get lucky. You can also see what products a queen will produce by putting it into the beealyzer.

NOTE: Once you get more advanced into bees, you can use some advanced ExtraBees machines to create species serums. So you can take your imperial drones, extract imperial species serum from them, and use it to turn other princesses into imperials. You can actually create a serum for any trait you want, like 4 offspring, or nocturnal, or cave, or anything like that (not products, though). If you play on a server, you should see if anybody has already built these machines.

Hope this is helpful! Please feel free to ask any more questions.

 

[kk258966]

In bee breeding, when you discover a new species, your number one goal is to get a pure pair - that is, a pure princess and a pure drone. Pure princesses for forest, meadows, etc. can come from hives, but they CAN also be bred. Imperial bees, for example, cannot be found in the wild. The only way to get an imperial princess is to breed one yourself.
This generally begins by getting lucky when breeding noble and majestic. You might get, like a majestic-imperial drone or something. You usually get noble-majestic hybrids, but you can drastically increase your chances of getting mutations by using ExtraBees soul frames (you'll need a squeezer and a carpenter for those, as well as a source of seeds and a source of MJ power). So, it's a little bit of gambling. Then, one day, you'll get lucky and get a majestic-imperial princess (or noble-imperial, or something). Then, you take one of those imperial drones and mix it with an imperial princess, and try and get a pure princess. Hopefully that answers question 3.

Question 2: Yes, it is possible (although very rare) to get royal jelly through hybrid queens, like a noble-imperial queen. This is not reliable though.

Question 1: Yes. See below.

To better understand how bee breeding works and how traits get passed on, you need to understand your beealyzer. (If you have not yet crafted a beealyzer, this is a must). If you look in your beealyzer, you will see two columns. The left column is the active trait, and the right column is the passive trait. So, for a noble-imperial hybrid, it technically is a noble bee, but it still has a bit of imperial genes it can pass on to future generations when bred with another bee. This works for other traits too. For example, let's consider the nocturnal trait. Rocky bees have this. Forest bees do not. So, suppose you mix a rocky with a forest, and you manage to mutate a pure common princess. You look in your beealyzer on page two, and see nocturnal with a NO and then a YES. This bee isn't nocturnal, but it's future offspring might be if you mix this common princess with another bee that has the nocturnal trait. You just need to get lucky. You can also see what products a queen will produce by putting it into the beealyzer.

NOTE: Once you get more advanced into bees, you can use some advanced ExtraBees machines to create species serums. So you can take your imperial drones, extract imperial species serum from them, and use it to turn other princesses into imperials. You can actually create a serum for any trait you want, like 4 offspring, or nocturnal, or cave, or anything like that (not products, though). If you play on a server, you should see if anybody has already built these machines.

Hope this is helpful! Please feel free to ask any more questions.

will it increase the possibility to get pure if i use a pure drone and mix it with a imperial-noble hybrid?

 

[noskk]

If you are using XBee, I recommend using maximum fertility serum (4 offsprings) when you try to mutate using 3 soul frames, more drones = more chance to get something useful, and choco frame when you are not mutating them and want to get the result faster (I.e. when you want to get a pair of pure bred A and you breeding hybrid AB and pure bred A)

 

[adjl]

Bees follow simple Mendelian genetics for each trait, including their species. If you pair a pure Imperial drone with an Imperial-noble hybrid, then you'll have a 50% chance of each offspring being pure Imperial, and a 50% chance of a hybrid (since it takes one allele from each bee).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_genetics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnet_square

Dominant/recessive is indicated by whether the trait is red or blue in the beealyzer (red being dominant), but for the most part you don't have to worry too much about that, especially if you're working toward purebreds.

 

[Damoklesz]

I've also started bee breeding not long ago, and also have a couple of quick questions.

1.
For the sake of breeding is an Imperial-Noble hybrid princess any different from a Noble-Imperial one? Do the active and passive traits influence the offsping the same amount or is there any difference?

2.
What about the differences between drones and princesses? Does an Imperial-Noble hybrid princess paired with a purebred Imperial have the same chance of producing purebred offspings as a purebred princess with a hybrid drone?

3.
Anything that has the same active and passive species is called a purebred, right? But when I get my first purebred it's traits are usually nothing like what I can see in the wiki. So I usually breed my purebreds further to get to the point when I have the exact same traits on the drone and the princess as the wiki, so the offspings have the same traits too so I can stack those drones. But theoreticly could I also just go for a different set of traits? I mean as long as the princess and the drone is the exact same in every regard, they are guaranteed to produce the exact same offspings? If so what are those traits in the wiki actually mean?

4.
Soul frames (and other mutation helping tools) increase the mutation chance. I know that when I breed a Common and a Cultivated (for example), the soul frames increase the chance of getting a Noble or Diligent. But do the frames help if I try to turn hybrids into purebreds? Now that I think of it, probably no, because that's not a mutation...

 

[Bibble]

1. No, not at far as I am aware. And, no, but they are overwritten by a mutation (a common mutation will overwrite ALL the traits that would have been in either the dominant/recessive slot, not just the species). That is how new traits (fastest, different pollinations, etc.) are found.

2. Again, no, not as far as I am aware. The best way to calculate it is to look into the punnet squares thing. The square for the In-II pairing is the same as the one for the II-In pairing, but flipped. The values and probabilities are constant.

3. This is from a mix of the 1st question and the breeding. The wiki details are what a "pure" bee will be with that species. I.e. if you were to breed something, and BOTH sections mutated, all supplementary traits would be overwritten, and the bee would be pure, in that sense. Because you typically get 1 or 2 mutated "halves" per time, the supplementary traits tend to mix with the ancestor traits, giving the situation you mentioned there.

4. As far as I can tell, soul frames just give an increased mutation chance (at a cost of production, I think). For purification, your best bet would be cocoa frames, as they will shorted the lifespan, allowing you to filter the offspring quicker.

 

[Damoklesz]

That helps a lot, thanks!

Just one final question.
I can get a mutation out of a hybrid too, right? So if I pair a Noble-Cultivated queen with a Noble-Cultivated drone I have a chance for Majestic? What if I pair up the same queen with a purebred Noble or purebred Cultivated drone?

 

[Bibble]

Yes, you can get a mutation out of a hybrid pairing. However, the chances are lower.

The reason is that, because the child takes genes from both parents, there is a 50/50 chance that the descendant will be a purebred (pure noble, or pur cultivated, in this case), while with a pairing of pures, there's a 100% chance of a hybrid (which is when the mutation calculation is made, I think).

 

[Damoklesz]

Yes, you can get a mutation out of a hybrid pairing. However, the chances are lower.

The reason is that, because the child takes genes from both parents, there is a 50/50 chance that the descendant will be a purebred (pure noble, or pur cultivated, in this case), while with a pairing of pures, there's a 100% chance of a hybrid (which is when the mutation calculation is made, I think).

Why is there a 100% for hybrids with 2 purebreds? I'm pretty sure I can get a purebred noble or cultivated queen from breeding a purebred noble queen with a cultivated drone.

 

[Bibble]

Actually, you can't. If you have a purebred noble (NN), and a purebred cultivated (CC), then the child has to take traits from each. You can draw a square to represent it:

Because 1 trait has to come from each parent, all children have to be hybrids.

Conversely, if you pair 2 hybrids (NC and NC), the square looks very different:

In this case, there are 2 hybrids and 2 purebreds as possibilities.

This process happens with each and every trait that the bee has (unless mutation takes place and supersedes it), which is why it's easy to end up with garbled traits, in spite of species.

 

[Damoklesz]

Thx so much for the illustrated response. I think I finally get it!

So it turns out that it doesn't matter what I do with my mutation failed queens. If I pair them with pure drones (to get them back being pures, so I can try mutation them once again) they have a 50% chance for turning out pures and 50% for hybrids, in which case they have a chance to mutate immediately anyways. If I pair them with other hybrids (of the same kind), they have the exact same chances, except my princess might end up being the other species.

Edit: BTW it took me 30 minutes to come up with that conclusion

 

[Auchioane]

I have a noob question regarding bee breeding. Is there a way to increase the number of princesses you get from a dying queen? All that iv seen and read seem to assume that you will always only ever get 1 princess. I was wondering this because I want to try and have a purebred princess/queen of every species so wanted to know did I have to go out and hunt down 163 individual princesses or is there a way to multiply them during the breeding process?

 

[Bibble]

Nope, no way to increase the number of princesses. When you work up to alvearies you can include spawners in them. These eat up royal jelly in order to produce new hives close by. The issue is that these aren't "pure" bees. They will die off eventually.

The best way of doing what you want would be to go through and get the serums for the species, and imprint princesses that you find while quarrying (trust me, you'll find a lot).

 

[Juanitierno]

you will always get 1 and only 1 princess out of a queen.

The best way i found to increase my bee population is to quarry, quarrying will give you tons of rocky bees, which as are also an excellent base for re-specieing them, because they have tolerances to EVERYTHING and they sometimes keep some of those traits (they may keep the low fertility one tho, which is not that good).

I generally put a rocky princess and about 10 stacked pure drones of the species i want in an automated apiary, wait a few cycles and have another purebreed queen of the drone species.

 

[CraftUrToe]

Maybe because you have mutations for the bees so the bees won't get a new species?

 

[Maldroth]

As for Princesses another trick if you need to make her of annother type you can breed her with drones of the desired type over and over and eventually the princess will turn into that type. For example say I have some Imperial drones and I just found a Meadows Princess. I can breed her with the drones over and over and eventually the Meadows Princess will turn into an Imperial Princess like the drones. Note that during this process you will get lots of hybrid drones.

Now doing this can also breed desirable traits into a stable pure breed as well. For instance I had some Distilled Bees and they have Normal work speed. I want them to be Fast. I crossbred them with Cultivated and grabbed the hybrids that had the traits I wanted on the Distilled side and bred them back with the princess until I had a Distilled Bee that was now Fast production. This took on average of 3-6 lifecycles.

Bee fertility will increase the number of drones given per lifecycle and also give you more of the hybrid options that show up as a result of a crossbreed. This makes it easier to select the right drone to continue to fine tune. The Beealyzer will help you see what traits each bee will have.

As others have said Chocolate frames help reduce lifetime to make the bees dye quicker and then you can get more attempts to breed quicker. Soul Frames will help increase the chance of mutation. Mutations are when a new bee is discovered by making a hybrid. For instance if you combine two hive found bees such a Meadows bee and a Forest bee you have a chance to get a Common bee. Soul frames help this mutation show up.

This is the natural way of bee breeding, Extra Bees indroduces genetic machines which makes the above process easier at the expense of Buildcraft power production.

Look at the Punnet squares references that were given above as that will help you understand the interactions when you breed bees.