Automatic MJ production adjustments?

[Bihlbo]

I am trying to build a setup where I have 1 steam boiler running all the time for my various machines, but then I have a multiple large banks of other engines set up to be used on demand if I start to draw a larger amount of MJ and the steam boiler can't keep up (lasers, bee processing, quarry, etc).

I don't mind having to throw a switch to turn on "bank 3 engines" or something like that, but I'd like at least some indication that the current production is not keeping pace with current use. But, if it can be indicated it can probably be automated too. What's a good way to monitor production vs. use?

 

[Grunguk]

Hmm, how big is your boiler? If you're running a 36hp boiler and kicking out 144 MJ at a time, then it's unlikely that you'll be using anywhere close to that just with general machine use. If you're producing an excess during "quiet" time then you might be best served by just having a bank of redstone energy cells to store the excess MJ until one of your heavy-use situations kick in.

If you're not producing an excess and this isn't an option, you can display the energy level of a redstone cell using an Energy Sensor Kit and an Industrial Information Panel. That'll give you an indication of your current power levels.

 

[Bihlbo]

Not large. I have a perpetual setup with a tree farm feeding coke ovens and the boiler burns the creosote. That's small enough (16 MJ/t total) and perpetual so I don't care about wasting that energy. It's big enough to run 5-8 general machines at once, but if I try to use a heavy-draw machine I usually do dip into the cells, and I don't want to make so many cells that I can run my lasers long enough for a few gates.

What I'm trying to do is gain some efficiency. Conduits lose 5% of incoming energy from every source, so if I'm drawing from an energy cell that's 10% less energy than what was produced by the engines themselves. Also, it runs out pretty fast unless I have a huge bank of them, which I don't want because frankly I'd rather spend the resources on a biofuel setup than a barrel's worth of redstone melted into cell frames.

I'd rather produce high amounts of MJ (up to maybe 300/t) on demand, and build up fuel in between uses than to set up something where I am producing 100+ MJ/t and wasting it 90% of the time. For my needs, the largest boiler just doesn't make sense.

 

[Bihlbo]

...you can display the energy level of a redstone cell using an Energy Sensor Kit and an Industrial Information Panel. That'll give you an indication of your current power levels.

That sounds great! I didn't know about that because I haven't messed with the Nuclear Control mod at all. In fact I don't really use much EU for anything so the IC mods are taking a back seat. I haven't found good information yet on the Energy Sensor Kit and the Industrial Information Panel, so if you want to share some tasty links, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Peppe]

Not large. I have a perpetual setup with a tree farm feeding coke ovens and the boiler burns the creosote. That's small enough (16 MJ/t total) and perpetual so I don't care about wasting that energy. It's big enough to run 5-8 general machines at once, but if I try to use a heavy-draw machine I usually do dip into the cells, and I don't want to make so many cells that I can run my lasers long enough for a few gates.

What I'm trying to do is gain some efficiency. Conduits lose 5% of incoming energy from every source, so if I'm drawing from an energy cell that's 10% less energy than what was produced by the engines themselves. Also, it runs out pretty fast unless I have a huge bank of them, which I don't want because frankly I'd rather spend the resources on a biofuel setup than a barrel's worth of redstone melted into cell frames.

I'd rather produce high amounts of MJ (up to maybe 300/t) on demand, and build up fuel in between uses than to set up something where I am producing 100+ MJ/t and wasting it 90% of the time. For my needs, the largest boiler just doesn't make sense.

I don't know if it is in the 1.4.7 versions, but King Lemming said you only pay the 5% thermal expansion penalty once in the network. I think he said you pay it at the engine -- so if you use his engine's you don't pay 5% at all.

To automate on demand engines buildcraft gates can be effective. I usually use the 'full energy' setting and stop engines when a redstone energy cell is full. Doesn't work reliable on just conduit, so you will need to buff the input/output through energy cells to read them with a gate. So if you have the boiler always running the energy cell and it keeps it at 100% no extra engines will start. If the energy cell dips the engines can be triggered to start off the gate signal. You need to pair engines that are good at start/stop to fill this on demand roll -- don't use hobbyist steam

 

[Bihlbo]

I don't know if it is in the 1.4.7 versions, but King Lemming said you only pay the 5% thermal expansion penalty once in the network. I think he said you pay it at the engine -- so if you use his engine's you don't pay 5% at all.

What I've read (not tested, so keep that in mind) is that you pay 5% at every source of MJ. So every engine runs at a 5% penalty, basically. My reasoning is that the energy cell is a source of MJ, therefore you pay 5% again. Is that wrong? Beats me, I'm guessing.

Also, what does "so if you use his engine's you don't pay 5% at all" mean? It was my understanding that the redstone conduit applies the penalty - why would the type of engine matter? And if it does, are you saying that engines specifically from a mod King Lemming has done are exempt from this? I'm skeptical, does anything back this up?

To automate on demand engines buildcraft gates can be effective. I usually use the 'full energy' setting and stop engines when a redstone energy cell is full. Doesn't work reliable on just conduit, so you will need to buff the input/output through energy cells to read them with a gate. So if you have the boiler always running the energy cell and it keeps it at 100% no extra engines will start. If the energy cell dips the engines can be triggered to start off the gate signal.

So you've done this and it works pretty well? I'm asking based on what I read about how gates interact with the cells. I'm not sure I'm smart enough with the tools to build the workaround mentioned and even then it sounds like a poor way to automate things.

You need to pair engines that are good at start/stop to fill this on demand roll -- don't use hobbyist steam

I was planning on setting up huge biofuel tanks and 20 combustion engines in 5 banks that can be fired up sequentially as the need grows. If that seems to work, it shouldn't be hard to expand it with more banks of engines if it seems like my need has grown.

 

[Peppe]

I'll switch to my PC. Did it with a bank of 40 combustion engines. Works fine, but my power source is only the engines. Combustion are great for their built in cool down before restart, so it doesn't rapid cycle on/off.

 

[Peppe]

Sample 40 combustion engine setup.

Iron or gate on each energy cell. Full energy cell turns on the pipe wire and kills all the engines for that bank.
Iron and gate on all the engines, you can use an or gate on them as well since they are looking for 2 different things. The settings on the engine will detect any red engine and shutoff the whole bank. As long as there is space in the energy cell and no engines are red each gate will turn on it's engine.

Spoiler

Basic Layout

Engine Gate's:

Energy Cell Gate:

Second option here lets you apply a redstone signal to the gate to shut everything off -- good manual shutoff option.

On your other question. In 1.4.7 yes the 5% applied per section of conduit and energy cells reset it pay 5% again. So if you run a line of conduit -> energy cell -> conduit -> etc you lose 5% at each conduit run. I thought i saw a post somewhere that indicated that was changing in 1.5 and that thermal expansions engines should not trigger any losses. Could have been a stream/cast though.