Ars Magica's inclusion in mod packs

  • Please make sure you are posting in the correct place. Server ads go here and modpack bugs go here
  • The FTB Forum is now read-only, and is here as an archive. To participate in our community discussions, please join our Discord! https://ftb.team/discord

RandomMoped

Popular Member
Nov 17, 2012
429
374
108
Somewhere on the internet
So according to the news announcements, the only mod pack Ars Magica is going to appear in is the Magic World 2 pack (which really shouldn't exist and should just be in magic world 1, but that's a rant for another day). I really don't see why the mod pack team is so against putting this mod into other mod packs. As far as I know, the only reasons it's not going to be in the other mod packs is because A: "It doesn't fit", or B, "It has too much wordlgeneration". First off, there are lots of packs with mods that wouldn't typically "go" together. I've never seen anyone complain that thaumcraft and industrialcraft are in the same pack. And as for the worldgen, a few random houses and towers generating in your world shouldn't be too much of an issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chocorate

Hoff

Tech Support
Oct 30, 2012
2,901
1,502
218
Mostly because you can generate an infinite amount of any resource you want.

And yes that includes all mod resources as well because you can manually add them to the config.

DoctorOr's setup has been posted many times.
 

Jess887cp

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
922
2
1
Well, when *I* personally say it doesn't fit, I mean that it doesn't fit with thaumcraft. Until they are properly integrated with each-other, it's best to keep away.

However, I do think that it should be included in later versions of all the packs.



Point two, I haaate annoying worldgen, and it's gen is really annoying. I don't mind villages because they have long term use, and they fit in pretty well, but randon towers with no rhyme or reason kinda tick me off. Plus the towers with obsidian are hard to tear down.

I'd like the generation if it was toned down just a touch more, cluster-spawned with inhabitants, or felt more like ruins.
 

Hoff

Tech Support
Oct 30, 2012
2,901
1,502
218
Point two, I haaate annoying worldgen, and it's gen is really annoying. I don't mind villages because they have long term use, and they fit in pretty well, but randon towers with no rhyme or reason kinda tick me off. Plus the towers with obsidian are hard to tear down.

I'd like the generation if it was toned down just a touch more, cluster-spawned with inhabitants, or felt more like ruins.

There actually is an option in the config for it to be toned done albeit obtuse.

I do agree though it'd be better to construct "ancient cities" of multiple combinations of the world gen structures or 'what's left of them'.
 

Jess887cp

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
922
2
1
There actually is an option in the config for it to be toned done albeit obtuse.

I do agree though it'd be better to construct "ancient cities" of multiple combinations of the world gen structures or 'what's left of them'.


I really need to spend more time in the configs.

*starts configuring things*
 

KirinDave

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
3,086
0
0
Mostly because you can generate an infinite amount of any resource you want.

And yes that includes all mod resources as well because you can manually add them to the config.

DoctorOr's setup has been posted many times.

And his setup isn't even the only setup! There are a few fast power loops. Even if you refuse to mechanize the base nexus, the dark nexus is easy to use. Of course, its really hard to quantify how that is actually different from having a frame quarry, except for the setup effort. And good systems like DoctorOr's involve a solid understanding of cross mod stuff and automation that a surprisingly large number of people seem to lack. Lots of people play Ars, very few use it the way he does.

Of course, Ars's method only gets you base CoFH metals and some objects. MineFactory reloaded also totally breaks Gregtech with its new mining method which–when powered correctly–also obviates Greg and is actually more powerful than Ars for resource collection.

The bigger question is, "What I'd the point of this mod pack?" If the point is to struggle to build a GT system in hard mode, Ars won't fit. My opinion is that once you've done that once it doesn't have much replay value.
 

Hoff

Tech Support
Oct 30, 2012
2,901
1,502
218
And his setup isn't even the only setup! There are a few fast power loops. Even if you refuse to mechanize the base nexus, the dark nexus is easy to use. Of course, its really hard to quantify how that is actually different from having a frame quarry, except for the setup effort. And good systems like DoctorOr's involve a solid understanding of cross mod stuff and automation that a surprisingly large number of people seem to lack. Lots of people play Ars, very few use it the way he does.

Of course, Ars's method only gets you base CoFH metals and some objects. MineFactory reloaded also totally breaks Gregtech with its new mining method which–when powered correctly–also obviates Greg and is actually more powerful than Ars for resource collection.

The bigger question is, "What I'd the point of this mod pack?" If the point is to struggle to build a GT system in hard mode, Ars won't fit. My opinion is that once you've done that once it doesn't have much replay value.
I agree but again much of the time the FTB team takes a blind eye(whether it be by choice, preference, or simply ignorance of the many ways things are comparatively valued) things are included or excluded. That's of course not to discount the work they have done for it but it some areas things are done for what is later shown to be arbitrary reasoning. The meta is changing fast and it can be hard for someone who is used to the old, slower pace meta to see things vastly different.
 

netmc

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
1,512
0
0
I've played with Ars Magica a bit in a test world, and I would have to say that it doesn't really compliment the tech based mods. Pairing it with MFR or soul shards is just ripe for abuse. Now if it were on its own, or with carefully selected mods, it would be a pretty neat combo. Just with a cursory look over it, I can see some pretty major power loops not to mention infinite item generation. I did see a thaumcraft based mod (thaumic tinkerer) which allows for item duplication using thaumcraft, but you have to provide the aspects necessary, plus with the limited supply of vis (without a major setup), it is self-limiting in what you can duplicate.

Ars Magica is a direct magic use mod, where thaumcraft is indirect. So I could see these being paired together in a world. From my cursory overview of Ars Magic, the two don't have a lot of overlap at the moment. I understand the need for a Magic World 2. Having played Magic World 1 for a bit, if I were including Ars Magica, there are a lot of other tech based mods that I would have to consider not including. TE, Railcraft, Forestry... I'm not saying I wouldn't include these, just that a good hard look would have to be taken to see if they compliment each other or provide too many cross-mod exploits. I played magic world 1 for quite a while before even getting involved with Thaumcraft, and that was the main magical mod.

As far as the world gen goes, I've come across way too many abandoned mage huts. I found 3 within a 50 block radius. Now if there were underground ones and the above ground ones were pared way back, it would be less of an issue. I understand that these houses are the source of new spells, and on a big server, you would need a lot of them for everyone's use, I think there are better ways to generate them for SMP play that don't spam them across the overworld.
 

whizzball1

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
2,502
0
0
Which is why I play RR. It has cool stuff like Ars and Metallurgy, which guess what?
FTB doesn't have.
Thank you, Kirin and friends, for the gift of RR.
 

Mjw

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
390
0
0
I like ars and i like it's worldgen (expect the ice cubes in the ocean) it lacks stuff in that it's just an empty tower with chests. I think it would be better if it had spawners and new interesting mobs, that make the tower a challange to conquer
 

Jess887cp

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
922
2
1
You RR guys make me lament my laziness.

Spamming structures over the overworld, not good. Spamming structures over another dimension, much better, imo. It's why I love the twilight.
 

KirinDave

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
3,086
0
0
Quick question: how is the ars object generator any different from a Dw20 frame miner in a mystcraft mining age? Have you folks seen MFR's mining laser system? Infinite certus quartz, gogogo.

Also, Ars power loops are mostly by design: you can have infinite essence with just Ars and vanilla mechanics.

Ironically, Thaumic Tinkerer's object fabrication is much more powerful than Ars's because of the design of the research system.
 

Technician

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
1,139
0
0
Quick question: how is the ars object generator any different from a Dw20 frame miner in a mystcraft mining age? Have you folks seen MFR's mining laser system? Infinite cert us quartz, gogogo.

Also, Ars power loops are mostly by design: you can have infinite essence with just Ars and vanilla mechanics.

Ironically, Thaumic Tinkerer's object fabrication is much more powerful than Ars's because of the design of the research system.


MFR mining Laser?

What?

WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY AND NOT IN ARS MAGICA WIZARDRY I MEAN..

Also, excluding the actual creation part, the spells are cool.
 

Mjw

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
390
0
0
MFR mining Laser?

What?

WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY AND NOT IN ARS MAGICA WIZARDRY I MEAN..

Also, excluding the actual creation part, the spells are cool.
I think he is referring to the new mfr thing in 1.5. You point a lazer down at bedrock and it makes ore for you
 

RichardG

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
16
0
0
I agree with the previously stated opinions. Ars Magica is intended to be used by itself, and can easily provide infinite resources once you're into it.

However, consider the bugs, such as unfairly OP mobs due to vanilla difficulty mechanics, or the render errors that it causes with turtles.
 

KirinDave

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
3,086
0
0
I agree with the previously stated opinions. Ars Magica is intended to be used by itself, and can easily provide infinite resources once you're into it.

However, consider the bugs, such as unfairly OP mobs due to vanilla difficulty mechanics, or the render errors that it causes with turtles.

I'm curious where you draw the dividing line with infinite materials, since you're on the IC2 project. Many people here can have "all the UU-matter" by setting up some basic automation, powered by most any type of automated tree farm and simple IC2 generators.

Do you think Ars's problem is that the system is too easy to automate? Or that it can produce materials that require no further processing? Or is it just how the essence system feels?

Because mechanically the "bricks to cracked bricks and tadaa stuff" is only slightly different from "trees to power to uu-matter to tadaa stuff!"
 

netmc

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
1,512
0
0
The MFR mining laser does require a fairly substantial power generation to support it though. From what I've seen, it is on par with the buildcraft quarry on item production, requires more power, but doesn't leave big holes in the ground, and you don't have to process all the cobble, dirt and gravel produced by a normal quarry. So I say it is a fair trade-off.
 

giesergast

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
193
0
0
the difference between this mining machines and the thing you can call a item dupe in ars magica is that minecraft is intended to have basicly infine resources from mining and if you think about ftb you think about ftb and if you talk about automation it really isnt weird to automate mining also both the machines that peaple sed where really creative machines of mining and i think it makes sense that you would be rewarded for being creative while the duping in ars magica is well not to original



back to the topic though: i do in the end want ars magica to be included to ftb if there are some things that ould be changed for ftb i dont now how the ftb makers and the mod developerr work together but mayhbe the can figure this out together
 

KirinDave

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
3,086
0
0
The MFR mining laser does require a fairly substantial power generation to support it though. From what I've seen, it is on par with the buildcraft quarry on item production, requires more power, but doesn't leave big holes in the ground, and you don't have to process all the cobble, dirt and gravel produced by a normal quarry. So I say it is a fair trade-off.

It vastly outperforms the quarry when set up properly. It takes a lot of power, but that's the easy part.