Anybody know a TRUE, cheap replacement for pneumatic tubes?

[Zealstarwind]

Mine was just having to continually render the objects. I set it up properly it would just drop my FPS with sphax which ironically I started using cause it gave me better fps. It was the reason I put my main sorting system underground in 1.4.7

I'd just quickly like to correct this: improperly setup pneumatic tube systems can cause tons of lag, exactly the same as BuildCraft pipes or Logistics Pipes. Setup a Pneumatic system PROPERLY and you'll never see lag.

That being said however.. Applied Energistics and Logistics Pipes really are the nail in the coffin for older systems like Pneumatic Tubes.

I'm not trying to be a dick here when I say this but, that's silly. Just because you never experienced it doesn't mean those who did and have a working knowledge of the systems never had lag... a grand cause of the lag is the very same thing that allowed it to run, Timers. Having too many timers in one chunk was hell on the game.

 

[Vaygrim]

I'm not trying to be a dick here when I say this but, that's silly. Just because you never experienced it doesn't mean others who did have a knowledge of the systems weren't able to stop the lag... a grand cause of the lag is the very same thing that allowed it to run (Timers) having too many timers in one chunk was hell on the game.

There used to actually be a really helpful thread here on the forums from the 1.4.7 FTB modpack heyday that had a bunch of pro-tips on how to minimize lag... a BIG chunk of which centered around the older style of BuildCraft pipes (they used to be pretty bad about lag) as well as Pneumatic Tube systems. One of the biggest tips I remember from it was the 'Master Timer' system. It centered around the concept of having only one redstone timer running for your entire system. Plug your master redstone timer into a Wireless Redstone Transmitter, and then plug a Wireless Redstone Receiver in everywhere you needed that 'master tick' from the timer. Another tip that used to be tossed around was to always use insulated red alloy wire instead of uninsulated as this prevented every block worth of red alloy wire from having to be visually updated with the graphic 'blink' / 'flash'. Following tips like this almost doubled my framerate in the old 1.4.7 FTB packs.

ANYWAY. My big point here, and I'm sorry I really didn't mean to come off like a jerk, was that it's all in the configuration. RedPower tube systems were laggy as all get out, I totally agree. That being said however, steps could be taken with ANY system to 'maximize performance'.. not just Pneumatic Tubes.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Another tip that used to be tossed around was to always use insulated red alloy wire instead of uninsulated as this prevented every block worth of red alloy wire from having to be visually updated with the graphic 'blink' / 'flash'.

I think the more significant problem is/was that the uninsulated wire would "power" the block that it is attached to, causing loads of unnecessary block updates. The insulated wires still had the problem that the server had to send packets to the client to tell it every time a wire updated, so that the client could decide whether the core of the wire was visible or not and needed a texture change. The same applies to vanilla redstone dust, but I don't think it apples to MFR Rednet cable. Fancy graphics have a cost.

Back on the main topic, I think it's worth pointing out that you don't just need the tubes if you want the RP2 behaviour of never spilling items. You need the machines that pump into the tubes. RP2 handles item overflow by having an infinite sized "backstuff" buffer in every machine that can input into the tube network.

 

[b0bst3r]

How do you get your initial nether quartz so fast (for the fluix)? 3 -Minecraft days- which is one RL hour of play. It would take that long to set up the portal.
What exactly is your idea of a small AE system? I'm guessing a controller and ME chest with storage and a couple of basic import/export busses (as I assume OP wants to automate, not merely store things).
How do you get it so fast?

Minimum stone + oak logs = obsidian, don't need diamonds to get obsidian.

You need 4 iron and 1 gold bar and a few mob drops

 

[Mero]

Minimum stone + oak logs = obsidian, don't need diamonds to get obsidian.

You need 4 iron and 1 gold bar and a few mob drops

I can find diamonds quicker than everything needed to make a minimum stone. You would have to wait an entire daytime for night to come or get lucky and find a spawner to get the 8 thingamajigs. Much easier to use the 4 iron needed to make the Inert Stone to make a bucket and flint and steel and pour a gate out.

 

[OmegaJasam]

I think the more significant problem is/was that the uninsulated wire would "power" the block that it is attached to, causing loads of unnecessary block updates. The insulated wires still had the problem that the server had to send packets to the client to tell it every time a wire updated, so that the client could decide whether the core of the wire was visible or not and needed a texture change. The same applies to vanilla redstone dust, but I don't think it apples to MFR Rednet cable. Fancy graphics have a cost.

An even bigger problem for most people were lighting updates if I recall correctly. If it changed the lighting of a room you could have a massive amount of lighting recalculations to do. (massive client side lag)

 

[PhilHibbs]

An even bigger problem for most people were lighting updates if I recall correctly. If it changed the lighting of a room you could have a massive amount of lighting recalculations to do. (massive client side lag)

That's a myth, although an oft-repeated one. RP2 components don't emit light. The red wire and the diddy little torches on the gates are just a light red texture.

 

[Zjarek_S]

An even bigger problem for most people were lighting updates if I recall correctly. If it changed the lighting of a room you could have a massive amount of lighting recalculations to do. (massive client side lag)

This is the problem with vanilla redstone. RP2 wires and gates don't cause light updates.

IMHO the biggest problem with performance of RP2 tubes is that most machines require redstone pulse to get item from inventory and not constant on or off signal (like hoppers, bc transport system, AE). Also block updates to machines when item is passing through aren't cheap. Backstuff mechanics also is lag prone when setup wrong, I very much prefer BC solution (throw it on the ground ), or RC/LP ones (don't take items when they are not needed).

 

[Zealstarwind]

They may have the texture but they can also give off light and if I'm not mistaken several other objects give off light as well like endertanks. Tho the light red texture may be a texture there is lighting involved in them, same as redstone torches give off light they use the same mechanic.

Also from my old modding days from dawn of war a trick I used to use to stop objects from giving off lights when I used them in the mod I'd set the values to zero, it's a visual trick but it would still calculate that into the code

basically "Set light value = 0" still had to do the computation of that, it may not cause much lag on it's own but it can still cause issues when a lot were used, I don't know if that was the actual reason but rp2 timers suffered from a ton of lag when you used 2 or more in the same chunk (on older comps)

 

[PhilHibbs]

They may have the texture but they can also give off light and if I'm not mistaken several other objects give off light as well like endertanks. Tho the light red texture may be a texture there is lighting involved in them, same as redstone torches give off light they use the same mechanic.

Not correct. I think the only RedPower2 components that give off light are the lamps, the blulectric furnace, and the alloy furnaces. Speaking of which, is there a way to turn off the glow from TE powered furnaces and pulverizers? My banks of auto-processing machines are causing a ton of lighting updates.

This is the problem with vanilla redstone. RP2 wires and gates don't cause light updates.

Vanilla redstone dust doesn't either. Redstone torches do, so a vanilla clock circuit that uses torches will cause lighting updates.

 

[Juanitierno]

I think I'm going to stick with ABO insertion pipes for now.[DOUBLEPOST=1379874929][/DOUBLEPOST]

You are the first person I know from Argentina that plays FTB (other than myself, )

 

[Vaygrim]

Regarding Pneumatic-Tube-Like-Systems, I really think the mod that best replicates that behaviour would be Logistics Pipes. It has guaranteed delivery, sorting options, intelligent routing, the works. It even has the same wonderful feature of negatively impacting your framerate! YAY!

 

[PhilHibbs]

Regarding Pneumatic-Tube-Like-Systems, I really think the mod that best replicates that behaviour would be Logistics Pipes. It has guaranteed delivery, sorting options, intelligent routing, the works. It even has the same wonderful feature of negatively impacting your framerate! YAY!

LP will spill items. It has to, if there's nowhere for it to go. I had Industrial Fertilizer all over the place while I was configuring my Fertilizers, and not because of broken pipes.

There are only four options for the item transportation problem:

1. Transfer them instantly (AE, Extra Utils)
2. Infinitely large backstuff buffer on the machines (RP)
3. Spill items on the floor (BC, LP)
4. Destroy excess items (I think BC used to do this if there were thousands of items in a pipe, not sure if it still does)

 

[Tylor]

Carts with hoppers, or even better, with RC unloaders, work great. No animations, no spilling, no quadratic growth of cpu load, no single item stacks running all over the place.[DOUBLEPOST=1379945605][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, BC will not spill, if you don't have dead ends, I think. So, make a circle, or overflow chest/void pipe. Or both.

 

[Vaygrim]

LP will spill items. It has to, if there's nowhere for it to go. I had Industrial Fertilizer all over the place while I was configuring my Fertilizers, and not because of broken pipes.

There are only four options for the item transportation problem:

1. Transfer them instantly (AE, Extra Utils)
2. Infinitely large backstuff buffer on the machines (RP)
3. Spill items on the floor (BC, LP)
4. Destroy excess items (I think BC used to do this if there were thousands of items in a pipe, not sure if it still does)

All it takes is two or three 'default destination' chests configured on your Logistics Pipe network and you will have 0% dropped items. You just have to be diligent and check your overflow chests regularly, just like you have to regularly check your drive storage levels on your Applied Energistics network. Logistics Pipes and Applied Energistics have almost no practical differences, only the functional methods in which they approach their goals. Both offer automated crafting, automated routing, machine interfaces, etc.

Technically Logistics Pipes has one up on Applied Energistics; Logistics Pipes can actually handle the routing of liquids while AE can't. Beyond that minor difference however they are nearly identical.

 

[Malexion]

LP will spill items. It has to, if there's nowhere for it to go. I had Industrial Fertilizer all over the place while I was configuring my Fertilizers, and not because of broken pipes.

There are only four options for the item transportation problem:

1. Transfer them instantly (AE, Extra Utils)
2. Infinitely large backstuff buffer on the machines (RP)
3. Spill items on the floor (BC, LP)
4. Destroy excess items (I think BC used to do this if there were thousands of items in a pipe, not sure if it still does)

Actually LP doesn't spill items, it kinda just bounces back and forth between logistics pipes in the line until it has somewhere to go, if there are too many items stuck it starts making explosions.

But that's actually not all that much better, also any pipe system with visual effects will lag like hell on an mfr tree farm, frames just drop like mad.

So LP while being a nice early game system, should be mostly phased out by the late game AE after a few days in game. Some lp functions are nice to keep around however.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Actually LP doesn't spill items,

Hm, I could have sworn I'd seen it happen.

 

[Vaygrim]

Actually LP doesn't spill items, it kinda just bounces back and forth between logistics pipes in the line until it has somewhere to go, if there are too many items stuck it starts making explosions.

But that's actually not all that much better, also any pipe system with visual effects will lag like hell on an mfr tree farm, frames just drop like mad.

So LP while being a nice early game system, should be mostly phased out by the late game AE after a few days in game. Some lp functions are nice to keep around however.

While other systems like Logistics Pipes definitely have the capabilities of Applied Energistics, AE really wins out with being so framerate friendly. Covered ME Cables and configuration file adjustments means that you don't have a lot of items or visual effects 'whizzing about'. AE blocks being able to gain power via direct adjacent contact reduces the amount of cables you need as well as the over all powerload. You get one consolidated interface for manual crafting, autocrafting, inventory, the works. Plus Applied Energistics even interfaces with Barrels, Deep Storage Units, Iron Chests and more via storage buses.

Yes you can do everything that Applied Energistics is capable of with Logistics Pipes, AE just pulls it off smoother and simpler. (shrug)[DOUBLEPOST=1379952416][/DOUBLEPOST]

Hm, I could have sworn I'd seen it happen.

When you set up an LP network, you have to define at least one storage location (i.e. a chest) that is the 'Default Routing Location'. Anything that has no place to go.. ends up there. If you fail to do this, you have stuff just 'bounce around' your network. Since every movement of an item and every transaction on the LP network requires power, this starts to build up massive power consumption because of all of the bouncing items. Once this power usage starts to spike above a certain threshold, the most active pipe segment of your LP network will EXPLODE, spraying items onto the floor.

This should, in theory at least, be the only situation where a Logistics Pipe network will start dropping items.

 

[Loufmier]

Yes you can do everything that Applied Energistics is capable of with Logistics Pipes, AE just pulls it off smoother and simpler. (shrug)

Supplier pipe. beat that AE.

 

[Vaygrim]

Supplier pipe. beat that AE.

I really would love for AE to be able to handle liquids as well, just like Logistics Pipes can. I know the Extra Cells addon mod can add this function but it is rather buggy for my preferences.