An out of the box approach...

[casilleroatr]

You brush over one of the key problems: Pastebin. You don't even need to be able to code. All you need is to pastebin someone else's code and you're done. The mod author even fully admitted that one of the major balancing features of CC is the challenge of writing code. Even assuming this is a valid point, Pastebin completely eliminates it.

Can you disable the crafting of turtles entirely? No turtles, no way, no how, ever? If so, then I would reconsider CC.

I intentionally glossed over pastebin, not because I don't think its a valid concern but I was focusing on the other point. I just had a look through the CC config file and I didn't see an option to disable configs i'm afraid. Maybe its something to suggest to the author. You might know this already but I will mention it anyway, there is a config option that allows you to enable/disable the HTTP api. I am pretty sure that it will also disable the pastebin program if you set it to false.

As a mod pack maker, are you concerned about end users changing your configs to enable a feature that changes the vision* you have behind the pack.

*Sorry for the cheesy word. I couldn't think of a better one.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

As a mod pack maker, are you concerned about end users changing your configs to enable a feature that changes the vision* you have behind the pack.

*Sorry for the cheesy word. I couldn't think of a better one.

Not in the least. The job of a mod pack is to provide an enjoyable experience for the end-user. If that user has more fun with, for example, Turtles enabled while it is disabled by default... well, that's great, and they can do that. However, my job as a mod pack maker is also to provide a reasonably balanced mod pack for my users to enjoy, and turtles are to balance what Russia is to Napoleon.

ATLauncher gives me a way to provide 'optional' mods which are disabled by default but the user can elect to use. Perhaps when I build the mod pack on ATLauncher, I'll set up CC as an optional mod since so many people want it.

 

[gattsuru]

Any other flags we'd need?

An Item Transversing modifier would be nice, although much of its benefits can be replicated through AE design. AE's just not terribly good at it.

Can you disable the crafting of turtles entirely? No turtles, no way, no how, ever? If so, then I would reconsider CC.

[strike]In CCTurtle, set the IDs for both Turtles and Advanced Turtles to 0.[/strike]
Nevermind. The only way to remove them completely is to delete the ComputerCraft1.53.zip\dan200\CCTurtle.class, ComputerCraft1.53.zip\dan200\CCTurtle$Items.class, and ComputerCraft1.53.zip\dan200\CCTurtle$Blocks.class

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

An Item Transversing modifier would be nice, although much of its benefits can be replicated through AE design. AE's just not terribly good at it.

That would be hard since there would be nothing you could detect traversing since you aren't using pipes.

[strike]In CCTurtle, set the IDs for both Turtles and Advanced Turtles to 0.[/strike]
Nevermind. The only way to remove them completely is to delete the ComputerCraft1.53.zip\dan200\CCTurtle.class, ComputerCraft1.53.zip\dan200\CCTurtle$Items.class, and ComputerCraft1.53.zip\dan200\CCTurtle$Blocks.class

Yea... I'm not ready to start deleting classes, and that's actually not possible in ATLauncher anyways, so not bloody likely.

 

[casilleroatr]

With the new stuff in computer craft it might be possible to do a work around for the item traversing thing. (Might be useful on MFR conveyors?). They added a new "change in inventory" event. If you route the pipe, belt whatever through a turtle that is waiting for a change to its inventory, when the event is triggered it could count whats in its inventory and then do a output a redstone signal and then deposit its inventory on the outgoing end.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Actually, Vanilla Comparator can be easily used as an inventory (percent) flag. Hook it up to MFR Rednet with a PRC that can detect the level given by the comparator and respond when it hits the desired level. I don't think it would work for liquids or power, though.

 

[Norren]

Actually, Vanilla Comparator can be easily used as an inventory (percent) flag. Hook it up to MFR Rednet with a PRC that can detect the level given by the comparator and respond when it hits the desired level. I don't think it would work for liquids or power, though.

If xycraft updates, I'd imagine a comparator would interface nicely with the Xycraft tank level emitter block.

You wouldn't really need to make the comparator work for power, would you? You could just set up comparator levels so that when inventory is nonempty, the Rednet controller switches on your engines.

 

[Vilmos]

With the new stuff in computer craft it might be possible to do a work around for the item traversing thing. (Might be useful on MFR conveyors?). They added a new "change in inventory" event. If you route the pipe, belt whatever through a turtle that is waiting for a change to its inventory, when the event is triggered it could count whats in its inventory and then do a output a redstone signal and then deposit its inventory on the outgoing end.

That just lead me to a vision of replacing all pipes with turtles examining an item and tossing to the next turtle in the line. Who needs pipes when you have turtles! It is kind of like the golem bucket brigade that I have seen before.

 

[KingTriaxx]

The problem with saying Pastebin makes coding irrelevant is that the ability to share code on a forum makes it irrelevant as well. All I have to do is sit and transfer code from the post to the turtle and I've duplicated the effect of pastebin.

I can see the negatives of Computer Craft in other situations, but at the same time, isn't the point of most mods to duplicate what the player can do? MFR adds grinders to kill mobs for the player, breeders so you don't have to feed the critters. Chronotypers so you don't have to manually sort them. Frankly the only thing Turtles can do that most blocks can't is move. And use tools, but Thaumic Tinkerer is adding a block that can react to redstone and use right or left-click functions of a tool placed in it. It could be used to wrench conduits or liquiducts.

Heck, I don't even see the argument against turtle quarries. If nothing else just make them prohibitively expensive. Seven diamonds, a block of redstone and an advanced computer. There, now it's a late game item. Game Balance by brute force.

---

Back to the original issue. The only thing I actually use out of Buildcraft is the Assembly Table and the Lasers, because it's cheaper on resources to craft AE processors. But my power is all produced with Forestry Ethanol in Railcraft Steam Boilers running steam engines. I don't think I've ever used any BC engine except a redstone engine to pump lava. And only then to power up the magmatics feeding into a Tesseract feeding into the pump.

 

[casilleroatr]

The problem with saying Pastebin makes coding irrelevant is that the ability to share code on a forum makes it irrelevant as well. All I have to do is sit and transfer code from the post to the turtle and I've duplicated the effect of pastebin.

I can see the negatives of Computer Craft in other situations, but at the same time, isn't the point of most mods to duplicate what the player can do? MFR adds grinders to kill mobs for the player, breeders so you don't have to feed the critters. Chronotypers so you don't have to manually sort them. Frankly the only thing Turtles can do that most blocks can't is move. And use tools, but Thaumic Tinkerer is adding a block that can react to redstone and use right or left-click functions of a tool placed in it. It could be used to wrench conduits or liquiducts.

Heck, I don't even see the argument against turtle quarries. If nothing else just make them prohibitively expensive. Seven diamonds, a block of redstone and an advanced computer. There, now it's a late game item. Game Balance by brute force.

The people who complain about pastebin in computercraft tend to do so because it removes the core balancing mechanic from computercraft. Turtles (and to a lesser degree computers) are potentially very powerful blocks. They are balanced not by having expensive recipes, but by being very dumb and almost useless until the user programs them to make them better. This is bypassed both by pastebin and from copying a program from a forum post or elsewhere (the only difference is that pastebin copies code automatically). People who are complaining about pastebin are also complaining about manual copying so there isn't really a problem.

Most mods that duplicate (and automate) what the player can do do so by adding a new block to perform a particular function. Turtles are different because they are universal. They can do almost any job if you can program it. One of the arguments against turtles appears to be that they are bad not because they can automate a task, but because they can automate (almost) any task. MFR breeders can automate a task (one, breeding), but not any task. The only thing that turtles can do that most blocks can't is move, and a ton of other stuff to (which you half concede with the "and use tools").

I am glad that computer craft attempts to balance its content differently to other mods ("just make it cost a gajillion diamonds and it will be ok"). Ultimately, it is up to the individual to decide if they want to play with computer craft, and if they do to copy other peoples code.

 

[netmc]

Shneekey, I salute your willingness to look at your collection of mods and consider this leap.

With regards to computercraft. In DW20's recent 1.6 spotlight, computer programs can now be distributed as a minecraft resource pack. No pastebin required. So disabling http for computercraft won't remove the issue of being able to get programs easily. -- I also fully agree with Shneekey on Computercraft. I have never, nor ever plan to use computercraft with minecraft. The closest I have come to programming inside of minecraft is MFR Rednet. I have no desire to do more.


I have one setup in my current world which cannot be replicated using TE. It requires use of buildcraft power pipes for efficiency. I use BC power pipes for my MFR tree farm. TE conduits spread out power evenly between all available machines. BC fills the closest machine first, then fills the next if you under supply it with power. I actually use this as a feature. I have a BC engine powering the planter, harvester and then finally the fertilizer. With TE, the fertilizer would get energy at the same rate as the harvester. This gives me a 3x3 "tree" with oaks, with a bunch of leaf blocks (and saplings and apples) missed due to multiple trees growing at once. With BC power pipes, the power goes to the harvester first, and only after it has harvested the 1x1 tree in its entirety and refilled its internal power buffer will the fertilizer receive any energy. The fertilizer will only receive enough power to fertilize 1 (occasionally 2) trees before the harvester fires up and quickly drains all its power harvesting the grown tree, starting the cycle over. I maximize the number of leaf blocks (and saplings and apples) this way.

I too have thought about removing BC from my modpack as most of its features I never use. There are 1-2 applications though that I just can't get around, and sometimes the dumb pipe system really is the best at doing certain things.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I have one setup in my current world which cannot be replicated using TE. It requires use of buildcraft power pipes for efficiency. I use BC power pipes for my MFR tree farm. TE conduits spread out power evenly between all available machines. BC fills the closest machine first, then fills the next if you under supply it with power. I actually use this as a feature. I have a BC engine powering the planter, harvester and then finally the fertilizer. With TE, the fertilizer would get energy at the same rate as the harvester. This gives me a 3x3 "tree" with oaks, with a bunch of leaf blocks (and saplings and apples) missed due to multiple trees growing at once. With BC power pipes, the power goes to the harvester first, and only after it has harvested the 1x1 tree in its entirety and refilled its internal power buffer will the fertilizer receive any energy. The fertilizer will only receive enough power to fertilize 1 (occasionally 2) trees before the harvester fires up and quickly drains all its power harvesting the grown tree, starting the cycle over. I maximize the number of leaf blocks (and saplings and apples) this way.

I too have thought about removing BC from my modpack as most of its features I never use. There are 1-2 applications though that I just can't get around, and sometimes the dumb pipe system really is the best at doing certain things.

You can tell the planter to plant just one sapling in the middle of the 3 x 3, and it will do just that... this obviates your problem with a 3 x 3 block of wood and most of the leaf blocks missing, since it will only plant one tree at a time.

 

[netmc]

You can tell the planter to plant just one sapling in the middle of the 3 x 3, and it will do just that... this obviates your problem with a 3 x 3 block of wood and most of the leaf blocks missing, since it will only plant one tree at a time.

Thanks, don't know why I didn't think of that. This will simplify the mess of BC pipes I have now. You can scratch that issue off the list then.

 

[KingTriaxx]

I don't really understand that problem, but I'm also willing to admit that I'm very bad at even the simple programming used in computers, and that there are people much better than me at it. I'm willing to use it, because that's why they put it out.

Same goes for just about any mod.

 

[PhilHibbs]

With regards to computercraft. In DW20's recent 1.6 spotlight, computer programs can now be distributed as a minecraft resource pack. No pastebin required. So disabling http for computercraft won't remove the issue of being able to get programs easily.

Can these resource packs be loaded onto the client and then accessed by the turtle? Surely the server has to have the resource pack, as that's the side that's determining what the turtle can do?

 

[netmc]

Can these resource packs be loaded onto the client and then accessed by the turtle? Surely the server has to have the resource pack, as that's the side that's determining what the turtle can do?

I have no idea. I haven't looked at the changelog, nor plan on using the mod, so someone else will have to fill in that information.