AE eating too much BC power?

[DaemosDaen]

FTB unleashed v 1.1.3

According to the ae wiki, the Q Bridge should only need 40mj/t. (link: http://ae-mod.info/ME-Quantum-Network-Bridge/)

I have connected it via quartz conductive pipes (64 mj/t, resistance removed from conductive pipes by CoverJaguar in BC 3.7.0. unleashed 1.1.3 uses BC 3.7.2)

The line is red indicating that it wants more power than 64mj/t did someone/thing mess with the power conversion for the AE system?

 

[DaemosDaen]

Further testing

power production: 5 steam boilers powering a total of 80 Industrial steam engines for a total of 640 MJ/t produced running across a diamond conductive pipe backbone

Power draws:
1 quarry connected via tesseract (100mj)
1 pulverizer and powered furnace processing ore (6 mj/t)
1 squeezer (6 mj)
2 fermenters (one only running when apple juice is available) (12 MJ, 6mj each)
6 stills running when biomass is available. (36MJ/t (6mj each)
2 multiblock tree farms (less than 2 MJ/t)
my AE network requesting about 160/t units on average (per the site this should only be 32 mj/t)

My total should only be 194

yet every single engine is turned by the gate functions and I swear the visual clue shows half the power diverted to the ME network.

an image of the ME network's power connections:

 

[KhrFreak]

got it backwards there Red line means theres too much power trying to go through there and it's being throttled. (ie) 100mj trying to go down a quartz pipe which can only take 64

 

[namae]

It's beyond my understanding why people still use conductive pipes instead of redstone energy conduits.

 

[Yusunoha]

It's beyond my understanding why people still use conductive pipes instead of redstone energy conduits.

you apparently didn't look at the picture good enough. Daemos is using the new buildcraft conductive pipes, not the old ones.
the new ones are much much more efficient then the old ones.

 

[namae]

you apparently didn't look at the picture good enough. Daemos is using the new buildcraft conductive pipes, not the old ones.
the new ones are much much more efficient then the old ones.

How exactly they are better than redstone conduits?

 

[Omicron]

They cost almost nothing, require no special infrastructure and still have absolutely zero loss over distance.

Also, with the new Buildcraft energy system introducing power perdition (passive energy loss) to the machines themselves, it can be a disadvantage to use conduits in some cases, because the conduit will evenly split all power between all destinations. If you have a big assembly table setup with 12-16 lasers, that's a massive power sink even if nothing is being lasered (between 0.5 to 1 MJ/t passive loss per laser). Conduits will always treat that passive power need as equal with all other machine's needs, so they're constantly routing energy there for no reason.

Buildcraft pipes however operate on a first come, first served principle - the closest machine to request power gets the lion's share. So if you set up a workshop where rarely used but passively power hungry machines (assembly lasers, thermionic fabricators) are sitting at the end of a long kinesis pipe (new name for conductive pipes), you can in fact use a machine that's closer to the start of the pipe and it will get first dibs on all power coming by. Instead of going to the lasers to dissipate passively, it goes straight into your machine to do work. That means less power overprovisioning necessary.

Furthermore you can use the new pipes to throttle power input to individual machines. That thermionic fabricator over there constantly drains 16 MJ/t? Just make the last pipe section a cobblestone kinesis pipe, and it'll only get 8 MJ/t. It will still heat up to 50%, which is more than enough to smelt glass and perform its job.

Overally, they are not strictly better - they just got buffed to finally being just as useful, while still being cheaper, and offering the occasional neat trick to pull off in power system setups. Obviously if your setup is somehow impaired by the "closest machine first" power distribution, then using conduits works just as well as ever.

 

[DaemosDaen]

got it backwards there Red line means theres too much power trying to go through there and it's being throttled. (ie) 100mj trying to go down a quartz pipe which can only take 64

There should only be 40 MJ going through the pipe tho, the only thing connected to it is the Q-Bridge[DOUBLEPOST=1379981028][/DOUBLEPOST]

They cost almost nothing, require no special infrastructure and still have absolutely zero loss over distance.

Also, with the new Buildcraft energy system introducing power perdition (passive energy loss) to the machines themselves, it can be a disadvantage to use conduits in some cases, because the conduit will evenly split all power between all destinations. If you have a big assembly table setup with 12-16 lasers, that's a massive power sink even if nothing is being lasered (between 0.5 to 1 MJ/t passive loss per laser). Conduits will always treat that passive power need as equal with all other machine's needs, so they're constantly routing energy there for no reason.

Buildcraft pipes however operate on a first come, first served principle - the closest machine to request power gets the lion's share. So if you set up a workshop where rarely used but passively power hungry machines (assembly lasers, thermionic fabricators) are sitting at the end of a long kinesis pipe (new name for conductive pipes), you can in fact use a machine that's closer to the start of the pipe and it will get first dibs on all power coming by. Instead of going to the lasers to dissipate passively, it goes straight into your machine to do work. That means less power overprovisioning necessary.

Furthermore you can use the new pipes to throttle power input to individual machines. That thermionic fabricator over there constantly drains 16 MJ/t? Just make the last pipe section a cobblestone kinesis pipe, and it'll only get 8 MJ/t. It will still heat up to 50%, which is more than enough to smelt glass and perform its job.

Overally, they are not strictly better - they just got buffed to finally being just as useful, while still being cheaper, and offering the occasional neat trick to pull off in power system setups. Obviously if your setup is somehow impaired by the "closest machine first" power distribution, then using conduits works just as well as ever.

You also forgot the part where conduit has a mystical limit. (I KNOW it's less than 256 as it was not able to effectivly move 2 boilers worth of MJ in my last build with it.) While BC piping simply tells you what it is.

 

[King Lemming]

There should only be 40 MJ going through the pipe tho, the only thing connected to it is the Q-Bridge[DOUBLEPOST=1379981028][/DOUBLEPOST]

You also forgot the part where conduit has a mystical limit. (I KNOW it's less than 256 as it was not able to effectivly move 2 boilers worth of MJ in my last build with it.) While BC piping simply tells you what it is.

Incorrect. It's 1000.

 

[MigukNamja]

Ah, I didn't know it was 1000. But, I have verified it's at least 800 MJ/t in 1.5.2 . I can keep 8x MFR Laser Pre-chargers fully fed with a single Energy Conduit - tested by putting a Redstone Energy Cell on each pre-charger and testing at 100/100, 95/100, and 100/95 in/out. 100/100 keeps same stored energy, 100/95 slowly charges and 95/100 slowly discharges.

I haven't measured since I added 4 more, but if 1000 is correct, that means I'm wasting some my MJ production. Bad news : I'll have to split my main power production and run another, completely separate power conduit. Good news : I should recover some power I hadn't realized I was losing !

 

[Omicron]

I'm fairly sure it's 1000 MJ/t from one connection to another, for each possible individual pairing.

There's no such thing as a limit on power transfer over distance, because conduits don't "transfer" power as such. They just allow an input connection to talk to an output connection so they can exchange energy. Much like a Bittorrent swarm as a whole doesn't have a limit on its data throughput, only the individual people uploading (input) and downloading (output) do.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, King )

 

[MigukNamja]

Thanks as always, Omicron. To clarify, here's an example using my actual current power setup.

I have 10x 36HP biolers (1,440 MJ/t) chained together using conduit and that conduit then feeds twelve(12) laser pre-chargers, each demanding 100MJ/t for a total of 1,200MJ/t. The excess goes into a bank of Energy Cells, which then goes to my main base. I drain the cells when I'm doing ExtraBees and they refill overnight.

Will the single conduit network throttle the transfer to 1000MJ/t ?

Or, is the 1000MJ/t simply on a per-connection basis similar to how liquiducts work ? I'm struggling to think of a single block (connection) that produces or consumes over 100MJ/t (maybe PowerConvertors is capable of that, but that's a different story/case), so 1000MJ/t per connection is like 10x more than what is required in Unleashed, which is a good thing, IMHO. I prefer my cars to be capable of 700mph, even if I only ever need to go 70mph ;-)

 

[DaemosDaen]

Incorrect. It's 1000.

I did not know that, haven't played much MC since Gregtech's ... issuet.

My issue described here is that I have 640mj/t being requested by the system when it should only be 192. Anyone have any info?

 

[King Lemming]

Thanks as always, Omicron. To clarify, here's an example using my actual current power setup.

I have 10x 36HP biolers (1,440 MJ/t) chained together using conduit and that conduit then feeds twelve(12) laser pre-chargers, each demanding 100MJ/t for a total of 1,200MJ/t. The excess goes into a bank of Energy Cells, which then goes to my main base. I drain the cells when I'm doing ExtraBees and they refill overnight.

Will the single conduit network throttle the transfer to 1000MJ/t ?

Or, is the 1000MJ/t simply on a per-connection basis similar to how liquiducts work ? I'm struggling to think of a single block (connection) that produces or consumes over 100MJ/t (maybe PowerConvertors is capable of that, but that's a different story/case), so 1000MJ/t per connection is like 10x more than what is required in Unleashed, which is a good thing, IMHO. I prefer my cars to be capable of 700mph, even if I only ever need to go 70mph ;-)

Omicron is correct - it's 1000 MJ/t on any given connection. This may change in the future, but the idea is that there is (or was, at least) no legitimate block that actually produces or consumes 1000 MJ/t. The bandwidth of a conduit network is essentially limited to 1000 * N / 2, where N is the combined number of producers and consumers on the system. The conduit network essentially acts as a ballast in the way a real power system operates, only I am using the total MJ in the system as a way of approximating frequency. In the steady state condition, it's much more likely that you are either slightly overproducing or slightly underproducing, in which case the system equivalizes around that. TE engines are based around the idea of slight overproduction, and then throttle back.