About the Custom Packs! :)

[LazDude2012]

Hello FTB! In case you can't read a little to the left, I'm LazDude, and I'd like to bring up an interesting topic today.

I'm not a server admin, not really, although I regulate admissions to one. This server doesn't use any of the FTB packs, and it doesn't use Tekkit Lite either. How, oh how, am I going to distribute the mods and configs to my users? Well, traditionally, I'd zip up a MultiMC instance, upload it to my Dropbox, and only give the link to my users. In fact, that's how I currently do it. However, what if I'd like to use a nicer launcher than MultiMC? Well, I've got 2 options. FTB or Technic. Let's explore how my private server pack works in both options. In Technic Launcher, my users download the launcher, click Options, and paste the link to the pack. The launcher downloads and uses that modpack, easy as 3.14159. Wow, that was simple.

How would my users get my pack in FTB launcher? Well, I don't actually think anyone has a private FTB pack yet, but the procedure is apparently:
1. Get permissions (which shouldn't be necessary for a private pack) from all modders.
2. Verify perms with the FTB crew. (once more, a strange step to require)
3. Make modpack, with all mods and configs, and zip it up.
4. Give ZIP to the FTB crew.
5. Get code, if Slowpoke feels like it.
6. Give code to users.
7. Users paste code, and get pack.

OK, that seems a bit longwinded, more so than doing it manually in fact! So, with this process, why would anyone do this instead of the current system, or Technic's system?

You see, that part's not what I'm most disappointed in. The worst part is the missed potential. I had envisioned the private pack codes as a repository of sorts, where I merely picked my mods and configs, (from a central repository) and clicked a button. Boom! I would have a private pack code. It could have been that way. That wouldn't even be that hard to implement, and it would have blown not only Technic, but MultiMC, out of the water. It would have been revolutionary, and fostered a new spirit of cooperation between modders and users. Unfortunately, instead of that awesome system, you now have a system of "automatic" private packs that's more of a pain to deal with than the manual way. It defeats its own purpose.

Please, discuss! I'd love to hear what you folks think, this is just my thoughts on the matter.

**EDIT: minor fixes

 

[540howdy]

I was expecting the team to get as much permissions as possible, and stuff them all into the launcher into a repository allowing users to handpick what mods they wanted.
So yeah, if the team could get a lot of permissions then the user would not have to do the steps you have shown..
So the new steps would be:

1. Handpick mods out of the large FTB mod list (not all may be in the already made modpacks)
2. Get code
3. Share code with friends
4. Profit

Seems like a simple solution isn't it?

 

[LazDude2012]

I thought so too, but for the time being, my server pack will be using Technic Launcher. (Also, Technic launcher shows your skin, and you can click your character to log in! How cool is that?!)

 

[Entropy]

I thought so too, but for the time being, my server pack will be using Technic Launcher. (Also, Technic launcher shows your skin, and you can click your character to log in! How cool is that?!)

The wonders of the custom .zip feature, you can just overwrite one of the packs in the launcher, and make a whole new pack for you and your users, without having to go through any sort of permissions stuff or approval (for a private modpack? why?) stuff. I just got Plus+ working on mine, so I've got 106 mods to play with, and its a wonderful thing.

 

[Exedra]

I thought so too, but for the time being, my server pack will be using Technic Launcher. (Also, Technic launcher shows your skin, and you can click your character to log in! How cool is that?!)

I wouldn't praise and say how "great" tekkit is around here.

 

[Entropy]

I wouldn't praise and say how "great" tekkit is around here.

Please don't come in here just to make a jab at Lazdude, it's pretty low of you, and it sure doesn't help the topic at hand.

 

[Belone]

I think based on what I've been reading it's really down to what mods you want to run. From what I've read it looks like it will be easy to create modpacks using FTB, as long as you only want to use the mods that FTB has permission for, as you'll just say "I want this mod and this mod, but not this mod", and then use the generated code, so you may not even need to have a place to store the modpack, it will just download it from FTB (I may have completely misunderstood). Alternatively the Technic Launcher will be better if you want to use mods not available to FTB, for the reasons given - that you can just download.

I think ultimately we need to wait and see what happens with the FTB custom modpacks is properly fully launched.

 

[MrZwij]

I think I agree with the basic sentiment here - FTB is hurting the private pack with excessive requirements for permissions. But I also think FTB is doing the right thing by insisting mod developers be allowed to control how their work is used and distributed. Sometimes you have to push hard to reverse inertia.

To me the ideal solution is for Slowpoke to give mod developers a place to answer this multiple-choice question:

Do you give permissions to FTB to distribute your mod?
a.) Yes, FTB may distribute my mod in public and private packs without further permissions
b.) Yes, in public packs, but each private pack must receive permission from me
c.) No (the default answer)

Then give users a way to hand-compile a private pack, on their own, using mods that have been given blanket permissions. If they wish to use any others, they'd have to follow the current steps of showing proof of permissions for any mod whose developer chose b.) above.

 

[LazDude2012]

Honestly, Technic is too foolhardy, rushing in without permissions, but FTB seems to overcompensate. Private packs should not need permissions, as they're private.

 

[Belone]

Honestly, Technic is too foolhardy, rushing in without permissions, but FTB seems to overcompensate. Private packs should not need permissions, as they're private.

Some might argue though that this was kind of where Technic Pack started. It was just a private pack that went viral, so had to retrospectively acquire permissions, so maybe the same thing could happen with a modpack created using FTB launcher/Technic launcher. It's intended for a small private audience but then accidentally gets huge and so maybe that's where the FTB launcher will pay off, at least you know you've got the permissions if this does happen. Just a thought.

 

[danidas]

Some might argue though that this was kind of where Technic Pack started. It was just a private pack that went viral, so had to retrospectively acquire permissions, so maybe the same thing could happen with a modpack created using FTB launcher/Technic launcher. It's intended for a small private audience but then accidentally gets huge and so maybe that's where the FTB launcher will pay off, at least you know you've got the permissions if this does happen. Just a thought.

That is my exact thought and concern with the whole easy to use private pack mechanic as their is nothing stopping some one from distributing your pack code or zip location. Which opens up the can of worms of where does a private pack end and a public one begin.

Technically the moment you post the code/zip location in a public place such as your servers advertisement post it is no longer private.

 

[LazDude2012]

Belone: here's where my personal attitude comes in. The permissions really shouldn't matter. Freely redistributing freely distributed mods to a game that allows free distribution of mods? Nothing wrong there. Personally, as long as the mod authors get credit, (and hopefully a donation link) it's fine. But you're right. The private pack ended up being not so private. Here's the thing though: back then, Technic was unique-ish. People used the Technic pack, a private pack, because there were no public packs. My server pack isn't going to be "The best thing since sliced bread" because people won't be searching for my server pack. They'll look for FTB, or Technic.

Technic's situation was unique, and people should cut them a bit of slack on this. Unfortunately, people did no such thing. Personally, I'm appalled at the "oh noes mah copy writes" attitude of the community, and Curse and MCForums are largely to blame. It seems more and more mods are going open source, and the community cooperation is getting better, but really, guys. Come on. If you're worried that private packs will suddenly explode, consider this: Server packs are not of much use to the public these days. Here, have the link to mine, it's a full T-Launcher instance. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bwob3EQvVt4UeVpRRWF5V056Yzg Nobody's going to use it unless they want to get on my server? Why? Some of the mods are outdated (ok, a lot of mods), it may not have all the mods they like (Gregtech can burn in a fire), and it's just, in general, not as good as FTB in most cases. However, it's the only pack that lets you join my server. It's only good for a very specific audience, and as such, won't go viral like Technic did.

 

[TheLoneWolfling]

Yep. agreed on all counts.

As-is, the private pack "feature" is useless. It's going through all of the hoops to make a private pack (and more!), and what do you get? The ability to tell users "Download the FTB pack, enter this code, and you're good.", as opposed to "Here's the one-time link to the private pack."

It doesn't simplify things for clients, and it doesn't simplify things for server admins. About the only thing you gain is not having to host the files - and either you're running a small server, in which case DropBox/etc. works, or you're running a larger server, in which case you have dedicated hosting anyway, and can host the files.

My suggestion would be to either:

1. Only allow mods in any of the official packs if they allow permissions for private packs distributed through the FTB launcher (This may be a bit drastic, but is the only way that I can see of actually getting some mod authors to grant said permissions. If anyone has any other suggestions, please tell me)
2. Allow private packs to include links to be downloaded or opened client-side when the pack is installed, assuming that 1) is not in effect and a mod author doesn't give permissions.

 

[GreenWolf13]

Something that not alot of people seem to have realized yet is that the custom zip feature of the technic launcher isn't limited to just mod packs. It could be used as a sort of "auto-installer" for individual mods. A mod author could upload a .zip with their mod in it, then give people a link to put in their launcher, simplifying installation of individual mods even more.

 

[mrcheesete0]

That is my exact thought and concern with the whole easy to use private pack mechanic as their is nothing stopping some one from distributing your pack code or zip location. Which opens up the can of worms of where does a private pack end and a public one begin.

Technically the moment you post the code/zip location in a public place such as your servers advertisement post it is no longer private.

Made an account just to reply to this.

I (did) a private modpack server until i decided to switch to FTB for the ease-of-installation it provides, and I would consider my pack to have been private ,even though I directly just copy pasted my minecraft fodler and gave it to people to overwrite theirs with, why? Because of the bolded worlds above, your suggestion isn't private. Any server you advertize to others is a public server. My servers are private in the sense that in order to even know my servers EXIST, you have to be a member of one of two small communities, looking through these communities' forums, and find the topic within concerning minecraft and then look at it to find out about my server.

outside of these two communities, my blood relatives, my tech guy who runs my dedi, and a handful of real life friends and coworkers (and the IRC linked to the server), my servers don't "exist" on the internet.
^thats my definition of private, the server is a server made for an already-established community not centered on minecraft, that just has an abnormally large number of minecraft players looking to play together. Half of my players don't use/know MCforums exists.

 

[Entropy]

That is my exact thought and concern with the whole easy to use private pack mechanic as their is nothing stopping some one from distributing your pack code or zip location. Which opens up the can of worms of where does a private pack end and a public one begin.

Technically the moment you post the code/zip location in a public place such as your servers advertisement post it is no longer private.

This might be true, but there's not really a good way to deal with the problem. You can't stop people from using your pack outside its intended purpose (which people argue is what happened to Technic). Lazdude has a good point though, no one outside of his server has any reason to use that pack, because it is a pack for that server. Technic or FTB are meant as a wholesale pack, not some special thing that only works for one thing.

 

[danidas]

My point of view is that their is nothing stopping someone from making a tekkit lite plus custom pack with forestry, railcraft, and thaumcraft preinstalled and advertising it. Which would naturally be popular due the nature of these mods and with how easy it is to make custom zip packs their would be little the mod authors could do to stop it beyond playing whack a mole. This would naturally whack the private pack permission bee hive and cause even more drama then already exists.

Also note as we all know technic started out as a small private pack much like mrcheesete0's pack over on the something awful forums. That was until the yogcast who are also from the same forum discovered it and made their spot light triggering its popularity, which the rest is history.

 

[LazDude2012]

Like I said earlier though, there's a clear difference between then and now.
Technic was the first of its kind. People only used the Technic private pack because there were no public packs.
These days, there is literally no reason for anyone to use the JSTRCraft mod pack, unless they're on the JSTRCraft server. FTB Direwolf pack is superior in every way. People aren't going to search "JSTRCraft 2.1.zip" on Google. They'll search "Minecraft mod pack" and get to FTB or Technic.

 

[Caito]

I don't understand why you have to go through that long process. I thought the "private packs" were gonna be a button on the launcher saying something like "custom modpack" and when you click it you get a list of all the mods and get to pick the ones you want. Why do you need permission from the devs? I mean I can download each and every mod by itself and put them all together... Make a mod pack. I mean they have given permission to use it by putting it up for download, right. Also FTB has permission to distribute it right? I don't really get it. Hope this made sense [DOUBLEPOST=1357687971][/DOUBLEPOST]Also why haven't the FTB ppl said anything about that? So weird.

 

[Virgoddess]

I don't understand why you have to go through that long process. I thought the "private packs" were gonna be a button on the launcher saying something like "custom modpack" and when you click it you get a list of all the mods and get to pick the ones you want. Why do you need permission from the devs? I mean I can download each and every mod by itself and put them all together... Make a mod pack. I mean they have given permission to use it by putting it up for download, right. Also FTB has permission to distribute it right? I don't really get it. Hope this made sense [DOUBLEPOST=1357687971][/DOUBLEPOST]Also why haven't the FTB ppl said anything about that? So weird.

I don't understand this either. It's like you have to know how to install/config the mods in order to be worthy of using them with other mods successfully.

I understand why mod makers feel....protective about their mods, I really do. But I don't understand the permissions aspect of it. You make it, you distribute it - why the need to control it beyond that baffles me. If anyone on the interwebs is allowed to dl/use a mod, why can't they bundle it up together to help *other* people out without special permission? I sorta thought the more people playing with your hard work - the better?

That said, I do understand/respect FTB's stance on this. Just thinking out loud.