A New Technological Feel
- Thread starter Democretes
- Start date
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Let me just get this out of the way, animated models aren't the easiest thing to do with massive structures. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to do it, but your going to get 24 flavors of lag that you're not going to enjoy.
Animated textures on the other hand, that I could get into.
But let me explain how the current multiblock system works, just so you guys get the idea.
There are three types of blocks, Walls, Frames, and Cores. Walls and Frames have both Efficiency and Speed stats that change depending on the material used. Walls are better at increasing the speed of a multiblock while frame are better at increasing the efficiency. Some walls are a bit special in the fact that they are able to accept energy, input/output items and liquids, and react to redstone. Cores on the other hand, have various attributes. There are various machine cores which allow the multiblock to become a certain type of machine ie. a furnace, or a pulverizer. Only one of these cores is allowed per multiblock machine. The other cores have special functions such as adding extra slots to the machines, increasing their energy capacity, increasing liquid storage capacity, and, most importantly, increasing the tier. The tier of the multiblock determines how large the multiblock can be, up to the config max of course. The larger you want the multiblock to be, the more tier blocks you're going to have to make. They are quite expensive which helps balance things out in the long run and inhibit people from makking massive lagging multiblocks.
That's the currently framework for the multiblocks. Let me know what you guys think.
Animated textures on the other hand, that I could get into.
But let me explain how the current multiblock system works, just so you guys get the idea.
There are three types of blocks, Walls, Frames, and Cores. Walls and Frames have both Efficiency and Speed stats that change depending on the material used. Walls are better at increasing the speed of a multiblock while frame are better at increasing the efficiency. Some walls are a bit special in the fact that they are able to accept energy, input/output items and liquids, and react to redstone. Cores on the other hand, have various attributes. There are various machine cores which allow the multiblock to become a certain type of machine ie. a furnace, or a pulverizer. Only one of these cores is allowed per multiblock machine. The other cores have special functions such as adding extra slots to the machines, increasing their energy capacity, increasing liquid storage capacity, and, most importantly, increasing the tier. The tier of the multiblock determines how large the multiblock can be, up to the config max of course. The larger you want the multiblock to be, the more tier blocks you're going to have to make. They are quite expensive which helps balance things out in the long run and inhibit people from makking massive lagging multiblocks.
That's the currently framework for the multiblocks. Let me know what you guys think.
sounds good but i agree with someones earlier post that it would be cool for non cube multiblocks
My idea for the multi block pulverizer with animations.
3x3 foot print, 4 blocks high.
Bottom layer@
3 machine frames
3 conveyors
3 machine frames
2nd layer
3 glass
3 air
Machine controller, 2 glass
3rd layer
3 glass
Stage 1 pulverizer plate, stage 2, stage 3
3 glass
4th layer
3 machine frames
3 sticky pistols, facing down
3 machine frames
To feed ores in will take a block placer and piston to push ores into the air space on one end.
Automate the activation of the sticky pistols and change the texture on the ore block. Have the ore move thru the machine each time changing its texture for each of the 3 stages.
3x3 foot print, 4 blocks high.
Bottom layer@
3 machine frames
3 conveyors
3 machine frames
2nd layer
3 glass
3 air
Machine controller, 2 glass
3rd layer
3 glass
Stage 1 pulverizer plate, stage 2, stage 3
3 glass
4th layer
3 machine frames
3 sticky pistols, facing down
3 machine frames
To feed ores in will take a block placer and piston to push ores into the air space on one end.
Automate the activation of the sticky pistols and change the texture on the ore block. Have the ore move thru the machine each time changing its texture for each of the 3 stages.
It's extremely difficult to do "non cube" multiblocks other than just making them large rectangles, which is what I intend on. It's a pain to code and hard to make it look good.
I personally love the idea of a wireless transmission system via lasers or beams or something similar. We have thousands of mods with different cables and ore procession, to see something new would be quite nice. But just making a pulverizer into a multiblock doesn't really differ the feeling of your mod from other big tech mods(expecially since greg is working on making a lot of the normal maschines of IC2 into multiblocks). I would concentrate on developing new ideas rather than doing things we already have. Like a totally new transmission system with lasers and lightnings, maybe going with a more futuristic style, not just a plain furnace to smelt your ores but having dozens of lasers fry an ore block into a big blob of impure iron which you have to refine and shape after.
Since I know 'Technomancy' i expect cool things from you, hope some of my input was at least a little helpful c:
Since I know 'Technomancy' i expect cool things from you, hope some of my input was at least a little helpful c:
Is it bad that I'm hoping for more stuff with a magitech vibe?
How about tori? I've seen very few tori multiblocks, pretty much all of which are tokamaks. Could perhaps use that shape for another use? Centrifuges, perhaps?
How about tori? I've seen very few tori multiblocks, pretty much all of which are tokamaks. Could perhaps use that shape for another use? Centrifuges, perhaps?
As for a power alternative to RF, how about Blood Magic RP ?
I'd love to do ore processing and item fabrication with my blood power
I'd love to do ore processing and item fabrication with my blood power
Maybe later on. I might include more multiblocks later. For now it's primarily getting framework up and getting the basic multiblocks going.
I'm straying away from the "magic" whatnots and I'm going to stick with tech mostly. There will be some high tech stuff later on that will give it the magic feel though.As for a power alternative to RF, how about Blood Magic RP ?
I'd love to do ore processing and item fabrication with my blood power
I get that I'm late, and forgot my wallet, but here goes>
- Many have said RF isn't truly a part of TE3
- Yes, you should. Ideally either a realistic system or a cool one, I'd say.
- Yes please! LASER systems are awesome, and while Nikolai Tesla loved his coils, I don't remember what he actually used for his wireless electricity experiments.
- Size? No. Power input? Limited by how many Energy I/O blocks one has on it. Power usage? Should increase logarithmically with every active component of the machine IMO.
I'm all for multiblock structures, but please - make them fun. Examples of what I mean:
-Static black-box MBs are not much fun. See-thru, even if not much goes on inside, is much more appealing. Moving parts are also nice, may want to offer static versions (based on video settings) for people who can't handle it though.
-Sound is a must, a factory/power station/etc. just feels wrong if it's all quiet.
-Fixed-arrangement MBs are not much fun. Anyone can build the exact same thing off of a picture or youtube guide, fun is figuring out a different way to build it that works similarly - or better, and not just by making it bigger.
-I know you posted earlier the difficulties of non-rectangular shapes, but look at it this way - you'd have a leg up on everyone else if you got it working!
Just a few thoughts...I do like multiblocks and the challenges they create, but it'd be much more fun if creativity were more of a factor in building/using them. I understand it may not be easy or even feasible, but at least try to keep it in mind if you could.
Side note - huge multiblocks for "mundane" tasks might be much more interesting. Many mods basic functions such as furnaces, turning things into dust, assembling, etc. could be more interesting as large structures. Would at least make for much more visually interesting workspaces!
-Static black-box MBs are not much fun. See-thru, even if not much goes on inside, is much more appealing. Moving parts are also nice, may want to offer static versions (based on video settings) for people who can't handle it though.
-Sound is a must, a factory/power station/etc. just feels wrong if it's all quiet.
-Fixed-arrangement MBs are not much fun. Anyone can build the exact same thing off of a picture or youtube guide, fun is figuring out a different way to build it that works similarly - or better, and not just by making it bigger.
-I know you posted earlier the difficulties of non-rectangular shapes, but look at it this way - you'd have a leg up on everyone else if you got it working!
Just a few thoughts...I do like multiblocks and the challenges they create, but it'd be much more fun if creativity were more of a factor in building/using them. I understand it may not be easy or even feasible, but at least try to keep it in mind if you could.
Side note - huge multiblocks for "mundane" tasks might be much more interesting. Many mods basic functions such as furnaces, turning things into dust, assembling, etc. could be more interesting as large structures. Would at least make for much more visually interesting workspaces!
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
1) RF.api is independent of thermal expansion.
2) Building on from this; you should be able to build your own fairly unique power grid ect... Unless you plan to be dependent on TE add whatever machines/mechanics that fits with your design.
3)Go for it- lasers sound dangerously awesome.
5) Sound effects is a must- it builds into immersions and vastly improves the gameplay experience.
2) Building on from this; you should be able to build your own fairly unique power grid ect... Unless you plan to be dependent on TE add whatever machines/mechanics that fits with your design.
3)Go for it- lasers sound dangerously awesome.
building on this- RF "wires" have a slight loss per block, but RF "lasers" only lose power at the terminals. As lasers only work in an [unobstructed] straight line....
4) You'll probably want an upper limit [potential lag], ideally a multiblock machine would be many single blocks (like individual "deployers", pistons ect) working in tandem, rather than the typical 'single block- but bigger' that we see a lot of.
5) Sound effects is a must- it builds into immersions and vastly improves the gameplay experience.
Just a thought on your description of how the Multiblocks will work, Demo; I don't think a massive multiblock should serve only one purpose. Look at, for example, a ReactorCraft Fusion Reactor. Massive, meant to generate power via boiling water via heating plasma and emitting neutrons. If one is smart, they add a tritium breeder into the "Hot" section, making Deuterium into Tritium via neutron bombardment. Cuts power output because those neutrons are what make the steam from the fluid, but allows for greater compactness.
Thus, my suggestion: Let a player add more then one "working core" if they are willing to pay more energy for every "working core" you install. My take on energy usage in this style:
Say for example, the smelting core uses 120 RF/t and takes 20 ticks to smelt 1 item. And that a grinding core costs 200 rf/t and also takes 20 ticks for 1 item. Every new core to a "Bigass Machine", well call them, increases power usage by 50% plus the previous count. So add two working cores, everything needs 150% power, but is just as fast as before. So, lets look at it like this then: One has a Bigass Machine with 1 grinding core, and 3 smelting cores(assuming extra ore products like TE3 are added), and a item I/O, and so forth.
The smelters now use... 1200% of there 120 rf/t when working, so does the grinder when it's running. Horrible math, but it shows my idea. Every "working core" added to the machine makes the machines use more power.
Thus, my suggestion: Let a player add more then one "working core" if they are willing to pay more energy for every "working core" you install. My take on energy usage in this style:
Say for example, the smelting core uses 120 RF/t and takes 20 ticks to smelt 1 item. And that a grinding core costs 200 rf/t and also takes 20 ticks for 1 item. Every new core to a "Bigass Machine", well call them, increases power usage by 50% plus the previous count. So add two working cores, everything needs 150% power, but is just as fast as before. So, lets look at it like this then: One has a Bigass Machine with 1 grinding core, and 3 smelting cores(assuming extra ore products like TE3 are added), and a item I/O, and so forth.
The smelters now use... 1200% of there 120 rf/t when working, so does the grinder when it's running. Horrible math, but it shows my idea. Every "working core" added to the machine makes the machines use more power.
Maybe a way to make it "unique" would be to make it require little true skill to use in essence, but then add huge rewards for those who are good at creating efficient designs.
What I mean is this: Each machine has 5 variables: power used, materials output, materials lost, time taken and strain applied.
Each of these variables are affected by the multiplicity design you use. Imagine IC2 Reactors or better yet, Reactor Craft Reactors. Each multiblock has a set of guidelines needed to make the machine work, but can be built in different ways to obtain different goals.
Power used affects how much power each process uses up. While it will always use up some power, a skilled user can make it use up as little as possible. However, there's a catch. Whenever one variable becomes better, another becomes worse by a percentage of that same amount. This means that there is no true 'perfect design' and thus different machines must be built for different jobs.
Materials output is your basic 'ore doubler' type deal, but instead of just being for ores, it's used for all outputs, even power generation. (It'd also be cool if power could be made out of a bit of power and some materials but it's just a side thought)
Materials lost determines how much excess amount of a material is wasted per process. While a material is always lost, you can lower the amount lost quite considerably if you have a good design. Basically imagine this: You want to craft four torches. You craft it with two coal and one stick. 4 coal nuggets come out, but you gain 5 torches. Why the extra torch you may ask? I personally think each recipe should be a bit more rewarding if you are taking so many risks is all.
Time taken, well, it's exactly what it says on the tin.
Strain applied measures how much strain is put on the machine. The more stain it endures the higher of a chance there is for it to fail and use up some materials unnecessarily or break (Really just turn off and requires some good ol' fixing). If it breaks, a good few whacks with a wrench and maybe a couple of part replacements is all that's needed. To reduce strain, either turn the machine offal give it a short relief or let it break. However, if it breaks some of it's parts may disappear and it uses up a bit of power whenever it is turned back on. If it fails a process, a little strain will be lost too, but not much.
What do you think?
What I mean is this: Each machine has 5 variables: power used, materials output, materials lost, time taken and strain applied.
Each of these variables are affected by the multiplicity design you use. Imagine IC2 Reactors or better yet, Reactor Craft Reactors. Each multiblock has a set of guidelines needed to make the machine work, but can be built in different ways to obtain different goals.
Power used affects how much power each process uses up. While it will always use up some power, a skilled user can make it use up as little as possible. However, there's a catch. Whenever one variable becomes better, another becomes worse by a percentage of that same amount. This means that there is no true 'perfect design' and thus different machines must be built for different jobs.
Materials output is your basic 'ore doubler' type deal, but instead of just being for ores, it's used for all outputs, even power generation. (It'd also be cool if power could be made out of a bit of power and some materials but it's just a side thought)
Materials lost determines how much excess amount of a material is wasted per process. While a material is always lost, you can lower the amount lost quite considerably if you have a good design. Basically imagine this: You want to craft four torches. You craft it with two coal and one stick. 4 coal nuggets come out, but you gain 5 torches. Why the extra torch you may ask? I personally think each recipe should be a bit more rewarding if you are taking so many risks is all.
Time taken, well, it's exactly what it says on the tin.
Strain applied measures how much strain is put on the machine. The more stain it endures the higher of a chance there is for it to fail and use up some materials unnecessarily or break (Really just turn off and requires some good ol' fixing). If it breaks, a good few whacks with a wrench and maybe a couple of part replacements is all that's needed. To reduce strain, either turn the machine offal give it a short relief or let it break. However, if it breaks some of it's parts may disappear and it uses up a bit of power whenever it is turned back on. If it fails a process, a little strain will be lost too, but not much.
What do you think?
I can just see too much strain resulting in catastrophe - a piece or pieces of the multiblock go shooting out in an approriate direction, punching holes in walls and landing far away from the base, burning whatever it lands on. Thaumcraft golem integration would be fun too, have your own collection of factory workers keeping everything in shape. At least until they form a union and go on strike..
XD! That golem thing is hilarious! Here, have a cookie.I can just see too much strain resulting in catastrophe - a piece or pieces of the multiblock go shooting out in an approriate direction, punching holes in walls and landing far away from the base, burning whatever it lands on. Thaumcraft golem integration would be fun too, have your own collection of factory workers keeping everything in shape. At least until they form a union and go on strike..
Something I've always wanted to see is huge power generators for generating huge amounts of any of the major forms of power. I remember back when I was playing in my Minecraft FTB 1.4.6. playthrough that I eventually built as many as 40 industrial steam engines to serve my power generation needs. I soon got the idea that players should be able to craft massive power generators that will serve the same kind of function as 40 or more individual smaller power generators.
As much as I love the idea, there is the implementation portion where there is going to be issues. Determining which machines "plug-and-play" together isn't going to be an easy task. I'm currently just working out some framework right now and getting everything I need to serve as a base to work properly. I may turn back to this idea though. I really do like it.
I'm not a fan of the "strain" idea. It's not a bad idea per say, I'm just not a fan of the RNG of it. I don't like my stuff randomly breaking when I'm not paying attention to it. The only time I've ever seen durability done well is with Rotarycraft gearboxes, but that can be easily solved by adding lubricant.
If you think there isn't going to be huge power generations then you're fooling yourself.
I'm fully aware of that. I'm the one using CoFHLib in my mod for the api, but if I add an "Electric Furnace" powered by RF, I'm going to get an incredible amount of hate, particularly from fanboys, for "copying". That's the only reason I'm weary of using it, because people can be extremely idiotic.
And as far as moving parts and animations go, I've got a few ideas for some animated textures to go with each machine.
Every tech mod at it's core is going to need the same basic set of blocks to get the player started. Don't worry about idiots, they are the minority.