So your plan requires us to first stockpile all the Ethanol it would take to heat the 36 HP boiler to start, so we need something like 3 max size steel tanks right out the gate, then we apparently have to breed trees now so we need to spend some time doing that and finding a swamp, o and we'll need bee's to pollinate it too great. Now your willow tree here gives .750 buckets of biomass per tree (have no fruit juice nor will we invest even more power to get it or this becomes even worse) so for every say 10 trees we still were getting 2.2ish buckets of Ethanol. We need 144 buckets to power a 36 HP. So that's 4 Stills 4x6MJ, 1 Fermentor 1x15MJ, Water Pump for the Fermentor 2MJ (No TE ATM), so 41MJ so far. Now comes the sapling problem, you claim a 'minimum size' multifarm can supply this Fermentor and I have no idea how because I have 2 of the largest sized ones running and the fermenter still doesn't have enough saplings coming in to keep the 4 stills running all the time, (all my original calculations were done with MFR farms, planters, standard trees) because these are going to cause another problem instead which we'll get into next. So we got I guess 2MJ from the 2 farms, 2 water pumps 4MJ there, 6MJ + 41MJ were up to 47MJ. Now comes the that problem which is Fertilizer since were using 2 Forestry Multifarms and a Fermentor, and were going thru alot all combined so we need a MFR Composter operating at nearly max to keep up with the 2 farms and the fermenter so there 50MJ, 47+50MJ were up to 97MJ now, you omitted this tiny energy cost because your system in not a closed loop; you require manually finding fertilizer. So doing it your way, yes we do barely produce a small MJ surplus. So small I couldn't to even bother constructing it and waiting the several days for 4 stills to produce the Ethanol to fill the initial steel tanks you'd need to heat the boiler in the first place. When you factor in the mj wasted with heating costs the small MJ surplus still would never give you positive energy unless you played for years maybe.
1.6.4 Liquid Fuel Boiler fuel changes.
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So your plan requires us to first stockpile all the Ethanol it would take to heat the 36 HP boiler to start, so we need something like 3 max size steel tanks right out the gate, then we apparently have to breed trees now so we need to spend some time doing that and finding a swamp, o and we'll need bee's to pollinate it too great. Now your willow tree here gives .750 buckets of biomass per tree (have no fruit juice nor will we invest even more power to get it or this becomes even worse) so for every say 10 trees we still were getting 2.2ish buckets of Ethanol. We need 144 buckets to power a 36 HP. So that's 4 Stills 4x6MJ, 1 Fermentor 1x15MJ, Water Pump for the Fermentor 2MJ (No TE ATM), so 41MJ so far. Now comes the sapling problem, you claim a 'minimum size' multifarm can supply this Fermentor and I have no idea how because I have 2 of the largest sized ones running and the fermenter still doesn't have enough saplings coming in to keep the 4 stills running all the time, (all my original calculations were done with MFR farms, planters, standard trees) because these are going to cause another problem instead which we'll get into next. So we got I guess 2MJ from the 2 farms, 2 water pumps 4MJ there, 6MJ + 41MJ were up to 47MJ. Now comes the that problem which is Fertilizer since were using 2 Forestry Multifarms and a Fermentor, and were going thru alot all combined so we need a MFR Composter operating at nearly max to keep up with the 2 farms and the fermenter so there 50MJ, 47+50MJ were up to 97MJ now, you omitted this tiny energy cost because your system in not a closed loop; you require manually finding fertilizer. So doing it your way, yes we do barely produce a small MJ surplus. So small I couldn't to even bother constructing it and waiting the several days for 4 stills to produce the Ethanol to fill the initial steel tanks you'd need to heat the boiler in the first place. When you factor in the mj wasted with heating costs the small MJ surplus still would never give you positive energy unless you played for years maybe.
Wasn't going to jump into this fight, but I did want to comment...easier said than done. I've been attempting to breed a willow for about a week. 2 bee houses and an apiary with bees that are warm/damp friendly and I've had a Total of 1 pollinated leaf.
Tree breeding isn't difficult, but neither is it a magic wand to wave at anything. Results may vary based on how long you're able to keep from putting your fist through your monitor.
On that topic - does breeding a willow need a vanilla swamp or jungle, or will a swamp-like biome from BoP suffice? I've tried this in a BoP bog biome, but no willows at all as yet...
This kind of change sounds like GregTech. They won't change it because it's basic vanilla Minecraft - changing wood log into charcoal. In real world that's how you make charcoal
Good that they don't nerfed charcoal - solid boiler FTW.
I always have tried to find the specific vanilla biome in the past, but certain comments I've seen in LP's makes me think that might not be necessary anymore. Something about added biomes being given a tag so that they count as various biome groups. I haven't tested it though...as I implied in my previous message, I'm reaching the end of my patience (and I don't even need the willows...I'm still on an unleashed 1.1.3 server and using a squid to generate lots of power works fine)
I wonder how the conversation's going here!
NOPE. MY BRAIN. SHE IS TOO FRAGILE.
though really, this is getting a bit much. I'm starting to think you guys will use harvard referencing soon.
NOPE. MY BRAIN. SHE IS TOO FRAGILE.
though really, this is getting a bit much. I'm starting to think you guys will use harvard referencing soon.
1.6 just encourages me to use magic mods and tech mods that are not part of the legacy IC2/BC group. This is a good thing for the players. It's causing a demand for new & fresh mods. It's motivating devs to refine their mods in new ways versus nerfing everything.
So go check out new or lesser used mods. Go grab Ender IO. Go play around with UE based mods. Gird your gonads & strife for the upcoming RF grid from TE. You'll be better off. Trust me.
So go check out new or lesser used mods. Go grab Ender IO. Go play around with UE based mods. Gird your gonads & strife for the upcoming RF grid from TE. You'll be better off. Trust me.
I need to get a better tower before I think about touching 1.6, the modpacks abjectly refuse to play nice.
The breeding requirement is damp humidity, and normal or higher temperature. Any biome fulfilling these requirements is valid, from BoP or otherwise. You can check out what your current biome features by placing down a bee house and looking at its interface. Then just pick it back up and carry it around until you found what you're looking for.
@zilvarwolf: that looks like you've set things up wrong. Basic bees are slow, yes, but they shouldn't be that slow. Keep in mind the following things:
1.) The pollination range is huge. Take the furthest distance you see flowers being spawned by the bee house; then triple it. Roughly that's the area for pollination. It also goes quite a ways up and down. A friend of mine was having your issue, until he discovered several crossed leaves in the forest on the other side of the hill.
2.) Every time the bee performs a pollination attempt, it randomizes a block in its area. If that is not a leaf block, the attempt fails. If it is a leaf block, it randomizes another block in the area. If that is not also a leaf block, the attempt fails. If it is also a leaf block, then the trait lines are crossed and the second leaf block is marked as pollinated. Unless, of course, both leaf blocks were of the same type - then, again, the attempt fails. Furthermore, leaf blocks must be able to carry genome information in order for the crossbreeding to succeed. You will not be able to cross a BoP fir tree with anything.
As a result, if you just set up two trees next to each other, you'll wait forever for something to happen because there's just not enough leaves inside the huge area. Instead, you want to fill that area up. Plant 6-8 oaks and 6-8 birches around your bee houses. And make sure all of them are properly inside the biome.
And when in doubt - more bees.
Or, if you can stand to invest a little more startup time, try the butterfly method in my signature. It's self-accelerating over time and avoids all the issues with pollination area size.I've got a jungle next to a desert. I set down 2 hives with modest bees (because I had strains that were diurnal) right on the edge of the jungle, and one strain of tropical bees (I think that's right...poisonous b*******...and not enough coffee yet) just inside the jungle border. There are 5 oaks and 4 birches within range, and a couple of jungle trees that I didn't clear out just on the edges.
Counting those, I've had...3, total, pollinated leaves in the last 9 days of trying.
Counting those, I've had...3, total, pollinated leaves in the last 9 days of trying.
That's very few indeed. Not sure what's wrong, then. Unless modest bees cannot pollinate for some reason. I know that for example rocky bees from Binnie's Mods can't, because they use rocks for "flowers" and thus don't care about trees. Maybe the modest bees care only about their cactus?
I generally use tropical bees almost exclusively (I'm after the silky wisps anyway, so might as well). With 5 bee houses, 4 oaks, 4 birch and no other trees anywhere near, I tend to get 3-4 pollinated leaves per bee lifecycle.
I generally use tropical bees almost exclusively (I'm after the silky wisps anyway, so might as well). With 5 bee houses, 4 oaks, 4 birch and no other trees anywhere near, I tend to get 3-4 pollinated leaves per bee lifecycle.
Hmm. I hadn't considered that possibility, since flowers and trees aren't anymore related than cacti and trees....Hmm.
I suppose I can try to find a couple more rocky hives to breed into something useful. Hmm.
I suppose I can try to find a couple more rocky hives to breed into something useful. Hmm.
for people who don't like the change I refer them to
if even that doesn't satisfy those people, there's always cheat mode, have a blast with that.
and it's as RedBoss says, if you don't like which direction these mods go, go try other mods, there are tons of other good mods to play with that are also fun, you are not forced to stick with a standard group of mods. right now I'm not even playing with anything BC, Forestry, IC2 or any of those mods, I'm playing a magic centered world with Thaumcraft and Ars Magica, do what YOU want to do
Off topic, I'd enjoy reading some posts (if I haven't already overlooked a few) on people's experiences getting started with Ars Magica. I've got it installed in my 1.6.4 world, alongside of TC4 and Mekanism, and I'm finding it to have a more difficult start than TC. That's probably, largely, because of my biome mods...if I can't find one of those glowing pools of water, I'm pretty much stuck. The book's too important
Off topic, I'd enjoy reading some posts (if I haven't already overlooked a few) on people's experiences getting started with Ars Magica. I've got it installed in my 1.6.4 world, alongside of TC4 and Mekanism, and I'm finding it to have a more difficult start than TC. That's probably, largely, because of my biome mods...if I can't find one of those glowing pools of water, I'm pretty much stuck. The book's too important
I send you a message
Maybe I'm just unlucky then. I have 3 bee houses near a apple oak & silver birch. The two trees are planted in a bog biome (normal/damp), and one of the bee houses is also in that biome (swamp bees). Two more bee houses (meadow bees) are a few blocks away in a field biome. I'm getting a good number of mutations, but zero white willows. Lots of oak-birch hybrids, and some silver limes & common beeches, but no willows.
Well, the chance is only 5%, while for example silver lime is 15%. Try providing more trees so you can get more pollination events to succeed, and with time you should see a willow. You can probably plant one of those silver limes too, as (IIRC) apple oak + silver lime can also yield willow. If nothing else it'll give you some other species on the side.
The good part is, you only need one willow sapling mutation success. Then you can just plant it, bonemeal it, and chop it down to multiply the sapling count (or use grafters on it, that works on un-pollinated leaves too).
The good part is, you only need one willow sapling mutation success. Then you can just plant it, bonemeal it, and chop it down to multiply the sapling count (or use grafters on it, that works on un-pollinated leaves too).
I, for one, welcome our new liquid fuel nerf overlords.
Solid-fueled (charcoal) boilers are still working the same way in 1.6.4 and the liquids seem to be encouraging (forcing) tree breeding, which is not a bad thing.
Back before ExtraBees, MFR laser, multiple quarries, and MJ-->lava-->EU, 100+ MJ was a massive amount of power. End-game or near end-game blocks and mechanics should require an investment and I don't view tree breeding as an insurmountable obstacle, but that's my opinion.
Harder ? Yes. Takes longer ? Yes. Game-breaking ? No.
So far, my 1.6.4 world has been the longest-lasting of any of my worlds and the most enjoyable. Maybe it's my self-imposed rules or changes in playstyle, maybe it's the longer (steeper) power/technology curve, maybe it's others. On the plus side, I've gotten to know and love Ender IO, have somewhat enjoyed using IC2 exp, and have bred more bees than I've ever bred.
Solid-fueled (charcoal) boilers are still working the same way in 1.6.4 and the liquids seem to be encouraging (forcing) tree breeding, which is not a bad thing.
Back before ExtraBees, MFR laser, multiple quarries, and MJ-->lava-->EU, 100+ MJ was a massive amount of power. End-game or near end-game blocks and mechanics should require an investment and I don't view tree breeding as an insurmountable obstacle, but that's my opinion.
Harder ? Yes. Takes longer ? Yes. Game-breaking ? No.
So far, my 1.6.4 world has been the longest-lasting of any of my worlds and the most enjoyable. Maybe it's my self-imposed rules or changes in playstyle, maybe it's the longer (steeper) power/technology curve, maybe it's others. On the plus side, I've gotten to know and love Ender IO, have somewhat enjoyed using IC2 exp, and have bred more bees than I've ever bred.