Cubic Chunks! Cubic Chunks!

  • Please make sure you are posting in the correct place. Server ads go here and modpack bugs go here

Should Mojang impliment Cubic Chunks?

  • Yes. That would be awesome!

    Votes: 50 67.6%
  • Maybe. I'm not sure it possible though.

    Votes: 6 8.1%
  • No.

    Votes: 18 24.3%

  • Total voters
    74
Status
Not open for further replies.

WatcherInTheShadows

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
162
0
0
There is current a campaign of players seeking to get Mojang to change the chunk format that allows for some VERY interesting possibilities.
I encourage everyone to join in!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic...ore-over-two-thousand-supportersupdated-1015/

The immediate benefits:
•Minecraft worlds become as virtually infinite vertically as they are horizontally: The absolute limit being Y = ±30,000,000.
A large FPS increase: Alpha testers report an FPS increase of 100~200%.
Increase in running capability: Computers running Minecraft on Tiny render distance will handle only 30% the blocks they do now.

The possible features:
Spherical render/load distance: Reduce handled blocks by up to 30% by cutting corners made of unneeded chunks.
Server chunk occlusion/exclusion: Reduce bandwidth usage and defeat hackers by only sending data for visible chunks.
•Three-dimensional biomes: Save biome data per chunk rather than per block column, create volcanoes with magma chambers, underground rivers, tropical skylands floating over icy taigas, and more.

The disadvantages:
•Unloaded gravity-pause: Falling non-player entities and fluids will be forced to pause their fall if they reach unloaded chunks, but will resume falling when those chunks are loaded.
•Slow falling-pause: Players with slower computers and smaller render distances will have falling occasionally paused as they fall into unloaded chunks, until new chunks can be loaded.

The problems:
•Current sunlight and rain calculation methods cannot work with infinite vertical space: The solution to this is described here.
•Current BiomeDecorator cannot work with multiple vertical chunks simultaneously: The BiomeDecorator code must be altered to function correctly with this, or removed.
•Current cave generation method is executed an extra time for each vertical chunk created simultaneously, leading to lag spikes on world generation: Cave generation's method must be altered to suit this system more.
•Current grass/dirt generation algorithm forces additional chunk requests when chunks are loaded, causing chunks to load slower than they should: This algorithm must be replaced with something else.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic...ver-two-thousand-supportersupdated-1015/#data
How worlds will be stored:
How the current storage works, and what changes:
Interestingly enough, the current method of storage, the Anvil format, is derived from the storage method that the original Cubic Chunks mod used. The Anvil format stores individual chunk as a series of 163 quasi-cubic chunks. These 'fake' cubic chunks allow for easier reference of specific data, but they still can't be separated from each other, meaning that it fails to reap the full benefits of this system. Even so, the change allowed Mojang to double the maximum height with no performance hit. Chunks are stored in groups of 322, inside 'MCRegion' files, for a total of 1024 chunks.
By nature, cubic chunks does away with the 'quasi-cubic' nonsense. In terms of chunk grouping, instead of using groups of 323 chunks, new "3DRegion" files would contain groups of 163. This means each 3DRegion file contains 4096 chunks, four times as many as MCRegion files. However, each 3DRegion contains only one fourth the amount of blocks. For per-chunk positional metadata, 3DRegion files would use the same number of bits as MCRegion files, after compression. Calculations show that the same area encompassed by a single MCRegion file would consume 64 kilobytes of extra space with 4 3DRegion files, which is nothing.

Converting existing worlds:
Most people are probably wondering something like "But won't this totally destroy all existing worlds?". Absolutely not; conversion could not be simpler. When a non-cubic world is loaded after the implementation of this system, a conversion process will begin and convert the entire world at once(To avoid making chunk loading take longer during play). First, all existing MCRegion files will be divided into quarters to create 3DRegion files. Then, all existing chunks are divided into sixteenths using the quasi-cubic properties to identify boundaries. After that, conversion is done.

The "isEmpty" flag optimization:
A 1-bit flag is added to each chunk, named "isEmpty". If the chunk consists of 100% air blocks, this bit is 1, any other case makes it 0. When the bit is 1, all data for the chunk besides the isEmpty flag is deleted and ignored, which reduces filesize. Empty chunks are never loaded, and locations where they occur are merely simulated as entities reside in them. The chunk will only load when something requires saving inside it.

Render/Load distance alterations:
After the implementation of Cubic Chunks, view distances' radii will apply to the vertical axis too. This reduces handled blocks in the cases of tiny and short render distances, and increases them in the cases of normal and far render distances. This can be optimized by utilizing a spherical render distance instead of a cubic one, which would reduce handled blocks in all distances except Far.
Addition information from here: https://mojang.atlassian.net/i#browse/MCAPI-28
Justin added a comment - 16/Oct/13 6:13 AM - edited
1)Yes but you don't experience those issues until you get to 30 million blocks away from origin.
2)Although the author of this suggestion wants cubic chunks for the ability to increase the height that is not the only positive. Because of how Cubic chunks is designed it can reduce lag considerably because less than half as much data is loaded when you move around a world.
Here is a quick very incomplete summary as to why:
2.1)We now don't need filler data for every air block, all we have to do is send a tagged null value saying the chunk is empty.
2.2)We don't have to load a dozens of 16x16x256 chunks instead we only load about the same number of 16x16x16 chunks to get the same in game experience. It will reduce loaded terrane data 8 times on average.
2.3)Cubic chunks gives you the option of infinite or increased vertical you don't have to set the vertical any higher than it already is if you don't want to.
2.4) Allows for really cool things like sky biomes and crystal caves because now we have the vertical space to make it happen.
4)If you really want to understand what cubic chunks does for minecraft read the whole post athttp://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1707097-cubic-chunks-reduced-lag-infinite-height-and-more-over-two-thousand-supportersupdated-1015/page__mode__show if your too lazy to read the post at least read the tl:dr and the Q&A at the bottom of the post before making a judgement about the system.
5)And finally Mojang could add this to Minecraft with very little work on their part and in just a couple months. The whole system has been described in detail on the thread I listed above and there are a number of very talented developers who have already built working versions of the system in Minecraft and several of which have volunteered to write it if Mojang will put it in vanilla.
If you want less lag farther view distances and more possibilities in minecraft support cubic chunks by up-voting this issue and adding this to your signature on every forum you can.
imghttp://img833.imageshack.us/img833/443/hov.png/img[/url]

Here's a couple of videos.
A mod implimenting Cubic Chunks.
A concept video.

If you want to show your support!
Code:
[url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1707097-cubic-chunks-infinite-height-elimination-of-x-ray-and-more-60-supporters/page__st__0"][img]http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/443/hov.png[/img][/url]


*Edited for those who can't be bothered and yet feel the need to tell me about it.*
 
  • Like
Reactions: the_j485

Enigmius1

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
499
0
0
You'd probably be better off explaining what some of these supposed benefits are instead of just providing a link to what amounts to a petition thread where the vast majority of posters and voters don't even really understand what they're posting/voting about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bihlbo

WatcherInTheShadows

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
162
0
0
You'd probably be better off explaining what some of these supposed benefits are instead of just providing a link to what amounts to a petition thread where the vast majority of posters and voters don't even really understand what they're posting/voting about.

The OP really says it all.
Miss that part?
 

WatcherInTheShadows

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
162
0
0
You haven't seen the third grade, but that's no reason to derail your own thread. If you're trying to drum up support for this, you're off to a piss-poor start.

Nah.
I just know a troll when I see one.
Hardly a very good one at that.
I could cut and paste the entire OP to which I am refering to prove you wrong.
But, seems like a waste of time.

So, you done?
 

Enigmius1

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
499
0
0
Nah.
I just know a troll when I see one.
Hardly a very good one at that.
I could cut and paste the entire OP to which I am refering to prove you wrong.
But, seems like a waste of time.

So, you done?

You mean the OP in the thread to which you linked the last page? Like I said, put some effort into it. And don't be so quick to dismiss people as trolls. I made a valid point. A call to action with a link to shit is not a good way to gain support for anything. Be less defensive. You might learn something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThatOneSlowking

WatcherInTheShadows

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
162
0
0
You mean the OP in the thread to which you linked the last page? Like I said, put some effort into it. And don't be so quick to dismiss people as trolls. I made a valid point. A call to action with a link to shit is not a good way to gain support for anything. Be less defensive. You might learn something.

LoL!
Not people.
Just you.
1) You're misrepresenting the thread to which I linked. It covers all the information far better than I could ever hope to.
2) You've been taking a condescending tone from post one.
 

SatanicSanta

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
4,849
-3
0
Nah Enigmius1 is right, there is very little information about this idea.
Anyways, let's not get this topic locked seeing as Lawbroken is at his computer, and Vauthil is online, let's not put more stress on them.

I don't think Cubic chunks would have any real point, and could possibly cause lag, not only fps, but also server lag when it comes to Chunk Loaders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RedBoss

WatcherInTheShadows

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
162
0
0
I don't think Cubic chunks would have any real point, and could possibly cause lag, not only fps, but also server lag when it comes to Chunk Loaders.

And you didn't read it obviously.
From source:
The immediate benefits:
•Minecraft worlds become as virtually infinite vertically as they are horizontally: The absolute limit being Y = ±30,000,000.
A large FPS increase: Alpha testers report an FPS increase of 100~200%.
Increase in running capability: Computers running Minecraft on Tiny render distance will handle only 30% the blocks they do now.

The possible features:
Spherical render/load distance: Reduce handled blocks by up to 30% by cutting corners made of unneeded chunks.
Server chunk occlusion/exclusion: Reduce bandwidth usage and defeat hackers by only sending data for visible chunks.
•Three-dimensional biomes: Save biome data per chunk rather than per block column, create volcanoes with magma chambers, underground rivers, tropical skylands floating over icy taigas, and more.

The disadvantages:
•Unloaded gravity-pause: Falling non-player entities and fluids will be forced to pause their fall if they reach unloaded chunks, but will resume falling when those chunks are loaded.
•Slow falling-pause: Players with slower computers and smaller render distances will have falling occasionally paused as they fall into unloaded chunks, until new chunks can be loaded.

The problems:
•Current sunlight and rain calculation methods cannot work with infinite vertical space: The solution to this is described here.
•Current BiomeDecorator cannot work with multiple vertical chunks simultaneously: The BiomeDecorator code must be altered to function correctly with this, or removed.
•Current cave generation method is executed an extra time for each vertical chunk created simultaneously, leading to lag spikes on world generation: Cave generation's method must be altered to suit this system more.
•Current grass/dirt generation algorithm forces additional chunk requests when chunks are loaded, causing chunks to load slower than they should: This algorithm must be replaced with something else.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic...ver-two-thousand-supportersupdated-1015/#data
How worlds will be stored:
How the current storage works, and what changes:
Interestingly enough, the current method of storage, the Anvil format, is derived from the storage method that the original Cubic Chunks mod used. The Anvil format stores individual chunk as a series of 163 quasi-cubic chunks. These 'fake' cubic chunks allow for easier reference of specific data, but they still can't be separated from each other, meaning that it fails to reap the full benefits of this system. Even so, the change allowed Mojang to double the maximum height with no performance hit. Chunks are stored in groups of 322, inside 'MCRegion' files, for a total of 1024 chunks.
By nature, cubic chunks does away with the 'quasi-cubic' nonsense. In terms of chunk grouping, instead of using groups of 323 chunks, new "3DRegion" files would contain groups of 163. This means each 3DRegion file contains 4096 chunks, four times as many as MCRegion files. However, each 3DRegion contains only one fourth the amount of blocks. For per-chunk positional metadata, 3DRegion files would use the same number of bits as MCRegion files, after compression. Calculations show that the same area encompassed by a single MCRegion file would consume 64 kilobytes of extra space with 4 3DRegion files, which is nothing.

Converting existing worlds:
Most people are probably wondering something like "But won't this totally destroy all existing worlds?". Absolutely not; conversion could not be simpler. When a non-cubic world is loaded after the implementation of this system, a conversion process will begin and convert the entire world at once(To avoid making chunk loading take longer during play). First, all existing MCRegion files will be divided into quarters to create 3DRegion files. Then, all existing chunks are divided into sixteenths using the quasi-cubic properties to identify boundaries. After that, conversion is done.

The "isEmpty" flag optimization:
A 1-bit flag is added to each chunk, named "isEmpty". If the chunk consists of 100% air blocks, this bit is 1, any other case makes it 0. When the bit is 1, all data for the chunk besides the isEmpty flag is deleted and ignored, which reduces filesize. Empty chunks are never loaded, and locations where they occur are merely simulated as entities reside in them. The chunk will only load when something requires saving inside it.

Render/Load distance alterations:
After the implementation of Cubic Chunks, view distances' radii will apply to the vertical axis too. This reduces handled blocks in the cases of tiny and short render distances, and increases them in the cases of normal and far render distances. This can be optimized by utilizing a spherical render distance instead of a cubic one, which would reduce handled blocks in all distances except Far.


So, by what basis do you say it'll "probably" increase lag or FPS?
 

SatanicSanta

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
4,849
-3
0
And you didn't read it obviously.
From source:



So, by what basis do you say it'll increase lag?

First of all, that quote, I am 666% sure that it is not in YOUR op.

Second of all, you load chunks in all directions around you, having vertical chunks means that you also load air chunks, and stone chunks.
Chunk Loaders have to load more chunks to load everything

Third of all, what if you get a corrupt air chunk? What if you get a corrupt cave chunk and it turns to an ocean? Corrupt chunks are already annoying enough, without having corrupt air chunks and corrupt underground chunks.

Edit: Also, I think that Mojang needs to work on their Forge API rather than pointless cubic chunks.
 

Vasa

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
532
0
1
i dont see the point of cubic chunks . why infinite height , why real big mountains when i even cant climb the bop ones lol .
and how it would increase performance with even more blocks , flowing liquids etc etc.
i dont think this is good idea so i voted NO c:

EDIT
Also, I think that Mojang needs to work on their Forge API rather than pointless cubic chunks.
 

WatcherInTheShadows

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
162
0
0
First of all, that quote, I am 666% sure that it is not in YOUR op.

*facepalm*
LoL!
When did I ever claim or even hint it was mine?

Second of all, you load chunks in all directions around you, having vertical chunks means that you also load air chunks, and stone chunks.
Chunk Loaders have to load more chunks to load everything

Third of all, what if you get a corrupt air chunk? What if you get a corrupt cave chunk and it turns to an ocean? Corrupt chunks are already annoying enough, without having corrupt air chunks and corrupt underground chunks.[/quote

Thus proving even further you did not read the source.
 

WatcherInTheShadows

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
162
0
0
i dont see the point of cubic chunks . why infinite height , why real big mountains when i even cant climb the bop ones lol .
and how it would increase performance with even more blocks , flowing liquids etc etc.
i dont think this is good idea so i voted NO c:

It changes how minecraft handles things as far as chunks all around.
But, different strokes for different folks.
I would love to construct a giant building.
And have deep oceans.
And deep deep mines *Moria anyone?*.[DOUBLEPOST=1382568348][/DOUBLEPOST]
Sorry, I misread what you quoted. Even still, the FPS increase can vary from computer to computer, just like Optifine.

Please just read the source material.
The idea just might interest you.
 

WatcherInTheShadows

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
162
0
0
let's keep the insults, and generally snarkiness to a maximum of 0.

No insults offered.
Just pointing out you're obviously lying and barged in to support Enigmius.
Though if you want me to I guess I can oblige you with insults if you ask nicely.
Snarkiness, well, guilty as charged.
But I feel it's justified so, meh.
Now, if you want to change the tenor of the conversation.
It's really all in your hands.
Suffice it to say, I'm all for that.
But neither will I backdown.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.