Discussion in 'Mod Discussion' started by Airbornehurdle, Jul 27, 2013.
Shneeky, I like your post but I still gotta say, MPS Railgun FTW!
I've been waiting for someone to post that for ages now.
As for the math. yeah. i agree with the above poster. I had actually done the math earlier myself, but figured I'd leave the exercise of math to others this time around. so well done mate.
There really is no point in anything above cactus for arrowheads except against the wither, and in that case alumite is not worth it either, and a super enhanced many/thaum arrow is the goto missile of choice for that one situation only. and only because you are likely to get them all back. for normal defence? no way. they suffer from the too expensive to use syndrome.
can I just say that the TC shortbow doesn't seem much better than the vanilla bow? That said, a vanilla bow with Power IV and Infinity seems like a better choice to me than anything TC can currently offer
--- Double Post Merged, Oct 3, 2013 ---
TC makes better swords and picks than vanilla enchanting can get, so I find myself with an excess of XP anyways. I already have full enchanted armor, so now I'm just trying to get the ultimate bow (vanilla bow + enchanting)
--- Double Post Merged, Oct 3, 2013 ---
The benefit of TiCo isn't that it is nesesearily superior to an equivalently enchanted kit. it is that it removes the hugely annoying vanilla enchantment system, and replaces it with one that uses normal resources instead. no need for any XP, just put whatever you want on the bow and arrows. done deal.
That being said. you can also use the enchantment plus mod to remove any randomness from the enchantment system, but meh. TiCo adds more than just a replacement for vanilla, it makes a whole new way to do things, one that is much more fun to play with than the vanilla stuff.
True, but I still think people who come to this post looking for the ultimate bow should know that TC doesn't offer one better than a fully enchanted vanilla bow
Best bow type weapon I've seen is the railgun fully maxed out, but for bows tinkers construct allows you to manually add what enchantments you want onto it and is able to be more customized while vanilla bows are stronger I believe.
If you are looking for an ultimate weapon, then going to any of the mod specific threads is a waste of time. there are plenty of cross mod comparison threads where that kind of stuff is discussed. this one is about TiCo specifically, and thus, stuff like the MPS railgun and xeno's reliquary are kinda out of the picture altogether.
Thing is, people know what vanilla items can do. they are plenty capable of judging that by themselves, but it just doesn't matter what's in vanilla at the end of the day, because mods don't have to beat the ultimate vanilla stuff in order to be a prefered choice. it only has to deliver something that is perceived as a more fun game mechanic.
Edit: what the heck forum? why you messin with my fontsize?
This is actually an incorrect statement.
A TiCo bow made with green slime rods and flamestring bow string in 1.6 firing arrows with cactus head, slime shaft, and feather fletching have not only a more rapid rate of fire (takes less time to get the bow to full draw), but the arrows launched from the bow fly both faster and with less of a curve to their trajectory, which translates to an overall increase in accuracy.
Furthermore, putting 73 Nether Quartz on the stack of aforementioned arrows fired from aforementioned bow deals a flat 10 damage per shot, which actually exceeds the damage a Power 5 Bow does (9 hearts). In fact, with Manyllium arrowhead arrows, the damage output is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than anything an enchanted bow can bring to the table.
Furthermore, the bow itself can be enchanted for more rapid firing with Redstone, further increasing the rate of fire advantage it has against any vanilla bow, which is something vanilla bows are unable to do with enchantments, has thousands of durability, can be given auto-repair or electric modifiers so that the bow itself NEVER BREAKS (a significant advantage over even Unbreaking V, and can be done SIMULTANEOUSLY with the aforementioned 10 heart damage output since you are now modifying the bow rather than the arrows themselves).
Since you can get 10 hearts of damage on the cactus head arrows with two modifiers, you still have another modifier available (more if you used paper or thaumium somewhere). Which means you can use one piston for the whole stack to add in additional knockback to the arrows. With an Alumite arrowhead you can actually put two pistons on and one set of 72 nether quartz for 10 damage and more knockback than Punch V. Again, this is in addition to the rate of fire and the ability to repair, auto-repair, or charge the bow with energy. You've now got a bow which is mechanically superior to a bow that you would be unable to repair because enchantment costs would be too high.
The only thing TiCo is unable to duplicate or exceed is the Infinity enchantment. But since you're only really spending cactus, slimeballs, and feathers... it's not like the arrows are that expensive. And even 73 nether quarts per STACK of arrows isn't the end of the world. Honestly, Infinity is probably the worst enchantment in the game. Arrows themselves are a renewable resource with a skeleton grinder.
Great, now that I've already made two stacks of the stuff for me and my pal... I want something like an uncrafting table for Tinkers tools, or the ability to put them in the smeltery and melt them down for their base metals.
It's not like the stuff is rare or anything. don't worry about spilt alumite. there are loads of the aluminum stuff in every world.. especially if you do automining. I usually have way more of it than I know what to do with even before i get into the quarry stuff.
Heck with aluminum oreberry bushes and golems plucking them every few min you get way more than necessary, I plan on making an aluminum fortress soon -.-
I can't believe so many people test this stuff (I think korsovan got it closest?) and get it so wrong. Although it could be that since I'm playing on hexxit, the mod is somehow balanced differently, and I plan to test it (unless someone else running FTB can confirm my results.)
If we're looking for max damage, but aren't concerned about rate of fire, then the only stat that matters is the fly speed. How can you test this? Make a bow with .2 fly speed(stone bound usually) .5 fly speed (paper) 1 fly speed (wood) and then 1.2 fly speed (slime or steel or a number of others)
Then use the exact same arrow shooting a mob without armor and compare results. You should notice the damage go up and it in no way correlates to the bow damage value (which I assume is there for whacking mobs with your bow.)
Now, of course rate of fire comes into play, and the a close second for me is durability so for me, the ONLY OPTION for a bow is a green slime bow which has 1.2, faster draw speed and great durability. The only modifiers I would consider are red stone and pistons. Also, I should note that once my pack gets updated and I can use flamestring, I absolutely will since it has the highest fly speed at 1.5 or something like that I believe I saw from an earlier post.
How hard is nether quartz to get? I mean really? I was running around for 1/2 an hour and had stacks of the stuff. You step foot in the nether and it's the 2nd most common thing behind netherrack. This, imo, is the only modifier you should be using! It adds crazy amounts of damage to your arrows! You can add it to a whole stack of arrows! What arrow should you be using? Well, for me, the slime bow shoots even the heaviest arrow, malyuhum(w/e) pretty damn far and pretty damn accurate. Enough so that if I was only using these arrows, I would be able to compensate pretty well. Here's the thing though, the modifiers add so much damage, and there's no durability, so you should actually be using a paper rod for the extra modifier! Please note, I don't have thaumcraft installed, so perhaps thaumium is lighter/more accurate. If it is, by all means use that instead. But please don't use cactus! I checked, jagged does nothing. I even went as far as trying to add durability to the arrows using diamonds and emeralds, and tried to give durability to the arrow by hitting mobs in melee with it. Guess what, arrows are unbreakable, even if you add durability to them. So jagged does NOTHING. Now, if you use a maly head and paper shaft, add two modifiers and load the arrow up with nether quartz, you get an arrow that shows an amazing 13-26 damage! I was criting mobs with no armor for over 50 damage on the regular using my slime bow! But, it gets even better. I can't believe I haven't seen anyone test paper arrows. That's right, PAPER! With a paper arrow, maxed out, you can get a crazy 12.5-25 damage on the arrows! From paper! On top of that you get a high 86 (88?) % accuracy, and one if the lightest arrows to boot! This is the clear winner for me since paper is obviously so easy to come by.
From my tests, doesn't matter. Anything other than feathers adds weight, but such a small amount it shouldn't make a difference. Even still, I go with feathers since they're the lightest, slime a close second and oak leaves are very easy to come by, so they're a good option as well.
Oh ya, you can also melee mobs with these arrows and do 25 damage to mobs without any armor and get the slight knock back effect of punching and same speed as punching. Love these arrows.
tldr; slime bow w/ flamestring if that's an option, otherwise enchanted(assuming it doesn't reduce arrow speed) string or regular and paper arrows with maxed nether quartz.
Also, sorry if people test and get very different results in FTB! I'll try to test later this week in FTB as well.
Thanks, and happy stabbing!
Was just looking at a spreadsheet that has most data values, and it looks like the enchanted string does reduce arrow speed, so don't use that. Also it looks like a thaumium arrow head has not base damage then paper and still allows for max modifiers, so I would use that for the head and paaper for the shaft if that's an option. However, this won't effect the total damage by too much (if at all) so it may be worth testing to see if you do in fact get more damage. Accuracy looks better though.
I like you're research, never thought to melee mobs with the arrows. Why make an F*cking sword?!?!? In any evernt Thaum stuff isn't available to use as materials yet in 1.6.4 so flame string is the go to. Gonna fart around with the melee arrows bit. Hilarious to say the least. Most likely fixed in the latest versions but hey, I can hope.
Spot on to you, spot on to everyone for this conversation, best info gathering for a mod I've ever seen.
I stand by my position that it is way overkill and a waste of resources to build combinations dealing 25+ damage (except in cases of Wither fighting) because there are no enemies which you are likely to be shooting at where that damage output is required to kill in one shot. 10 damage is necessary to kill creepers, skeletons, spiders, and zombies in one shot.
You can achieve this with cactus head/slime rod/feather fletching and 73 quartz on the whole stack. You are not capable of shooting Endermen, and cave spiders only show up in the mines where you are unlikely to have your bow out and ready in time.
Therefore, for all intents and purposes, you can kill in one shot any enemy you are capable of firing at with the design I specified. Yes, you can go higher damage, but you do so at a degradation of accuracy, flight speed, flight arc, flight distance, and have no measurable gains in return.
Unless you melee them with the arrow. Meh heh heh....... Best exploit ever
That does not work with the version I am currently using.
Like I said, I'm playing on hexxit, where almost everything you're fighting except vanilla mobs have at least 20 hp, and all special mobs have over 100. I know this is a FTB forum (which I love btw) but this was also the most up to date info on this mod, and a lot of other people may be searching and finding this thread as well, and could even have FTB with boss mods added in, so just trying to give the most complete data. If there was a way to get 100 damage on an item I would
Oh ya, on another note, arrows are very common for pvp with any mod pack. So yes, I think a max damage arrow is very important to know about.
Boss mobs are generally not encountered enough to require such lousy equipment to be required. You are not only destroying your range, you are also hurting your accuracy. This means, on average, you will be safer using less damaging arrows that can snipe opponents from a long range before they can hurt you rather than trying to close. Heck, by the time you get close enough that you have a chance of hitting with those Manny arrows, you might as well just pull out your cleaver or rapier.
That is your experience, it is one which is not shared. A propensity for PvP in general, I mean, not archery being used as a venue in that medium. And again, once you get decent armor, the only thing that is going to work PvP is a rapier anyways.
I disagree on both based on experience, not opinion, but you are entitled to yours as I am entitled to mine. The fact remains that what I described is the highest damage output which is what I was looking for, and generally on the Internet, if one person is looking for something, then there is a good chance others are as well.
I think you have confused 'highest damage output' with 'highest raw damage numbers'. Remember, for damage to count, you actually have to hit your opponent. Therefore, the arrows you describe would likely not have an appreciable increase in damage over time or speed in eliminating enemies over the ones I describe due to inaccuracy and lack of range.
Of course, YMMV, but I don't think those arrows are going to work out as well for you as you think they will.
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