There would never be a unified BC+TE+IC2 cable, it would be the same individual cables we have now and you get to choose which one you use and it then acts exactly like it does now. the only difference would be the ability to plug in any generator and any machine to that every cable.
Thermal Expansion Status
- Thread starter King Lemming
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Question: Does breaking away from the BC power distribution system change the thoughts surrounding the creation of TE-created item distribution system? Could small amounts of Redstone Flux be utilized to propel items down a modified Conduit (and maybe send short item-based messages/metadata as related to item sorting?) 
actually there are both grounded(earth) and ungrounded pins in the rest of europe:
grounded:
Not Grounded:
actually, it's even more complicated.
your 3 contact power connector is already a universal one. here in austria, but also in germany, the earth-contact is at the side
http://pics.ts-audio.de/big/ts7/28/ts728br/ts728br_1.jpg
whereas in french system has a seperated pin inside the power socket
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/E_plug_and_socket.jpg
whereas the italian system has a third pin between the two power pins.
http://www.conrad.de/medias/global/ce/5000_5999/5500/5510/5516/551681_BB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
and all those nice jackets are incompatible, if you need the earth-contact.
to make it even more complicated:
switzerland
http://www.conrad.de/medias/global/ce/5000_5999/5500/5510/5516/551681_BB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
this is again incompatible to the other systems
poland uses the french system
spain and portugal use the german system
and so on, you really need to know, where you can go in order to use your stuff. at least, it's 220V 50 Hz everywhere.
PowerConvertors is not an API. Just a matter of terminology.
I think you're misunderstanding what an API is and what it would do. As I described in my wall of text earlier, the API I am suggesting would only standardize the functions for adding or removing power from some entity. It would be implemented on blocks (or items) that use, store, or generate power. It would not control cables AT ALL. NONE. Each network would still have complete freedom to move power however it liked, it could just talk to a greater variety of generators, batteries and machines.
Really, it wouldn't even need to standardize the units, as long as information on what kind of power was being passed was also given, a block or item could choose to not except it, or convert it internally. Although a unified unit would be a great idea and make it much easier.
I have a different idea about that.
like it's done in IC2 (as far as I understood) and apparently KL does something similar: by constructing the powernetwork (by the player), the system compiles the blocks into a network. so the system knows how the machines are connected and if a machine demands energy, the energy (and the request) doesn't need to hop from block to block in order to reach the destination but it directly looks up how many blocks of wire are in a line and calculates the resistance, meaning the loss.
so I think of one network-system in forge, that handles various energy-IDs. the producer, the cable, battery, converter, tesseract and the consumer just tells which energy ID (or IDs) it supports, and the cables tell the resistance-factor (and the system how to calculate: flat, in steps, continuous, lossless).
the system does not care about how the modder balances everything. no one tells how much smelting or macerating costs. the modder on the other hand just needs to get an energy-ID if he wants an own system, and think about what should something cost. with that, a modder does not need to set up his own energysystem anymore.
like it's done in IC2 (as far as I understood) and apparently KL does something similar: by constructing the powernetwork (by the player), the system compiles the blocks into a network. so the system knows how the machines are connected and if a machine demands energy, the energy (and the request) doesn't need to hop from block to block in order to reach the destination but it directly looks up how many blocks of wire are in a line and calculates the resistance, meaning the loss.
so I think of one network-system in forge, that handles various energy-IDs. the producer, the cable, battery, converter, tesseract and the consumer just tells which energy ID (or IDs) it supports, and the cables tell the resistance-factor (and the system how to calculate: flat, in steps, continuous, lossless).
the system does not care about how the modder balances everything. no one tells how much smelting or macerating costs. the modder on the other hand just needs to get an energy-ID if he wants an own system, and think about what should something cost. with that, a modder does not need to set up his own energysystem anymore.
Your network system would not work for Minecraft Joules or Charge (possibly Universal Electricity too; haven't used it) which are based on the interaction of individual blocks, not compiled networks.
Actually, these cables already exist... Mekanism's Universal Cables (and the storage devices - Energy Cubes) will connect to any machine and will automatically transmit the correct type of power (EU/MJ/Joules) for the connected device. Not only that, but you can connect all three types of consumers to the exact same line of cable and they *all* receive the correct type of power simultaneously. Last world (playing Resonant Rise) my starter machine setup was 4 Mekanism Windmills feeding into a Basic Energy Cube, then a line of Universal Cable attached to a TE Pulverizer/P.Furnace, IC2 Compressor/Extractor, Mek Metallurgic Infuser, and Dartcraft Infusion Table.
While I have heard that Aidan's code for the cables was kinda kludgy and not very server friendly, they do show that this functionality is not only possible but already in use.
My point was there would never be a universal cable if a central api was created. I realize it's possible i'd just rather choose between whichever native cables are available
Ah, gotcha. While I would personally like to see a universal cable (my wiring is messy enough with only 1 power line), I would never expect everyone else to have to use it if they didn't want to. As already mentioned, a proper API takes the grunt work out of common tasks without constraining a modder's creativity.
As far as my opinions go, I think that the biggest advantage to a power API might be that energy becomes unified without being made the same, if that makes any sense. Consider a hypothetical Forge hook for registering energy points. Regardless of what energy you would be using, you would be moving X amounts of forge energy. And since forge energy = forge energy, this would mean that all energy could be used anywhere. But does that have to infringe on the modders' creativity? Not at all! Indeed I would hope it would increase the diversity of power systems that we have. Because you see, even if the energy is all the same you can still make your power system the way it fits your design goals. With any luck, what this would result in is energy systems where what produces power and what uses them is irrelevant; how the energy is being transported and routed is important.
I find that even now, with the myriad of different things available, I only ever use two things: IC2 power and TE power. Regardless of what the advantages of other systems might be, without built-in compatibility you would have to make a point of, say, setting up an MFR system even if you basically have no machines to power with it, and I think it is a shame. A fully modded-out Minecraft has so many things to use and do, and I would much prefer to use each of them than not to; after all, I could get much the same experience with less mods, and have less CPU strain to boot. For instance, I drown in lead, but really the only thing I am using it for is making hardened glass. Likewise, if I had Metallurgy installed, I would basically do nothing at all with a lot of the things I pulled out of the ground because the option to use them is not there. In much the same way I see the current state of power systems. Better compatibility could open a whole new range of things for the player to do! I envision a scenario where choosing between leaky machines and distance loss is only a small subset of the options available for every undertaking that requires power, and indeed, instead of having a monolithic power system of one type with maybe a few converters at the ends for different machines you could more or less freely mix and match to fit your needs exactly.
Now I realise that I am blowing fairy bubbles all over the place, but in my opinion KL's current undertaking to make a simple, extensible power system wrapper is a large step towards the remote possibility of maybe someday seeing that happening.
I find that even now, with the myriad of different things available, I only ever use two things: IC2 power and TE power. Regardless of what the advantages of other systems might be, without built-in compatibility you would have to make a point of, say, setting up an MFR system even if you basically have no machines to power with it, and I think it is a shame. A fully modded-out Minecraft has so many things to use and do, and I would much prefer to use each of them than not to; after all, I could get much the same experience with less mods, and have less CPU strain to boot. For instance, I drown in lead, but really the only thing I am using it for is making hardened glass. Likewise, if I had Metallurgy installed, I would basically do nothing at all with a lot of the things I pulled out of the ground because the option to use them is not there. In much the same way I see the current state of power systems. Better compatibility could open a whole new range of things for the player to do! I envision a scenario where choosing between leaky machines and distance loss is only a small subset of the options available for every undertaking that requires power, and indeed, instead of having a monolithic power system of one type with maybe a few converters at the ends for different machines you could more or less freely mix and match to fit your needs exactly.
Now I realise that I am blowing fairy bubbles all over the place, but in my opinion KL's current undertaking to make a simple, extensible power system wrapper is a large step towards the remote possibility of maybe someday seeing that happening.
Actually, that sounds like a fairly easy way to go about it. Just translate your power, let's use my mod's MCU for example, into Forge Power, which would allow it to be translated into MJ, EU, Blutricity, Charge, or UE power almost seamlessly. The thing is, I could see this easily being abused by unscrupulous players to create positive power loops. Granted, that can already be done with MFR and boilers, along with many other ways, but it'd make it less complicated. Though, that could be accounted for by wire resistance and such, it'd just need a fair bit of balancing so fewer people would complain.
Though, Mekanism's universal cables are pretty damned handy. In the pack on which I play, however, I tend to go with the BC side of the power transmission spectrum simply because the "cables" are easier to mass produce and EnderIO's energy conduits for later once you've gotten some nether quartz and such.
I am not exactly a keep-up-with-the-metagame sort of person, so I hope you will excuse me if I am not at all informed of ways to generate positive power loops (in fact I was pretty sure that essentially making all energy an underlying single type would prevent rather than proliferate such issues), so could you explain a bit? Or, given that it is probably rather tedious, direct me to a handy location where somebody did?
Well regardless, in that case then yes, you would need to pay attention to balance. But generally you need that in modpacks (for instance, IC2's Industrial Fertiliser completely undercuts Sengir's plan for fertiliser - whether that is a good thing or not, I don't know. I certainly wish it were less easy to make, because in essence it's just a more convenient mulch that can be translated into normally non-renewable fertiliser).
EDIT: Well, my original intent was really to be able to use as many systems as possible should I wish to do so. Systems that all run on the same stuff but have slightly different mechanisms, advantages and drawbacks would certainly suit me in ways that the current unifier mods that just shove everything into one do not. But to each their own, eh?
Well regardless, in that case then yes, you would need to pay attention to balance. But generally you need that in modpacks (for instance, IC2's Industrial Fertiliser completely undercuts Sengir's plan for fertiliser - whether that is a good thing or not, I don't know. I certainly wish it were less easy to make, because in essence it's just a more convenient mulch that can be translated into normally non-renewable fertiliser).
EDIT: Well, my original intent was really to be able to use as many systems as possible should I wish to do so. Systems that all run on the same stuff but have slightly different mechanisms, advantages and drawbacks would certainly suit me in ways that the current unifier mods that just shove everything into one do not. But to each their own, eh?
but the behavior of this individual block exchange could be simulated. just count the amount of blocks, and calculate the amount of resistance. the nice part would be, that no modder needs to rely on powerful servers or that people just set up small networks. with this system, every modder just defines for a furnace: this thing needs energy with ID 5, every smelting process costs 500 units of ID5, and done. with that it would already interact with a network that exchanges ID 5 energy.
Aye, I do prefer working with multiple power types, or at least power sources. Redundancy helps ensure a more stable power supply. Tis why I like to mingle Mekanism, Ender IO, BuildCraft, Forestry, and Railcraft. The end result always ends up as MJ, mostly because of convenience, but each mod is good for various things. Mekanism is good for a stable, constant power supply that requires little to no maintenance and a similar story goes for Ender IO and its photovoltaic panels. BC, Forestry, and Railcraft are good for large amounts of power for systems that require it, like large ore processing facilities and such; however, they tend to require more in the way of maintenance than the former two.
Are those deliberate design decisions, or just artifacts of how the code was written? I suspect that it is the latter, therefore it doesn't really matter if it changes.
Holy crap, I just installed 1.6.4 to test some of the new mods and I'm using the standard BC water pipes instead of the Liquiducts.. do you know how horrible this is? I can't describe how shit these things are, I didn't remember them beings this terrible but my god this is horrifing. A simple Steel Tank -> Fuel Drum transfer takes about 40-50x longer then a Liquiduct would take, theres only 8 pipes in this chain 1 wooden, 7 golden and I can see the liquid just randomly going were ever it pleases despite the one possible place it can go at the speed of molasses... this is just... I can't do it, without Thermal Expansion 1.6.4 is unplayable.
Wow...that sure sounds aweful.
But are you using an Emerald Fluid Pipe instead of a Wooden Fluid Pipe?
Also, do you have Iron Fluid Pipes too? That pipe makes sure everything goes to the direction you set it to.
Just FYI, I didn't test out the 1.6 build of BC at all. Only reading the wiki, I know their pipe system isn't the best but I sure hope it isn't as as horrendous as it sounds.
But are you using an Emerald Fluid Pipe instead of a Wooden Fluid Pipe?
Also, do you have Iron Fluid Pipes too? That pipe makes sure everything goes to the direction you set it to.
Just FYI, I didn't test out the 1.6 build of BC at all. Only reading the wiki, I know their pipe system isn't the best but I sure hope it isn't as as horrendous as it sounds.
Indeed, I've noticed that in the DW20 Forgecraft 2 episodes. Waterproof pipes are painfully slow.
i`m not sure, but mekanism`s mechanical pipes might be less terrible alternative to liquiducts than waterproof pipes
Am I right in thinking that these changes will apply to the next release of Thermal Expansion, which will presumably be for 1.6? Or will there be a straight port of current functionality to 1.6, and then the new version with changed mechanics?
In other words, is this a hole-below-the-waterline for Unleashed making a seamless transition to 1.6?
In other words, is this a hole-below-the-waterline for Unleashed making a seamless transition to 1.6?
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