Which magic mod to get started in?

[KingTriaxx]

Personally I wish it was a configurable thing. Especially if the effort were put in to make them only run the decay timer when they're actually generating mana. And have it slowly regen when they aren't. So Dayblooms regain time during the night and Nightshades get it back during the day. Providing some impetus to stay awake at night instead of instantly sleeping.

 

[GreenZombie]

If you do so, you disable 1/3 of the challenge and at least fun of Botania. No good advice

Opinions may differ. If this is (1/3 of) the challenge of Botania then the mods challenge is all wrong. And, speaking for myself, passive flower decay is the opposite of fun.

 

[RavynousHunter]

While the passive flowers aren't all that expensive, I have to agree that the decay is irritating in all but one instance: when you can accelerate the flowers. A Watch of Flowing Time or Tile Accelerator make them generate mana super quick. With the decay, this comes at the cost of them decaying super-quick, too.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Especially if the effort were put in to make them only run the decay timer when they're actually generating mana. And have it slowly regen when they aren't. So Dayblooms regain time during the night and Nightshades get it back during the day. Providing some impetus to stay awake at night instead of instantly sleeping.

As far as I know they only decay when actively producing mana. (I'll test this out in a bit)
I kinda like the regen idea- One could set up a fairly neat system with pistons and timers.


--edit-- turns out the do decay regardless

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you do so, you disable 1/3 of the challenge and at least fun of Botania. No good advice

Monotony /= challenge. If your idea of challenge is tossing petals into an apothecary... well, I suppose we have very different definitions of the term.

 

[Nedrith]

Monotony /= challenge. If your idea of challenge is tossing petals into an apothecary... well, I suppose we have very different definitions of the term.

Honestly I don't see how disabling passive flower decay decreasubg monotony if anything it increases it. Granted I also consider using passive flowers to be an increase in challenge as I hate making a ton of them and they generate very little for a more active setup. I usually make 2-4 dayblooms and use those to make endoflames. Each endoflame has the power of something like 30 dayblooms and are extremely easy to automate. basically just a redstone clock, dropper and pressure plate. add your favorite way to pipe charcoal in and you got a ton of mana.

using Pam's harvestcraft's higher forms of food is even more interesting and expensive though but usually I wait for AE to autocraft the food before I do that.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Honestly I don't see how disabling passive flower decay decreasubg monotony if anything it increases it. Granted I also consider using passive flowers to be an increase in challenge as I hate making a ton of them and they generate very little for a more active setup. I usually make 2-4 dayblooms and use those to make endoflames. Each endoflame has the power of something like 30 dayblooms and are extremely easy to automate. basically just a redstone clock, dropper and pressure plate. add your favorite way to pipe charcoal in and you got a ton of mana.

using Pam's harvestcraft's higher forms of food is even more interesting and expensive though but usually I wait for AE to autocraft the food before I do that.

Who makes a ton of the things anyway? I set up a trickle charge garden, nine hydrodrangeas and some dayblooms and nightshades surrounding them, then move on to other things. I just find it to be more than a bit disingenuous that the only flowers you CAN start off with are inevitably going to decay.

There's zero challenge involved in tossing petals into a pool. It does not add to or take away from challenge. Removing passive decay simply makes the mod less tedious.

 

[Inaeo]

Not to belabor this debate further, but I do understand the idea behind having passives decay. The idea was to force people deeper into the Mana generation chain, rather than mass produce a metric shitton of passives. I'm not saying I think this was the right solution, but I understand why it got nerfed.

My biggest gripe about the passive decay is my personal playstyle. I'm usually all over the place as I get things set up, with a thousand projects going on at the same time. Occasionally (read: constantly), I get sidetracked away for a while, only to come back an hour, a day, or even a week later to dive back in. With passive decay, I find myself making flowers, placing them down, getting distracted, returning to find no flowers, rinse and repeat. If the timer only ticked while producing, it might help, but I doubt it would be much better unless the timer did regen when they were not producing.

 

[KingTriaxx]

Perhaps the worst thing was that it wasn't there to begin with. If it had started so they decayed, and stuck to that, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But it didn't and then changed.

 

[Inaeo]

Perhaps the worst thing was that it wasn't there to begin with. If it had started so they decayed, and stuck to that, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But it didn't and then changed.

I'll buy that logic. If people didn't know it could be anything other than what they have now, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'll buy that logic. If people didn't know it could be anything other than what they have now, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

It also likely wouldn't have been nearly as popular had that been the case from the beginning. I know I would've never touched it.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

It also likely wouldn't have been nearly as popular had that been the case from the beginning. I know I would've never touched it.

They may have lost a few players, but not a significant amount- unless I'm mistaken a lot of Botania's awesomeness came from all the other features not just 3 flowers. The vast, vast majority would just accept as normal and carry on.

My main issue with the decay is the lack of polish. Nerfs are design features too, show them some love and they'll shine. Right now it just feels half done and unfinished. Ding!
Oh, and +1 sin for leaving it on the backburner for a while, then doing the above. Ding!

 

[p1ddly]

Monotony /= challenge. If your idea of challenge is tossing petals into an apothecary... well, I suppose we have very different definitions of the term.

Sory, i don't quite follow. Producing hundrets of Dayblooms and Nightshades is monotony. You can generate way more mana with less flowers. The purpose of Botania is not producing 100 Dayblooms and repeat after decay. It is automation of Endoflames and Thermalilies (easy/ less mana) to Kekimurus (hard/more mana).

You can compare with RF generation. You can scale out Ender IO Solar panels because you don't want to care about energy generation. But the more RF you need, the more advanced production methods you're looking at. Botania is almost the same with mana.

 

[Inaeo]

Remember that Botania is a tech mod disguised as a magic mod by not giving you and hard numbers to nerd out over. All power generation principles carry over as if it were and other power system.

 

[GreenZombie]

I feel this thread has become derailed by discussion about the merits of Botania. While I personally feel its a deeply flawed mod, and could expound at length why I feel so, this would not serve the author of the mod well and the many people that actually like it, because, whatever I think about it, its a damn sight more creative than anything ive managed, and the mod ecosystem is better for it.

So, perhaps we can get back to discussing the merits of magic mods as they pertain to the early game?

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sory, i don't quite follow. Producing hundrets of Dayblooms and Nightshades is monotony. You can generate way more mana with less flowers. The purpose of Botania is not producing 100 Dayblooms and repeat after decay. It is automation of Endoflames and Thermalilies (easy/ less mana) to Kekimurus (hard/more mana).

You can compare with RF generation. You can scale out Ender IO Solar panels because you don't want to care about energy generation. But the more RF you need, the more advanced production methods you're looking at. Botania is almost the same with mana.

I think you missed my point entirely. Someone was saying that non-decaying passive flowers cuts out 2/3 of the challenge of the mod. Which I responded to that it isn't particularly challenging to make flowers, it is tedious.

I'm not sure where you get the idea I think it's a good idea to make hundreds of passive flowers. I rarely have more than a dozen or so of each type.

If Vaskii wanted to stop spamming passives all over the place in the manner in which you describe, a better way would've been simply have a secondary conditional of 'if more than x of the same type of passive (or really, any) flower exists within the same <area>, then they all get the adjacency penalty. That would've solved the spamming problem entirely.

 

[KingTriaxx]

One of the mods I used to be a big fan of was Ars Magicka 2. It had a relatively simple magic system with some awesome crafting mechanics. Occasionally you'd find yourself running hither and tither to find them, but the spells created were worth it. I had a jump/feather falling spell that I adored. Combined with fireball for shooting enemies, and a touch range dig spell, and I ended up unstoppable early on. Nothing quite like being a wizard blasting your way through a roguelike dungeon for example.