What happened to advanced solars cost?

[BirdOfPrey]

Indeed, if they didn't produce all that lag, we would all still be using the basic solar panel and large fields. Solar panels were not designed for compact builds.

I'm sure there's some way of turning a field of solar panels into a multiblock structure, which then only sends out one packet based on the total panels in the field.

it's called CompactSolars and it's in all packs excluding Tech & MindCrack
it creates a single block instead of a multiblock structure and it is as balanced as normal solar panels
http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=4827
a HV Solar Array produces 512EU but costs more than 512 normal solar panels but because it's a single block it doesn't lag as much as 512 solar panels would
if you build it by hand, be prepared to spend a lot of hours

 

[Golrith]

Yes, I know that, having used that mod for over a year.

It does defeat the whole point of solar fields. They are not supposed to be compact, but due to the code, they lag. IC2 really needs to get some fresh development and think of alternate ways of coding the system to stop the lag.

 

[Velotican]

It can't be fixed without writing an IndustrialCraft 3, which I actually suspect will show up eventually but I digress.

The reason they cause lag is down to the fact they send lots of small packets of electricity and each packet is processed separately. On servers where everyone's going to have their own set the packet spam becomes so huge it cripples the server's ability to respond to input from players because it's too busy processing all the solar power packets. (I've done this by mistake on a single player world with a Quantum Generator so I've seen what this is like in extreme cases. It took roughly a minute to open NEI.)

Because all IC2 power is built on the same framework, either the solar units have to be revised into compact forms that produce less power packets that are much larger (advanced/compact solars) or they have to completely redesign the energy framework, which requires rebuilding the mod entirely. Regardless of how the player base seems to see it, it appears the IC2 folks actually want you to think about power generation rather than fire and forget.

 

[Hoff]

They could wholly change solar panels so that as you connect more of them to each other they form new multi-block structures up to a certain size. They could then emit packets the size of the number of solars attached.

 

[Golrith]

It can't be fixed without writing an IndustrialCraft 3, which I actually suspect will show up eventually but I digress.

The reason they cause lag is down to the fact they send lots of small packets of electricity and each packet is processed separately. On servers where everyone's going to have their own set the packet spam becomes so huge it cripples the server's ability to respond to input from players because it's too busy processing all the solar power packets. (I've done this by mistake on a single player world with a Quantum Generator so I've seen what this is like in extreme cases. It took roughly a minute to open NEI.)

Because all IC2 power is built on the same framework, either the solar units have to be revised into compact forms that produce less power packets that are much larger (advanced/compact solars) or they have to completely redesign the energy framework, which requires rebuilding the mod entirely. Regardless of how the player base seems to see it, it appears the IC2 folks actually want you to think about power generation rather than fire and forget.

True, but TBH once I saw the new Nuclear system, I just gave up on it - I never touched it in Tekkit, and was going to play with it in FTB until I saw all the new components. All the other power systems are fire and forget (or forget for a very long time) though, so currently finding MJ production more interesting.

 

[Dravarden]

Keep dreaming on IC3, hell, IC never gives us new stuff gbesides reactor upgrade), they just update for the version, not to add new things.

You know, the Advanced Solar Panels maintainer has inspired me with their sense of balance, and I've come around to their way of thinking. So now, out of the goodness of my heart and in the same spirit of fair play as the new and improved Advanced Solar Panel recipe, I'm going to make the following offer*, which should appeal to everyone who likes the new recipe:

If you send me $1,000, I will send you $2 a year every year for the rest of my life. That's free, guaranteed income, that you don't have to work for at all! In fact, I'm such a nice guy that I'll let you take advantage of this marvelous offer as many times as you like! Send me $10,000 and I'll send you $20 a year! You could potentially earn unlimited** amounts of money from this deal! Hey, wait! Where are you going? Don't you want all this free money?

* Not a real offer.
** Provided scientists discover how to make me immortal.

Also to make me immortal, because to get back the 1000$ at that rate, in 500 years I get them back.

 

[Exasperation]

Also to make me immortal, because to get back the 1000$ at that rate, in 500 years I get them back.

That's exactly my point: the time required to recoup the initial investment is unreasonable and unrealistic. I expect that by the time I've set up a matter fab, generated my first 2 uum (9 if I can't find the iridium elsewhere and have to use uum for it), and played for an additional 100 hours after that (or 450 hours if I'm making my iridium out of uum), I will be generating a new world because all the mods will have been updated for 1.5 (or maybe because they've been updated for 1.6... 450 hours is a lot of play-time). So, realistically speaking, the new recipe costs more energy to produce than an Advanced Solar Panel is going to generate over its entire lifetime. It's only remotely close to balanced if you're playing on a server that's running 24/7 (and even then you're better off spending your resources on something that gives you more return for your investment).

 

[esotericist]

It's only remotely close to balanced if you're playing on a server that's running 24/7 (and even then you're better off spending your resources on something that gives you more return for your investment).

A server that's running 24/7 AND has enabled chunk loaders AND you are able to deploy chunk loaders AND it's either configured for indefinite running or you can get the fuel to run the chunk loaders constantly...

... and you're still not getting your energy recovered for a very long time.

 

[Dravarden]

A server that's running 24/7 AND has enabled chunk loaders AND you are able to deploy chunk loaders AND it's either configured for indefinite running or you can get the fuel to run the chunk loaders constantly...

... and you're still not getting your energy recovered for a very long time.

and they work when you are not online...

anyway, compact solar in my opinion are way better than advanced solars, they make more sense. They should not even exist advanced/compact, is like doing a compact water generator or wind turbine, they are supposed to power your stuff early game, not for like 512 eu.

but the one I like is the one from UE, is like an umbrella

 

[Exasperation]

A server that's running 24/7 AND has enabled chunk loaders AND you are able to deploy chunk loaders AND it's either configured for indefinite running or you can get the fuel to run the chunk loaders constantly...

... and you're still not getting your energy recovered for a very long time.

Or you manage to take over the area that's always loaded by default for your power generation, but yeah; about 4 to 20 days under the best possible conditions (if you're - for the sake of argument - playing 3 hours a day of singleplayer on average, you're looking at 1 to 5 months to break even).

Edit: also, it can never rain.

 

[Dravarden]

Or you manage to take over the area that's always loaded by default for your power generation, but yeah; about 4 to 20 days under the best possible conditions (if you're - for the sake of argument - playing 3 hours a day of singleplayer on average, you're looking at 1 to 5 months to break even).

Edit: also, it can never rain.

or even be nightime... (or did you already calculated that one?)

 

[Exasperation]

or even be nightime... (or did you already calculated that one?)

Yeah, nighttime is already figured into those numbers.

 

[Dravarden]

Yeah, nighttime is already figured into those numbers.

also, take into account you don't do: ''hey guys gonna be leaving for a month so get some uu so take care of ma stuff bro!'' and then they screw you after 2 days and cover your solar pannels

 

[Chocorate]

Really? 8 EU/t during the day, 1 EU/t during the night, is such an amazing benefit to justify the cost of 2 UUM and 1 iridium ingot? And that's the normal recipe, not the hard recipe.

I really wonder about the IC2 community sometimes.

Any day now, watermills are going to start costing stacks of platinum.

And the sticks on it will require 2 dragon eggs each, of course.

As much as I believe Solar Panels may be a little bit OP, I don't think that making them end-game in crafting terms was the solution. I would totally be fine of the nerfed the power output by like 25% (and made the power production more complicated, not just pointing at the sky and stuff [like watermills and windmills which also need to be more complicated {and buffed of course}]) and left the crafting the same. Yeah, I do hate that on a server, my friend and I have no need for our coke oven due to him making a single ADV Solar Panel. No, I don't believe pushing yet another simple thing further into endgame and giving the players less things to make in early-midgame is the answer. At least make it a config option.

On the other hand, TE is still becoming better than IC2 in many more ways..

 

[biomirth]

I thought the post earlier suggesting that people don't want to think about where their electricity comes from was quite interesting. It's true. When I boot my computer I don't want to have to think something like "Did I shovel the manure and put it in the hopper for the biofuel generator and have I done a maintenance sweep of my power production facilities?". The startup costs for activities can be prohibitive if taken too far. On the other hand it is a good point to consider in a sociological sense.

The reason I didn't find the old recipes too OP is that there is soooo much to do in FTB that I want to create systems that need very little babysitting while I work on other areas of the game. If we were just playing Industrialcraft and the whole point was to sit around nursing our mad factories into ever greater complexity, then fine, but there are 60+ other mods I want to go play with and the factory has to be able to take care of itself to some extent.

I've never had greater early power production early on than my first FTB world where I happened upon a tremendous oil well (didn't know they varied at the time) and set up a few refineries, a huge iron tank, and some gregtech petro generators attached to 3 Mufasas. It took minutes to generate millions of power beyond what I could use at the time.

But despite that success with petrochemicals I've used Advanced Solars ever since that world and have not messed with oil again. I'd rather focus on automation for awhile and then Thaumcraft whilst some quarries diggy holes in the background. I need the option to have free infinite power to do that. The price is that I've ignored other EU generation for awhile, and I guess therein lies the problem: Why would I ever go back to oil if I can just add more advanced solar?

But there has to be some middle ground so that we can make some numpty early systems and let them rip (quarry and biogas perhaps?) while wandering off into other aspects of play. The first automation is the first "tier" or stepping stone which is very satisfying and liberating. Some of the accommodations to "balance" the linearity of progress seem to me to be impinging on striding that first hurdle quickly. Save the noobs! Give them something to setup quickly, if somewhat inefficiently, to achieve stable automation early on. I'd rather see more efforts to simplify the early stuff than to stretch out the more advanced stuff. Before FTB nobody "finished" minecraft.

I think making some of the other EU production more attractive would be part of a nice comprimise. Make oil last 8x as long, or lava generation be slightly simpler, or better yet make a really nice multiblock EU biogas generator that was fairly easy to automate. Energy is going to be free in the end. Its an infinite virtual world with no labor laws! Smelting Zombies should be the most OP. We need to encourage far more of that.

 

[Mash]

The materials to craft the advanced solar panel require more energy than advanced solar panels(let alone lower tier power sources) can feasibly provide.

That's the issue. To begin producing UU matter with reasonable speed, you need dozens of these panels, yet each one costs... 2 of the material that you don't have the means to produce yet.

Instead of nerfing solar, they should have made windmills and watermills more viable.

I don't like upgrading to a downgrade.

 

[noskk]

The materials to craft the advanced solar panel require more energy than advanced solar panels(let alone lower tier power sources) can feasibly provide.

That's the issue. To begin producing UU matter with reasonable speed, you need dozens of these panels, yet each one costs... 2 of the material that you don't have the means to produce yet.

Instead of nerfing solar, they should have made windmills and watermills more viable.

I don't like upgrading to a downgrade.

IMO, the issue is with uum, because uum is harder to get than iridium (in mindcrack/ultimate), I wish there would be another ASP recipe that required no uum but still have iridium in it.

 

[RedBoss]

i really don't get it it. instead of bothering about solar panels, why isn't anyone harping about IC3?

Eloraam can't get a off day over people bothering her to update, and everyone was riding Soaryn's behind about xycraft functionality. IC2 is behind the times. Greg did his best but to be honest, the other mods offer so much more than IC2. there's at least 3 other mods that i know of off hand that increase ore output. TE has completely replaced 1st tier ore processing in total. Why is there a need for IC2 other than the armor? Oh wait, there's a new mod that covers that too.

I still use IC2, only sparingly. I get most of the points in this thread, but doesn't it REALLY boildown to there being a need for an IndustrialCraft overhaul? People who love IC2 don't need new recipes, they need a fresh mod.

RichardG, Sir, the people humbly request IC3.

 

[Dravarden]

i really don't get it it. instead of bothering about solar panels, why isn't anyone harping about IC3?

Eloraam can't get a off day over people bothering her to update, and everyone was riding Soaryn's behind about xycraft functionality. IC2 is behind the times. Greg did his best but to be honest, the other mods offer so much more than IC2. there's at least 3 other mods that i know of off hand that increase ore output. TE has completely replaced 1st tier ore processing in total. Why is there a need for IC2 other than the armor? Oh wait, there's a new mod that covers that too.

I still use IC2, only sparingly. I get most of the points in this thread, but doesn't it REALLY boildown to there being a need for an IndustrialCraft overhaul? People who love IC2 don't need new recipes, they need a fresh mod.

RichardG, Sir, the people humbly request IC3.

I guess you haven't seen my posts...

Just a peek: IC2 is always the same old mod, besides the nuclear reactor that nobody uses.

 

[jumpfight5]

Just a peek: IC2 is always the same old mod, besides the nuclear reactor that nobody uses.

Nobody used to use until Advanced Solars were nerfed