Trials of Murder [GAME THREAD]

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Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
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Both innocent on the off chance it makes any difference :)

gg everyone. That was reasonably amusing. I feel the prosecution/defense thing essentially tied the game and piss on whatever cheese says. The endgame comes down to how the village wants to play it, and ultimately I feel like Shaz, Vike and SpwnX mostly stopped playing days ago anyway.

Excellent play from goreae in this game, I liked it and I thought his strategies were pretty sound.

Good arguments from the prosecution. I would have liked to see a couple stronger points made.
One that comes to mind: I absolutely would have pushed harder on double-lynching inactives. Argument: "It's the only way to scare wolves into activity."

I strongly feel that segregating "best" players is a terrible idea. Make the prosecution/defense random.

I also feel they should be hidden roles like everyone else, and killable. So, basically back to "normal" werewolf, except you have 2-4 neutrals running around who don't care if the town or wolves win but just wanna keep track of verdicts. Yes this means you lose the whole "lawyer" feel, but I can't help but notice that most of the players in this game kinda quit being active since they weren't the "stars" of the show. So screw the lawyer feel, its not worth it.

Lastly: huge thanks to Cheese for the fun game; the first couple days showed some strong discussion, and I believe we learned an awful lot in this game about the merits of chatting and driving your votes off of that.
 

RJS

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Jul 29, 2019
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I ain't even mad. goreae MVP no doubt. But it does definitely show the advantage of being active and contributing in a game with 0 power roles. If we'd had more info on sg and J, then maybe things would be different. I think, next time this is done, we need a requirement to cast a vote, on pain of smite.
 

fowltief

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Jul 29, 2019
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I didn't feel any fun to be had with this game from my perspective. a bunch of roles with no power would be more informative then all neutrals in my opinion. Even with anti smite back in, people would just vote based on whatever the lawyers would say. If people have something to claim of their own and fight for. It would of been a much different game.

Instead of powe,r maybe an object/murder weapon that was on them at the time? i don't know just an idea.

Edit: Lenscas for MVP... your a seer... period. I don't know how you do it.
 
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lenscas

Over-Achiever
Jul 31, 2013
2,015
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Edit: Lenscas for MVP... your a seer... period. I don't know how you do it.
The problem is, neither do I. If I knew I probably would have reacted on it rather then yelling "OMG! I KNOW THIS WON'T BE THE CASE BUT WHAT IF {Insert thing here}! WOULDN'T THAT BE AMAZING!" like I have been doing this game >_<
 
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LivingAngryCheese

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Aug 22, 2014
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OOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I didn't feel any fun to be had with this game from my perspective. a bunch of roles with no power would be more informative then all neutrals in my opinion. Even with anti smite back in, people would just vote based on whatever the lawyers would say. If people have something to claim of their own and fight for. It would of been a much different game.

Instead of powe,r maybe an object/murder weapon that was on them at the time? i don't know just an idea.

Edit: Lenscas for MVP... your a seer... period. I don't know how you do it.
Something to claim? What? What are you talking about? You were supposed to find the wolves, you didn't need to listen to the lawyers... and are you saying that those four people aren't just going to be the people you follow anyway? I mean come on now, be honest.
 
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fowltief

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Jul 29, 2019
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Something to claim? What? What are you talking about? You were supposed to find the wolves, you didn't need to listen to the lawyers... and are you saying that those four people aren't just going to be the people you follow anyway? I mean come on now, be honest.
I am being honest.i think that unless your an expert at deducing a person i cant see how a villager can draw conclusions when everyone is nearly identical. Yes studying how people vote would help but i don't think it's enough info to sway people vs two people possibly claiming the same role and voting differently. I feel there was more luck and guessing then actual actively trying to find it from the villagers side.
 

LivingAngryCheese

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Aug 22, 2014
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I am being honest.i think that unless your an expert at deducing a person i cant see how a villager can draw conclusions when everyone is nearly identical. Yes studying how people vote would help but i don't think it's enough info to sway people vs two people possibly claiming the same role and voting differently. I feel there was more luck and guessing then actual actively trying to find it from the villagers side.
Fowl, you're literally saying right here that classic werewolf is impossible unless you're an expert.
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
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Waterloo, Ontario
this does not seem like classic to me... ingore me then... i don't know what i'm talking about.
Its all good dude, you're not making terrible points.

Cheese is mostly right here because on balance it comes out a bit like classic werewolf. Yeah we have the weird lawyer thing, but because their motivations are technically selfish and totally opposing, they kinda cancel out, and what you're left with is classic werewolf.

What goreae did was essentially exactly what a wolf is supposed to do: look really town, so that town thinks he's town. And meanwhile he just keeps murdering you.

Here's where you're right: The big problem, and the significant advantage that wolves had, was that there were ALWAYS two NON WOLF guys that were going to try to push to defend him, and there were ALWAYS two NON WOLF guys that were going to push to execute villagers. This means a lot of the information you can get from lynches gets washed out.

In a regular game, if a wolf has an even chance of being lynched, NOBODY is pushing hard to defend him: anyone who does dies in the same way Eruantien died in this game.
 
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goreae

Ultimate Murderous Fiend
Nov 27, 2012
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I ain't even mad. goreae MVP no doubt. But it does definitely show the advantage of being active and contributing in a game with 0 power roles. If we'd had more info on sg and J, then maybe things would be different. I think, next time this is done, we need a requirement to cast a vote, on pain of smite.
Even if you don't want to vote on either candidate, you could add an option to abstain, that is lock in a null vote.
 

goreae

Ultimate Murderous Fiend
Nov 27, 2012
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Raxacoricofallapatorius
What goreae did was essentially exactly what a wolf is supposed to do: look really town, so that town thinks he's town. And meanwhile he just keeps murdering you.
Not just look town, man I was town. I made analysis and actually caught myself thinking about who the wolves might be. When eru did that double guilty twice in a row thing, I called him out on it. SE37 was legitimately a martyr, but eru I just hopped on because he was gonna die anyways and I didn't want that to be in vain. That's how I wolf and as you see it's effective. You become a part of the village, a literal sheep in wolves' clothing. At the end I was actually suggesting the wolves might be employing the exact strategies I was employing because if it comes out of my mouth, it makes people think that it might be happening, but it's probably not me that's doing it.

And wolf thread ho!
screencapture-forum-feed-the-beast-com-conversations-wolf-thread-45068-1459870912230.png
screencapture-forum-feed-the-beast-com-conversations-wolf-thread-45068-page-2-1459870955968.png

screencapture-forum-feed-the-beast-com-conversations-wolf-thread-45068-page-3-1459870972826.png
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
8,334
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Waterloo, Ontario
Not just look town, man I was town. I made analysis and actually caught myself thinking about who the wolves might be. When eru did that double guilty twice in a row thing, I called him out on it. SE37 was legitimately a martyr, but eru I just hopped on because he was gonna die anyways and I didn't want that to be in vain. That's how I wolf and as you see it's effective. You become a part of the village, a literal sheep in wolves' clothing. At the end I was actually suggesting the wolves might be employing the exact strategies I was employing because if it comes out of my mouth, it makes people think that it might be happening, but it's probably not me that's doing it.

And wolf thread ho!
Fun read, thanks goreae :)

I like how you developed a strategy to tar the inactives and it totes played out just like that. Inactivity was essentially a primary theme of the entire game and you found that and leveraged it to your advantage.
 
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LivingAngryCheese

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Aug 22, 2014
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Its all good dude, you're not making terrible points.

Cheese is mostly right here because on balance it comes out a bit like classic werewolf. Yeah we have the weird lawyer thing, but because their motivations are technically selfish and totally opposing, they kinda cancel out, and what you're left with is classic werewolf.

What goreae did was essentially exactly what a wolf is supposed to do: look really town, so that town thinks he's town. And meanwhile he just keeps murdering you.

Here's where you're right: The big problem, and the significant advantage that wolves had, was that there were ALWAYS two NON WOLF guys that were going to try to push to defend him, and there were ALWAYS two NON WOLF guys that were going to push to execute villagers. This means a lot of the information you can get from lynches gets washed out.

In a regular game, if a wolf has an even chance of being lynched, NOBODY is pushing hard to defend him: anyone who does dies in the same way Eruantien died in this game.
Hmm, yeah it IS true that not being alone in defending yourself does make the wolves stronger, but it does mean legit villagers won't be lynched as much.
By the way, the end of game tomorrow will probably be extremely late, I'm going on holiday!
 

Pyure

Not Totally Useless
Aug 14, 2013
8,334
7,191
383
Waterloo, Ontario
You can probably wrap this game up soon can't you? We have lots of votes, and votes are locked automatically. SpwnX says he thinks everyone's innocent.