transformers energy loss?

[kazie]

I've gotten to the point where I'm using mfsu for energy storage. I want to use transformers to power my tier 1 machines, but I'm kinda confused on the whole thing. If I transform 512eu/t to 32eu/t, does that mean i lose 480 eu in the process? I mean 512 goes into the transformers and 32 eu comes out...right? That would mean the mfsu's storage has 6% effectiveness, and I'm getting horrible returns for the power I'm generating.
I've thought about using transformer upgrades in the tier 1 machines so it could take hv. Would that work?

Am I just completely wrong on this whole subject? I have to admit I'm sort of iffy on the whole eup and eu/t thing

 

[ICountFrom0]

Right, time for the hard lesson Kazie, if I loose you anywhere, just let me know.

First. Packets. Picture cables as pipes with invisible items in them. These items come in sizes, 1, 32, 128, 512, 2048. Now sometimes you'll get ones that are partially filled, but those will still blow up machines and wires as if they are full size. If a 512 size packet goes in to a transformer, it'll be turned into 4 packets of 128. That 128 then hits the 2nd transformer and it'll become packets of 32. If you see an electrical engine that needs 34EU, it'll take a packet of 128, use what it needs and store the rest, then request more when it needs it again. If the wires can't handle 128 they explode.

Second, power loss over distance. This will deplete the contents of a packet, until it's down to 0, but these packets will still act like they are the original size, this means you can't make a 128 packet into a 127 packet to use with an advance machine that has a limit of 127. Think of them as boxes, as they go down the cable somebody reaches in and takes a handful of eu out of the inside and sends it on. If the box is HUGE, say 512, it will do damage as it goes down the line. As it takes per packet, you need to keep things running in as few packets over as little distance as possible.

Third, EU/T. You'll see that as generation and costs. When it generates it makes all those packets, lots of small packets that very quickly burn out in cables. Tin is very useful for this as there is no loss until 40 length is used, the downside is that it can't handle more then 5 eu in any given packet. So it handles basic solar, it handles waterwheels, it handles the most windmills can turn out and lets the packets get pretty far before you stack them together in a batbox that then starts to make neat packages of 32 for copper cable. On the receiving side most EU using objects have internal storage. They will take a packet, up to the max size packet (they will take in a box, and move the contents to storage) and then deplete this internal battery by as many EU per Tick as it needs to run. There's 20 ticks to a second on a properly running server, a lagged server will give you less. As an example the electric furnace requires 390 EU for a smelt, it consumes this at a rate of 3 eu/t, that's 120 ticks, that's 6 seconds per smelt.

Packets are the hard mechanic to understand, and they are hidden from sight, I hope I've cast some light on it.

 

[Adonis0]

Something you missed

Transformers only perform one conversion per tick. This means that Feeding from 512EU/t to 32 EU/t you'll end up with a total output of 128 EU/t worth of 32 packets at the end. (Discounting distance based losses) You lose three packets of 128 EU/t between the MV transformer and LV transformer, as the MV is outputting four per tick, but the LV can only handle one per tick, and the others are discarded unless there's somewhere else to go (that is my understanding of it) It may be that the MV transformer holds onto the excess packets, thus only performs a conversion once every 4 ticks to keep up with the LV transformer.

Generally this doesn't affect your outcome, as the machines that use 32 EU/t have a hard time using up 128 EU/t even when overclocked, it's only when you get up to 7-8 overclockers that the machine while heating up uses more than that, but while running at full speed it uses less.

 

[Pharro]

I learned a valuable lesson while wiring a bunch of greg-tech machines...

I offer the following example.

First I had a row of 6 machines that required 128 EU/t each or 768 EU total.
My first design included 1 A.E.S.U outputting 768 EU/t packets going to one HV transformer going to one MV transformer.
Like Adonis0 stated, this design did not work. All the machines were vastly under powered.

So I figured maybe I need to break down the packets.
From the A.E.S.U. I connected 2 HV transformers -> Connecting to 3 MV transformers.


Hopefully this diagram comes out looking fine:

AESU
* HV * MV * machine
* HV * MV * machine
........* MV * machine
................* machine...

* = cables

When I did the same thing for another row of 24 machines that required 32 EU/t each or 768 EU total.
I basically just placed a LV transformer on each machine.

 

[Omicron]

You lose three packets of 128 EU/t between the MV transformer and LV transformer, as the MV is outputting four per tick, but the LV can only handle one per tick, and the others are discarded unless there's somewhere else to go (that is my understanding of it) It may be that the MV transformer holds onto the excess packets, thus only performs a conversion once every 4 ticks to keep up with the LV transformer.

It's the second case. All IC2 machines work with an internal buffer that must first be cleared before the machine requests more energy. So the MV transformer won't grab any additional EU from the MFSU until the LV-Tranformer on the other side has processed everything. It acts as a throughput choke, but you don't lose any EU in the process.

 

[Adonis0]

Ahh, Thank you for clearing that up Omicron