It's like the ic2 solar panel. Sure, it's relatively cheap and maintenance-free and you can spam lots of them but that doesn't discourage people from exploring higher tier power generation. Nuclear power is interesting to get into, but if people prefer to stick with solar panels then who cares?
The good things about Botania despawning passive plants
- Thread starter GreenZombie
- Start date
No.
No it isn't.
Did you read this topic?
This topic has a number of posts from people who's entire strategy was "use tier 1 flowers forever" it was said multiple times in multiple ways.
Hint: I'm ONE of them. I built a water tower, I'm proud of it.
Can you really try to pretend that people don't do that?
Also, if you'd read the article, she actually said she's okay with people using only stacks of tier 2, because they at least have to make some automation.
For those saying that using out of mod contraptions to automate, might not have seen last season of forgecraft where dire was using botania to automate botania, and somebody else on the server on up'ed him on this by invisibly automating botania, so that nothing showed but the flowers.
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This is also a source of vexation. Why do i *need* to automate the high tier plants? My Big Reactor - I can automate - or I can manually toss some fuel in every now and then. TE Dynamos? I could hook them up to tesseracts or tree farms, or I could, on demand, toss in a stack of coal. I can manually refuel my IC2 nuke, or toss a stack of lava cells into the geothermal generator. Thaumcraft scales from everything is manual to to automated system that only requires the a right click from the player to initiate a craft.
This provides an easy way for players to grow into the automation of all these mods. Start with a basic manually fueled thing, and progressively add automation.
Botania on the other hand requires plants be fed one item at a time, and my understand is that even at the highest tiers, one fuel item isn't really going to consume that much mana. This leaves players who would or could get deeper into a mod if it had a convenient starting point, somewhat cold to its potential.
Plus - the automation of it all breaks from my immersion in its flowery nature. The mod - by its mechanics - would be far better served by being reskinned as a set of blocks as totems or something. A concussive totem - would be crafted mostly with mana infused obsidian - and capture the energy from nearby TNT. Sun totems - made from wood - would capture mana from light, but require flower petals as a consumable item.
I was using Open block item cannons to launch stacks of charcoal from my ugly charcoal production site to a botania garden 100 blocks away. Sure it's a cross mod interaction but it's a combo that seems made for each other. Vas should add a native method replicating the item cannons function.
While I disagree with the hamfisted nature of the nerf I don't think Chris here has any grounds for his argument. Sounds like he never liked Botania in the first place. What's the extent of his Botania experience?
I mean who plays Botania and DISLIKES concocting intricate feeding mechanisms. However I do agree that it's a little bit discordant with the natury image it has. Of course if you are clever you can get around this.
It's a deceptively themed tech mod, I think Vas has even stated this.
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While I disagree with the hamfisted nature of the nerf I don't think Chris here has any grounds for his argument. Sounds like he never liked Botania in the first place. What's the extent of his Botania experience?
I mean who plays Botania and DISLIKES concocting intricate feeding mechanisms. However I do agree that it's a little bit discordant with the natury image it has. Of course if you are clever you can get around this.
It's a deceptively themed tech mod, I think Vas has even stated this.
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I've played enough of it to have my nature themed build on a server despawn on me after a modpack upgrade.
There's the Spectrolus. Not exactly a cannon, but it does teleport items from its own location to one specified with the wand.
I believe she has, indeed. I once made a fully automated Pure Daisy using little more than some mana spreaders, mana pools, flowers, and redstone. If a system that takes wood and stone from one chest, converts it to livingwood and livingrock, and puts the products into another chest all with absolutely no user intervention isn't tech, I don't know what is.
If you're going after a functional nature-themed build, I suggest you try Witchery. One of its core mechanics requires you to surround your altar with as much and as many different kinds of plants as you can get your hands on, so you'll wind up with much more than a simple garden. And none of the trees or flowers will ever wither away- in fact, a few will spread all over the place if you let them.
I never get into Witchery as I've never seen the payoff, or understood the progression... How does a small investment start making my game easier, such that I can increase my investment over time. Thats the process by which i've gotten into Thaumcraft, Blood Magic, Botania (As far as I have), Thermal Explosion, Big Reactors, Ender IO, Tinkers Construct, Industrial Craft, Applied Energistics etc.
I don't get that with Witchery. I make some mutandis. Get the saplings for the trees. Plant some trees. Go on a building binge making stuff with the unique wood textures. And then... get confused and move to a different mod.
Well you can become a werewolf/vampire now, so there's that
But I agree Witchery does seem a little "pointless", unless you know what the mod can do (which I don't)
Not to mention that if you are playing a mod pack, it is sort of an unspoken rule, that mod interactions for automation are pretty much a free for all... if you use 8 mods to automate 1 thing, who cares? As long as you didn't feel like you had to do it the way you did, and you had free choice, then it's fine.
Modded MC, when it comes to tech mods (almost all "tech"/"magic" mods are tech mods), is all about automating tasks, and in some cases being efficient.
And Botania is one of the nicer mods when it comes to production/automation, as it has a variety of ways, and you can choose what is best for you.
For example, with Thermal Expansion, the "best" method for getting RF, when playing just vanilla + the mod, is the Magmatic Dynamo. However, that is impossible to automate, so your only automatable option, really, is the Steam Dynamo.
Whereas Botania allows you to automate a lot of the flowers when you just play Botania + vanilla, and you have a lot of possible flowers which you can automate to the same degree as the Steam Dynamo. Endoflame is pretty much the same (you just have to add a fuel into a hopper every now and again), Gourmarylls (same as the Endoflame, but instead of fuel, it's food... and if you have a decent mob farm, you have infinite fuel - rotten flesh, heck using this you could say it is 100% automated), Dandelifeon is automatable... doesn't mean it's easy to do so though, and probably others, but they are probably ones I haven't used.
In packs yes - but how would you get infinite lava in just botania+vanilla? I'd be interested to know!!
You can't place lava without another mod in the vanilla+botania combo. Neither botania nor vanilla offer a way to do this, thus the Thermalilly is non-automatable in botania + vanilla. Also there are precious few renewable sources of lava, and most of these are also lossy (they have to be as most these methods could be fueled by lava itself). The 4 I know of are the Blood Magic ritual, the magma cruicble fed with stone or cobblestone (netherrack is more effecient, but it's generally not renewable), the lava fabricator or the cruicble from Ex Niho. I suppose techically you can add Mystcraft ages of lava, as Mystcraft books are 100% renewable even with just mystcraft.
Technically you can. The vanilla dispenser, given a bucket of water or lava, will place the source block in the world. Then however you will have a dispenser with an empty bucket, so it will try pick it up again. So not very useful for the stated purpose Ill grant you.
I didn't think you could, but realised I wasn't 100% sure. The original question was 'why did Vazkii nerf the hydroangea (by introducing withering) and not the the thermalilly'? This seems to be the reason - the thermalilly can't be considered 'passive' in just Botania+Vanilla.
A buildcraft floodgate + thermalillies seems like a thing to build. Not quite the nature-is-green setup I had before.
What about thaumcraft golem tree farm + endoflame ... that's a bit- 'nature-is-green'
Or golem carrot/potato farm + gourmaryllis (spelling)?
A thaumcraft golem tree farm + a munchdew would be even easier than using endoflames. Just ensure your munchdew(s) can't reach all the leaves so you still get some saplings.What about thaumcraft golem tree farm + endoflame ... that's a bit- 'nature-is-green'
Or golem carrot/potato farm + gourmaryllis (spelling)?
Hmm, was thinking about auto-lava in Botania+Vanilla. Okay, no pumping or storage means crafting a bunch of buckets and going and getting lava by hand. But from there, it occurs to me that you could use botania hourglasses to automate from there on. One could fire the dispenser to place the lava, as @Chris Becke mentioned. Put a hopper under the dispenser, with a redstone torch to keep it off most of the time and use another (or maybe the same) hourglass to turn the hopper on again at the appropriate time to reclaim the bucket.
Yes, I have read the topic, thanks.. When I'm speaking about tier 1 flowers, I'm referring directly to the Nightshades and Dayblooms. If you were paying attention to my posts, you would have read that I don't use the Hydros and don't really have an opinion on them.
From what I've learned, if Vazkii wanted to "fix" Hydros, instead of decay, she could have made them consume 2 water source tiles next to each other, thus breaking the "easy automation" that seems to be okay with the lava version. To consume 1 water source allows for Vanilla water mechanics to make it too easy (as I'm being told), so make it consume more than one, to break infinite sources of water. Then you would have to use the same mechanics as you do with the lava.
I would like your opinion on the last part of my previous post though. You seemed to have skipped over my suggestion that it's not necessarily a flower issue, but the use/consumption of the mana they produce.
I uninstalled it because that post from Vazkii cast judgement on my play style. Not everyone using mods wants to delve into redstone or automation. Hell I don't understand redstone beyond basic stuff and I don't care to learn. Its not fun to me. Its why I never helped with Ender Enders or Iron farms when I played vanilla.
Also, shaming people for using passives when they were part of the mod is laughable. Instead of revamping the initial stages of using the mod, the passives get nerfed to hell. I'd have accepted the change if the passives were removed completely and replaced with something new. I accept a dev's right to change their mod. I oppose casting judgement on how I use the mod when I'm only utilizing the content provided that has been that way since initial introduction.
People accepted the need for mana tablets or portable mana storage when certain items didn't use it initially. THAT makes sense. But you don't entice people into delving deeper into your mod by judging their playstyles and nerfing your content to hell. This is a full Steve's Carts style nerf and I'm treating Botania just like that mod. I droppped it from my pack.
Also, shaming people for using passives when they were part of the mod is laughable. Instead of revamping the initial stages of using the mod, the passives get nerfed to hell. I'd have accepted the change if the passives were removed completely and replaced with something new. I accept a dev's right to change their mod. I oppose casting judgement on how I use the mod when I'm only utilizing the content provided that has been that way since initial introduction.
People accepted the need for mana tablets or portable mana storage when certain items didn't use it initially. THAT makes sense. But you don't entice people into delving deeper into your mod by judging their playstyles and nerfing your content to hell. This is a full Steve's Carts style nerf and I'm treating Botania just like that mod. I droppped it from my pack.
Passives needed a drawback but withering was the lazy option.
Even though Vas claims they don't mind Endoflames spammed I don't think that will be a thing for long. Endoflames may one day get its form of withering if people continue to play the mod or it continues to be developed. Endo flames could one day burn out after 32 coal worth of fuel goes throug it.
Passives could have been balanced in a much smarter way. Even though I rubbished Chris'es opinion somewhat, his ideas on balancing hydroangeas was actually pretty smart. I always found it odd that it drank the water from it's own level and not at what you'd consider it's root level. Pair that with needing a open unobstructed sky it severely limits the mana density of the land has.
While it wouldn't stop the dedicated spammer from making 512 strong fields of hyroangeas, reasonable folk who don't want to make more work for themselves will switch to higher tier generation as soon as they can.
Also more early game options for feed mechanic hiding would also prompt use of more complicated mana gen. I don't like how I need to go to the end to do so.
Last time I played I was launching plant food in my mana gardens with open block item cannons. When I got the idea I was like "why isn't everyone doing this?" It's not the simplest way but it is by far the most awesome way. I keep suggesting it but a stand alone Botania version of the item cannon could be beneficial to the mod and would get past a lot of the "no ugly machines in my garden" complaints. Because you could have the ugly machines 50-100 blocks away launching ballistic charcoal/food/colored wool in to my flowers gullet.
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Even though Vas claims they don't mind Endoflames spammed I don't think that will be a thing for long. Endoflames may one day get its form of withering if people continue to play the mod or it continues to be developed. Endo flames could one day burn out after 32 coal worth of fuel goes throug it.
Passives could have been balanced in a much smarter way. Even though I rubbished Chris'es opinion somewhat, his ideas on balancing hydroangeas was actually pretty smart. I always found it odd that it drank the water from it's own level and not at what you'd consider it's root level. Pair that with needing a open unobstructed sky it severely limits the mana density of the land has.
While it wouldn't stop the dedicated spammer from making 512 strong fields of hyroangeas, reasonable folk who don't want to make more work for themselves will switch to higher tier generation as soon as they can.
Also more early game options for feed mechanic hiding would also prompt use of more complicated mana gen. I don't like how I need to go to the end to do so.
Last time I played I was launching plant food in my mana gardens with open block item cannons. When I got the idea I was like "why isn't everyone doing this?" It's not the simplest way but it is by far the most awesome way. I keep suggesting it but a stand alone Botania version of the item cannon could be beneficial to the mod and would get past a lot of the "no ugly machines in my garden" complaints. Because you could have the ugly machines 50-100 blocks away launching ballistic charcoal/food/colored wool in to my flowers gullet.
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