Thaumcraft 4.2 Node Bullying Questions

[netmc]

I've read that the node bullying is where the larger node will consume any smaller node within 5 blocks (4 air spaces in between). I've also read the amount of vis added cannot exceed the highest vis amount of the larger node. Are both these correct?

From the way I understand this, a node with 70 Aer could consume several small Aqua nodes until the Aer node has 70 Aer and 70 Aqua. Is this correct?

So how is the larger node determined? Is the total amount of vis in a naturally occurring node, or the largest single vis value? I've found some naturally occurring nodes in extreme hills biomes that have both a terra and aer bonus to them and their total vis is over 150. I have also found single aspect nodes of up to 120 vis. So with these two hypotheticals, which node would be considered the larger of the two?

I've seen on the FTB reddit that the value for energized nodes are the square root of the aspect vis amount.

My ultimate goal would be to get a node with 100+ of all 6 primals which should create an energized node of 10 for all the aspects, which should power just about anything I need for the foreseeable future. I read a few posts that say node bullying in itself is very slow. If it is extremely slow, I may be better off starting with a node that has several of the aspects already instead of trying to grow a massive node of 100+, and instead settle for one that has 49 or more for a energized node of 7 per aspect. It would take a lot less time to create it, and would produce close to the same power.

Thoughts, suggestions, experiences?

 

[Wraithflay]

Unfortunately there seems to be very limited information on this sort of thing, so I don't have much to offer. Having said all that, I have been using a mediocre pure node as my base node and feeding it weaker nodes. People are correct in that it takes significant amounts of time to get anywhere with it however. To put that in perspective: if I had started that node right from the beginning of the world to the point where I got my Eldritch Revelation (or whatever the final unlock is called), I'd call the node a little over halfway to where I want it. It's GLACIALLY slow in bullying other nodes. I'm honestly unsure how one can reasonably expect to get a meganode for endgame purposes in Thaumcraft, as you can reach that endgame research-wise much earlier than you'll ever get a node to that state. Hopefully someone else knows more of value!

 

[pizzawolf14]

FTB is a bully-free zone. Teaching people how to make nodes bully each other will not be tolerated.

Sorry guys, couldn't resist

 

[netmc]

ok. I guess my first order of business will be to jar a multi-aspect node that has a larger total amount of vis, plus a single high count aspect node and see which way the bullying goes.

FTB is a bully-free zone. Teaching people how to make nodes bully each other will not be tolerated.

Sorry guys, couldn't resist

 

[GreenZombie]

The sum of the vis determines which node is larger.
The closer the nodes the faster the bully process. This is bad.
There are several things that can happen in a bully event. The bully node can recharge an aspect the smaller node has. The bully node can increase the capacity it has in an aspect the smaller node has. The smaller node might be drained a point or it might have its capacity reduced or it might be left alone. The bully node growing is not tied to a loss from the smaller node. The chances are independent.

The chance that a bully node will grow capacity in an aspect is 1/n where n in the bully nodes current capacity in that aspect. So the bully process gets slower and slower. But is not capped.

Also if the bully node drains the any particular vis in the smaller node to zero the small node will start to loose capacity really fast. Then loose that aspect. So its important to not let the small node be drained to zero in any aspect.

A simple way to build a hassle free 'mega' node is to get 9 nodes. Place the 8 smaller nodes in the corners of a 7x7x7 cube. This ensures they cant bully each other. Place the largest node in the center. Each 'tick' it has to choose a node to bully so each small node only has a 1 in 8 chance of being picked. This lets the small nodes recharge and maintain their vis levels avoiding the inevitable destruction a fast drain brings about.

Or you can try and micromanage bullying using node stabilization pedestals. Waste of time.

--
The "capping" behaviour where you can't grow any aspect past the highest aspect happens when growing hungry nodes by throwing stuff at them. If you have a neatly trapped hungry node with a "delivery system" and that hungry node does not have, say, ignis, you can throw an item containing ignis at it and it might get, and then increase, its ignis capacity. You can recharge, and grow, hungry nodes by throwing items containing aspects at them, but the chance of a recharge or growth is very low. Ive fed mine stacks of items without seeing a result so this is not a practical way to get a node that can be force-recharged.

You can of course use a hungry node in the center of a node growth matrix (as above) - hungry nodes do not "consume" other nearby nodes but bully them normally. The bully process will increase the vis capacities normally (i.e. it can increase the capacity of the largest vis)

 

[netmc]

A simple way to build a hassle free 'mega' node is to get 9 nodes. Place the 8 smaller nodes in the corners of a 7x7x7 cube. This ensures they cant bully each other. Place the largest node in the center. Each 'tick' it has to choose a node to bully so each small node only has a 1 in 8 chance of being picked. This lets the small nodes recharge and maintain their vis levels avoiding the inevitable destruction a fast drain brings about.

This sounds like a good way to do so. I guess I'll sit my recharge station in the center to start with while I jar up the rest of nodes.

I take it is probably best to use nodes with primal aspects for this. I think I will end up with a wand recharging room with my compound aspect nodes and a 'mega' node room for growing the node for the power system.

 

[Wraithflay]

The sum of the vis determines which node is larger.
The closer the nodes the faster the bully process. This is bad.
There are several things that can happen in a bully event. The bully node can recharge an aspect the smaller node has. The bully node can increase the capacity it has in an aspect the smaller node has. The smaller node might be drained a point or it might have its capacity reduced or it might be left alone. The bully node growing is not tied to a loss from the smaller node. The chances are independent.

The chance that a bully node will grow capacity in an aspect is 1/n where n in the bully nodes current capacity in that aspect. So the bully process gets slower and slower. But is not capped.

Also if the bully node drains the any particular vis in the smaller node to zero the small node will start to loose capacity really fast. Then loose that aspect. So its important to not let the small node be drained to zero in any aspect.

A simple way to build a hassle free 'mega' node is to get 9 nodes. Place the 8 smaller nodes in the corners of a 7x7x7 cube. This ensures they cant bully each other. Place the largest node in the center. Each 'tick' it has to choose a node to bully so each small node only has a 1 in 8 chance of being picked. This lets the small nodes recharge and maintain their vis levels avoiding the inevitable destruction a fast drain brings about.

Or you can try and micromanage bullying using node stabilization pedestals. Waste of time.

--
The "capping" behaviour where you can't grow any aspect past the highest aspect happens when growing hungry nodes by throwing stuff at them. If you have a neatly trapped hungry node with a "delivery system" and that hungry node does not have, say, ignis, you can throw an item containing ignis at it and it might get, and then increase, its ignis capacity. You can recharge, and grow, hungry nodes by throwing items containing aspects at them, but the chance of a recharge or growth is very low. Ive fed mine stacks of items without seeing a result so this is not a practical way to get a node that can be force-recharged.

You can of course use a hungry node in the center of a node growth matrix (as above) - hungry nodes do not "consume" other nearby nodes but bully them normally. The bully process will increase the vis capacities normally (i.e. it can increase the capacity of the largest vis)

Now that's some useful information. I wonder if a wiki-type person is nearby to get this added to the relevant stuff? Heavens know it seems to be more relevant now that we have our technomagical vis networks these days.

In response to netmc, I finally turned my own node into an energized version and found that any compound aspects get broken down into primal and added into the final calculations for determining your capacity in each primal. Doesn't appear to be possible to have compound aspects in an energized node, based on the behavior I observed. Having said that, it certainly doesn't hurt to have compound aspects in there, but I would probably prioritize primals.

 

[pizzawolf14]

Now that's some useful information. I wonder if a wiki-type person is nearby to get this added to the relevant stuff?

I'm fairly certain anybody can add to the wiki.

 

[GreenZombie]

Its worth pointing out, re hungry nodes, that they can be enclosed in thaumcraft warded glass - which is rather trivial research to get. They also do not disturb tile entities - or at least ive placed mine in a 5x5x5 warded glass cube- with a hole with a thaumcraft grating in the top, with a hopper above that, which allows me to feed the node. So far it hasn't eaten the grating.

---
Also, the 7x7x7 pattern for growing nodes works quite well. When I converted to TC 4.2.1.4 I energized the node I was growing and got a 12CV/t on all aspects energized node out of it.

 

[Inaeo]

I'm just beginning my Thaumcraft experience (this is the first time will be moving away from pure tech mods on our server) so this is an interesting concept. My question on this is regarding two equal nodes: do they bully? Say I have two nodes: Node A has 30 ignus and Node B has 30 terra. If I place them next to each other, what will happen?

 

[netmc]

I'm just beginning my Thaumcraft experience (this is the first time will be moving away from pure tech mods on our server) so this is an interesting concept. My question on this is regarding two equal nodes: do they bully? Say I have two nodes: Node A has 30 ignus and Node B has 30 terra. If I place them next to each other, what will happen?

Hmm. That is a very good hypothetical question that I will leave completely unanswered except to say that I would make sure that doesn't happen. I have successfully had 6 nodes (out of the 8 of a 7x7x7 square) feed a main one without any issues, and allowing the "bullied" nodes to fully recharge themselves. So, if your hypothetical was an actual case, I would place a node stabilizer under the "feeder" node to disable bullying temporarily until you main node bullies another node and reaches 31 aspects, then turn off your node stabilizer to allow it to again participate in the bully process.

 

[Shandraya]

I'm completely new to thaumcraft and really just enjoying a mess about. I have no access to a node stabilser, it isn't visible in the thaumonomicon and I don't know what to do to unlock it, I only have the pedestal and recharch focus. I just decided I would collect a few nodes and see what happens. But..nothing is happening!
I read it can take time so I have let the program run continuously for three days and still nothing. I have a 'terra' 130 with an 'aqua/ignis/perditio' 58 (is that 177 total?) to the block directly left and an 'aqua/ordo' 20 in the block directly above. Not even a spark. Been over a week and the game running constantly for the past three days...still nothing.
Is this normal? surely I should have seen at least a few sparks by now?

 

[GreenZombie]

I'm completely new to thaumcraft and really just enjoying a mess about. I have no access to a node stabilser, it isn't visible in the thaumonomicon and I don't know what to do to unlock it, I only have the pedestal and recharch focus. I just decided I would collect a few nodes and see what happens. But..nothing is happening!
I read it can take time so I have let the program run continuously for three days and still nothing. I have a 'terra' 130 with an 'aqua/ignis/perditio' 58 (is that 177 total?) to the block directly left and an 'aqua/ordo' 20 in the block directly above. Not even a spark. Been over a week and the game running constantly for the past three days...still nothing.
Is this normal? surely I should have seen at least a few sparks by now?

Thats strange. Can you clarify the version of Thaumcraft you are using / the pack its in?

 

[Shandraya]

I'm just using the monster pack which I believe is 4.2 thaumcraft. I'm running it as it comes with no changes to config or anything

 

[rouge_bare]

I believe monster has a version before node bullying. Which also means no Node Stablisers or Transducers.

 

[ChemE]

Two nodes that size directly adjacent to each other would spark every few seconds. My money is with the others above that you do not have a recent enough version to have the node bullying mechanic included.

 

[Inaeo]

I'm just using the monster pack which I believe is 4.2 thaumcraft. I'm running it as it comes with no changes to config or anything

Node bullying was not added until post 1.7.x. There is no Node bullying in the Monster pack, thus no need for the equipment to deal with it.