[TC] Best thing to Deconstruct to get Aqua?

[ThatOneSlowking]

Also, don't scan all the things in one go, as you will get diminished returns when you already have 64 of an aspect. So, once you have an excess of an aspect, as you are saying, you should use that up to make room for more.

Well, that depends on configs...

 

[Azzanine]

Well, that depends on configs...

I think as this is a FTB site we should assume that the FTB configs are going to be the norm people adhere to.

 

[ThatOneSlowking]

I think as this is a FTB site we should assume that the FTB configs are going to be the norm people adhere to.

A LOT of us do not use FTB Configs...
And my point still stands, it depends on configs.

 

[Azzanine]

A LOT of us do not use FTB Configs...
And my point still stands, it depends on configs.

Yeah, true but for the sake of stability and avoiding confusion some assumptions should be made. Because then I could say factually that Gregtech is a cheap easy mod, when you take all the possible config options in to consideration this is both true and false.

 

[ThatOneSlowking]

Yeah, true but for the sake of stability and avoiding confusion some assumptions should be made. Because then I could say factually that Gregtech is a cheap easy mod, when you take all the possible config options in to consideration this is both true and false.

It still depends on configs. Usually people refer to default or FTB configs or whatever modpack, but it does not change the fact it is dependent on configs.

 

[Azzanine]

It still depends on configs. Usually people refer to default or FTB configs or whatever modpack, but it does not change the fact it is dependent on configs.

Of course it doesn't. I agree.

 

[Iluvalar]

How could one think that? The whole post. How? I use the same aspects a lot because I want to waste almost nothing ,and many aspects have only 1 or 2 linked aspects. What then? If you need Metallum because you have one space between saxum and ordo, why avoid using metallum? If you have 1 space between ordo and Vintium, why avoid using Praecantio? If you want to link Humanus and Metallum, why avoid doing it in two aspects and going for more then two?

And how can one NOT know what aspects to use and fall back on old tricks, if one has a list of all aspects and what they are made of at your disposal? IN GAME no less!

Ther is never only 1 space between aspects. The is hundreds of solutions. I'm just saying even if you have a list, people tend to stop at the first solution they find. As you get better in that research minigame, you tend to be able to use what you have in excess instead of going throught the few path you master most. For instance, in my first game, I went through motus a lot.

You need to grasp that if you have 3 time as much metalum (because of all TE machines) then water, then metalum is actualy 3 time cheaper for you even if it's made up of several aspects. Research aspects can't be broken that way, so excess aspects are lost.

So yes going ordo > instrumentum > telum > perditio > vintum can be a valid solution and can be more efficient the ordo > praecantio > vintum if you have to rebuild a praecantio from the deconstruction table. You would run around all day trying to spot a new magical thing with your thaumometer, while i would simply craft a cobblestone sword, scan it and keep moving.

As you get better at that research game and as you become able to use more efficiently all aspects, the need for the deconstruction table just desapear.

 

[Azzanine]

Ther is never only 1 space between aspects. The is hundreds of solutions. I'm just saying even if you have a list, people tend to stop at the first solution they find. As you get better in that research minigame, you tend to be able to use what you have in excess instead of going throught the few path you master most. For instance, in my first game, I went through motus a lot.

You need to grasp that if you have 3 time as much metalum (because of all TE machines) then water, then metalum is actualy 3 time cheaper for you even if it's made up of several aspects. Research aspects can't be broken that way, so excess aspects are lost.

So yes going ordo > instrumentum > telum > perditio > vintum can be a valid solution and can be more efficient the ordo > praecantio > vintum if you have to rebuild a praecantio from the deconstruction table. You would run around all day trying to spot a new magical thing with your thaumometer, while i would simply craft a cobblestone sword, scan it and keep moving.

As you get better at that research game and as you become able to use more efficiently all aspects, the need for the deconstruction table just desapear.

I wouldn't say never, but you are right about the many solutions thing.
Also efficiency also means using the resources you can afford to use. If you have 5 ordo and 50 metallum and a bazillion terra you use the metalum and terra even if it means more links need to be made.

 

[ThatOneSlowking]

Ther is never only 1 space between aspects. The is hundreds of solutions. I'm just saying even if you have a list, people tend to stop at the first solution they find. As you get better in that research minigame, you tend to be able to use what you have in excess instead of going throught the few path you master most. For instance, in my first game, I went through motus a lot.

You need to grasp that if you have 3 time as much metalum (because of all TE machines) then water, then metalum is actualy 3 time cheaper for you even if it's made up of several aspects. Research aspects can't be broken that way, so excess aspects are lost.

So yes going ordo > instrumentum > telum > perditio > vintum can be a valid solution and can be more efficient the ordo > praecantio > vintum if you have to rebuild a praecantio from the deconstruction table. You would run around all day trying to spot a new magical thing with your thaumometer, while i would simply craft a cobblestone sword, scan it and keep moving.

As you get better at that research game and as you become able to use more efficiently all aspects, the need for the deconstruction table just desapear.

There is one soace between aspects in the primal wandcap research

 

[YX33A]

There is one soace between aspects in the primal wandcap research

I wouldn't say never, but you are right about the many solutions thing.
Also efficiency also means using the resources you can afford to use. If you have 5 ordo and 50 metallum and a bazillion terra you use the metalum and terra even if it means more links need to be made.

Ther is never only 1 space between aspects. The is hundreds of solutions. I'm just saying even if you have a list, people tend to stop at the first solution they find. As you get better in that research minigame, you tend to be able to use what you have in excess instead of going throught the few path you master most. For instance, in my first game, I went through motus a lot.

You need to grasp that if you have 3 time as much metalum (because of all TE machines) then water, then metalum is actualy 3 time cheaper for you even if it's made up of several aspects. Research aspects can't be broken that way, so excess aspects are lost.

So yes going ordo > instrumentum > telum > perditio > vintum can be a valid solution and can be more efficient the ordo > praecantio > vintum if you have to rebuild a praecantio from the deconstruction table. You would run around all day trying to spot a new magical thing with your thaumometer, while i would simply craft a cobblestone sword, scan it and keep moving.

As you get better at that research game and as you become able to use more efficiently all aspects, the need for the deconstruction table just desapear.

If I can afford to use something else and it will do, I'll do that. If I'm drowning in an aspect I rarely use, I don't use that aspect. I make better aspects with it.
And the thing that you seem to be forgetting @Iluvalar is that one rarely has only two aspects to link. If one has to combine, say, 5 aspects, one MUST make every aspect choice the best fit, because the grid is a fixed size, but your aspects are not limited. If I can afford to use my million metallum instead of a more rare aspect, I do. But I don't just take into account how much I have, in fact, I don't. I take into account what fits the puzzle best. And like I said, Praecantio is a great aspect, not because it connects to a lot of things, but because few things allow for such a short bridge between aspect chains as it does.

Hence why I was always pissed when ThatOneSlowking said one has no use for Ignis, because if one has no use for Ignis, they are done all their research now.

 

[ThatOneSlowking]

If I can afford to use something else and it will do, I'll do that. If I'm drowning in an aspect I rarely use, I don't use that aspect. I make better aspects with it.
And the thing that you seem to be forgetting @Iluvalar is that one rarely has only two aspects to link. If one has to combine, say, 5 aspects, one MUST make every aspect choice the best fit, because the grid is a fixed size, but your aspects are not limited. If I can afford to use my million metallum instead of a more rare aspect, I do. But I don't just take into account how much I have, in fact, I don't. I take into account what fits the puzzle best. And like I said, Praecantio is a great aspect, not because it connects to a lot of things, but because few things allow for such a short bridge between aspect chains as it does.

Hence why I was always pissed when ThatOneSlowking said one has no use for Ignis, because if one has no use for Ignis, they are done all their research now.

I still use all other aspects more than ignis but that may be because that it 5/6 aspects instead of focusing on 1/6 xD

 

[YX33A]

I still use all other aspects more than ignis but that may be because that it 5/6 aspects instead of focusing on 1/6 xD

Yes, true. Ignis does play a very small role in the end. I use a LOT of Praecantio, and not because I use it often, but because when I do use it, it's because nothing else really will work as well as it.

The research on Normal is annoying because it is so dependent on the Victus chain. But easy isn't much better, then I have no challenge aside from getting aspects.(and when has that been hard?)

 

[Eruantien]

I use Forbidden Magic, so ignis has a bit of a larger role to play there in connecting praecantatio to aer and such.

Otherwise, ignis is good for linking potentia to terra and... that's about it. D=

 

[YX33A]

I use Forbidden Magic, so ignis has a bit of a larger role to play there in connecting praecantatio to aer and such.

Otherwise, ignis is good for linking potentia to terra and... that's about it. D=

Primal aspect jumps are a big deal, though. And if you can do it without breaking the chain down to Primals, then back up from there, only a fool wouldn't do that.

 

[Eruantien]

Primal aspect jumps are a big deal, though. And if you can do it without breaking the chain down to Primals, then back up from there, only a fool wouldn't do that.

Ordo: Gelum -> Aqua; Metallum -> Saxum -> Terra --> Victus -> Aqua; Motus -> Aer; Potentia -> Ignis; Granum -> Victus -> Terra; Granum -> Victus -> Mortuus -> Perditio; Instrumentum -> Telum -> Perditio
Perditio: Telum -> Instrumentum -> Ordo; Vacuos -> Aer --> Arbor -> Herba -> Terra --> Victus -> Aqua; Vacuos -> Aer --> Lux -> Ignis
Aer: Arbor -> Herba -> Terra --> Victus -> Aqua; Motus -> Ordo; Lux -> Ignis; Vacuos -> Perditio
Aqua: Gelum -> Ordo --> Potentia -> Ignis; Victus -> Terra --> Saxum -> Metallum -> Potentia -> Ignis; Permutatio -> Motus -> Aer; Victus -> Mortuus -> Perditio
Ignis: Lux -> Aer --> Arbor -> Herba -> Terra; Potentia -> Ordo --> Gelum -> Aqua; Potentia -> Ordo --> Metallum -> Saxum -> Terra; Lux -> Aer --> Vacuos -> Perditio
Terra: Victus -> Aqua; Saxum -> Metallum -> Ordo --> Potentia -> Ignis -> Lux -> Aer; Herba -> Arbor -> Aer --> Vacuos -> Perditio

I've probably missed some simpler, shorter methods...

 

[YX33A]

Ordo: Gelum -> Aqua; Metallum -> Saxum -> Terra --> Victus -> Aqua; Motus -> Aer; Potentia -> Ignis; Granum -> Victus -> Terra; Granum -> Victus -> Mortuus -> Perditio; Instrumentum -> Telum -> Perditio
Perditio: Telum -> Instrumentum -> Ordo; Vacuos -> Aer --> Arbor -> Herba -> Terra --> Victus -> Aqua; Vacuos -> Aer --> Lux -> Ignis
Aer: Arbor -> Herba -> Terra --> Victus -> Aqua; Motus -> Ordo; Lux -> Ignis; Vacuos -> Perditio
Aqua: Gelum -> Ordo --> Potentia -> Ignis; Victus -> Terra --> Saxum -> Metallum -> Potentia -> Ignis; Permutatio -> Motus -> Aer; Victus -> Mortuus -> Perditio
Ignis: Lux -> Aer --> Arbor -> Herba -> Terra; Potentia -> Ordo --> Gelum -> Aqua; Potentia -> Ordo --> Metallum -> Saxum -> Terra; Lux -> Aer --> Vacuos -> Perditio
Terra: Victus -> Aqua; Saxum -> Metallum -> Ordo --> Potentia -> Ignis -> Lux -> Aer; Herba -> Arbor -> Aer --> Vacuos -> Perditio

I've probably missed some simpler, shorter methods...

Godsend. You know that's what that is, right? I mean, I kinda know them mostly by heart, but those chains are a godsend. There they are, folks. The aspect chains for TC(and no addons). Simple and effective.

 

[Eruantien]

Just gimme a sec, I'm gonna find a way to make this look pretty.

 

[Eruantien]

Spoiler

...
...
...
...FAIL.
It's late, okay? Don't be too judgmental. I might fix it up tomorrow; you get the gist, though. =(

 

[YX33A]

Just snowballing here, but MS Paint, the crop tool, and a HELL of a lot of screen shots, is all one needs to show these aspect chains. And maybe a second image for chains of note and how to make them.

That there is freaking amazing, though. Unless you intend to add more to it(or maybe maybe the symbols a bit prettier or add names near them in some way), I'd suggest doing that for the few addons that have new aspects. That's two addons of note, and one of potental interest.

EDIT: That said, Praecantio makes a wonderful link between Ordo and Aer or Ignis.

 

[Eruantien]

Thanks! GIMP is better than paint, though.
I'm planning (somewhat ambitiously) for a complete picture of each aspect's combinations. Maybe geometrically inclined, maybe linear... I'm not sure yet.
Tending toward linear... it would be easier to show the chains.
I will be adding in the MB and FM aspects, too. Maybe I'll add labels, although it shouldn't be necessary.