Should ftb be... harder?

[russjr08]

The problem is, not everyone sees things the same way. Its a sandbox game, everyone will have their own opinions on how things should be 'balanced', for me something being harder != more tedious.

For instance, I believed EE2 to be VERY cheaty and would not touch that mod except for the philosopher's stone for the portable crafting table. However I think EE3 is LESS cheaty. Some of the recipes are very convenient for me. I like to play on peaceful a lot so the only way for me to get enderpearls is with it. I liked the old ASP recipes without the irridant glass, others like the new one a lot better.

The key is to play Minecraft the way YOU want to play it, don't worry about others. My friend used to use the EE2 bone meal / blaze rod exploit all the time. I didn't worry about him though (unless he tried to give me like a block of diamond or something..), I let him have his fun, because it WAS fun to him. He loved to automate exploits XD

 

[namiasdf]

The problem is, not everyone sees things the same way. Its a sandbox game, everyone will have their own opinions on how things should be 'balanced', for me something being harder != more tedious.

For instance, I believed EE2 to be VERY cheaty and would not touch that mod except for the philosopher's stone for the portable crafting table. However I think EE3 is LESS cheaty. Some of the recipes are very convenient for me. I like to play on peaceful a lot so the only way for me to get enderpearls is with it. I liked the old ASP recipes without the irridant glass, others like the new one a lot better.

The key is to play Minecraft the way YOU want to play it, don't worry about others.

Also, there are too many counterpoints to every point made anyways. It's almost approaching philosophy, in that the arguments cannot go anywhere, due to the sandboxing nature of MC or even further FTB.

Though regardless, people will have their opinions and voice them. That's what these forums are for, otherwise it would get very boring in here. Having a nice argument allows you to develop as a player, as so long as you don't become ignorant and stupid.

 

[Daemonblue]

if he does view them as an exploit, then i can understand why his balancing is so fucked up. that guy simply doesnt know what exploit means...

Just felt like a quick reply to this part. Greg felt that is was an exploit for fortune and smelting from TC to work on potatoes. I just felt that needed to be said to gain a bit of perspective.

 

[egor66]

damn it I said I was not going to reply but, but, oh never mind.

 

[DoctorOr]

Just felt like a quick reply to this part. Greg felt that is was an exploit for fortune and smelting from TC to work on potatoes. I just felt that needed to be said to gain a bit of perspective.

Just because you think the output of a dupe is inconsequential does not mean there is no dupe.

 

[egor66]

Doc that debates still rages as to who is really at fault & that wall of text a certain person posted in the updates channel made him look immature at best, I know your a die hard Greg fan but really come on, that channel is for important update info not personal rants.

 

[namiasdf]

People take FTB personally.

Heh.

 

[Bigglesworth]

No FTB even with GT hardmore are easy.

If you want the game to be hard, have it set to

1. Hard at all times
2. Regen from food off
3. Golden Apples need ingots
4. Nerf potions
5. Reduce diamond/other endgame things spawn to 10-20%
6. Turn off stupid crap like soulshards and gravisuit and vajra
7. Nerf things like jetpack or make them much harder to get

blah blah

If you really want fun FTB you can go BukkitForge and start tweaking alot more. Make things harder to get and make getting them dangerous. All mobs should pose a real danger. If they don't youre not longer in an adventure/survival, youre in convoluted creative mode.

 

[Daemonblue]

Just because you think the output of a dupe is inconsequential does not mean there is no dupe.

Greg thinks Fortune should only work on ores, mDiyo disagrees but added an option to remove fortune and auto-smelting from working together. The only duping was with GT's smelting recipes where you could smelt a metal block (or any other metal thing Greg added smelting recipes for) and get more ingots that it costs. The rest is simply a disagreement between the two on how fortune works. I agree with mDiyo that fortune should not be limited to ores.

The main point is auto-smelt and fortune are as much an "exploit" as the forge lexicon from omnitools. Problems only arise when recipes and equivalencies are added that shouldn't be made.

 

[casilleroatr]

Didn't a thread get locked for people getting heated up the Greg, Mdiyo thing. This has been one of the better balance related threads so maybe this is not the place to bring it up. Sorry for minimodding I know its a bit pretentious but this thread is quite good

 

[Daemonblue]

Probably, probably not, it was more to show people the perspective of the mod author in regards to his changes moreso than to debate crossmod exploits.

That said, It's started to get harder for me to support GT the more time passes with some of the more recent changes. I like the idea of the mod in general, but the implementation is a bit lackluster recently.

 

[egor66]

Greg thinks Fortune should only work on ores, mDiyo disagrees but added an option to remove fortune and auto-smelting from working together. The only duping was with GT's smelting recipes where you could smelt a metal block (or any other metal thing Greg added smelting recipes for) and get more ingots that it costs. The rest is simply a disagreement between the two on how fortune works. I agree with mDiyo that fortune should not be limited to ores.

You are not alone there, & before any one starts with its not like in real life you can break a steal or iron block down with out machine, this is minecraft, I for one do not spend my free punching trees, pumping lava or any of the many other thing we do in this game as normal.

As to hard mode most all the servers I have played on have been hard mode, with in most cases hard modes of the mods that have an option in config, its a little more challenging & hence more fun at start, after a day or two it makes no difference.

 

[Daemonblue]

You are not alone there, & before any one starts with its not like in real life you can break a steal or iron block down with out machine, this if minecraft, I for one do not spend my free punching trees, pumping lava or any of the many other thing we do in this game as normal.

It's not even the requiring a machine part since it would work perfectly fine with just his maceration/pulverization recipes. Personally I would think him forcing you to pulverize it first for dust and then melting it in a furnace would be more Greggy then having the option to either furnace it or pulverize it. Also, I have yet to see those matches he said he was going to add...

 

[Enigmius1]

I think that people start seeing FTB and this or that mod/mod pack as being "too easy" because they keep comparing it to vanilla MC. It makes more sense to look at the in-game systems for what they are and then decide what you can do with them that suits your notion of challenge than it is to compare what they are to something else under the assumption something is wrong. I just spent the last two days with several hours per day trying to figure out why my CC/scripts weren't working properly and it came down to one word in the wrong place. I've spent similar amounts of time trying to diagnose other problems with other systems, or planning large systems to accommodate large systems with I made with resources obtained from "OP" mining machines. There's no shortage of challenge in FTB mod packs, you just have to stop thinking in terms of vanilla MC and go find it.

 

[Watchful11]

I'll just chime in here. We do spend a bit of attention on balance. We didn't add the dirt to diamonds mod.

But as people pointed out, there are way too many opinions out there to hope to find something even half the people consider balanced. If you want to customize your experience, either in ssp or for a server you run, there are many options for balancing things, but you have to do it to your tastes.

 

[DoctorOr]

Greg thinks Fortune should only work on ores

Actually, he thinks pickaxes should only work on ores & stone. Shovels on dirt. Axes on wood.

Since that's vanilla standard, it's a reasonable position. Since that's vanilla standard, breaking it to the detriment of the wider-mod-ecosystem would be the one in error.

 

[Daemonblue]

Since we're now back on topic, as was said before, you have to set a long term goal with several short term goals on the way. For example, a long term goal would be, say, getting a full DSU of octuple compressed cobblestone which would be something like 86 billion cobblestone or something. Now do that without using igneous extruders. Other goals include building a flying fortress that's impenetrable using warded stone and glass. Make a fortress that covers a 50x50 chunk area. Make a railway network that encompasses over 100 kilometers. Make a wither skeleton spawner and then try to fight 100 skeletons with just swords.

Edit: Last I checked that's still the same with TC. I think the only issue there would be when there was (and in the current stable version is) a bug where you could do some pretty wonky thinks such as what that one person posted - he used a logging axe with auto-smelt and fortune on a log and it gathered a ton of dirt. In the dev version he made it so for a hammer to break a block it has to have the same or lower hardness, so you can't place cobble on top of obsidian and break the obsidian like the current stable version.

 

[Riuga]

I honestly don't think this game will be any easier if IC2 adds 2 stacks of charcoal -> 1 diamond (which would be scientifically possible IRL)

 

[DoctorOr]

Edit: Last I checked that's still the same with TC.

Clearly you're wrong, as "Block of Chrome" is not an ore.

 

[Daemonblue]

You can do 1 stack of coal > diamond, but charcoal would be a bit too easy. Tree farms are already super fast and seeing as EE3 has a method for turning I believe it was 4 stacks of logs into 1 diamond it would be kinda redundant.

Neither is a furnace but you need a pickaxe to pick it up. The block of chrome is a metal so using a pickaxe on it to break it isn't that farfetched either.