Redstone Energy Conduits

[namiasdf]

Do they work like cable? i.e. If attached to a REC, will it draw power, only and only if something requests power? Wooden conductive piping has a habit of outputting energy automatically when attached to a REC. This means any non-continuous system is liable to explosions (due to the conductive piping filling up).

I'll have to concede that I cannot continue with my conductive piping only usage. It's served me well up until now, but am approaching it's limitations. (Gate set to redstone signal on if x happens to turn off REC is really inconvenient.)

 

[sks0315]

It has output/input mode. If you wrench conduit, it will look orange and arrow will be facing outwards indicating that it is pulling out energy.

And REC is smart enough not to output energy unless there is a need.
In 1.5, conductive pipe got huge buff(no more loop, exploding, spilling power)

 

[Golrith]

Conduits will only send power as it's needed. Much more easier to work with then conductive pipes, but at a greater resource cost.

 

[namiasdf]

Greater energy loss as well. For smaller, compact set ups, if you can manage with gate logic, golden conductive piping offers some pretty good returns.

 

[SpitefulFox]

Greater energy loss as well. For smaller, compact set ups, if you can manage with gate logic, golden conductive piping offers some pretty good returns.

According to the 2.4.5.0 changelog, conduits are lossless now.

 

[Golrith]

Considering virtually all energy sources are infinite, the 5% loss is irrelevant and costs less then the material and energy resources needed to be able to make gates.

 

[namiasdf]

Using gates to control RECs is why I am considering conduits. I've found ways around using REC up until now. My next project is a bit too... Inconsistent to go without RECs.[DOUBLEPOST=1374571984][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, do conduits interact with conductive piping?

 

[Omicron]

According to the 2.4.5.0 changelog, conduits are lossless now.

And so are Buildcraft conductive pipes. That TE update was just a response to Buildcraft itself going completely lossless. However, many MJ-accepting machines now have an idle power draw (and I expect that more will update to that model with 1.6). Meaning, if your machines are doing work around the clock, you now have zero energy loss, but if they sit idle 95% of the time, you will have a gigantic amount of energy being wasted (easily ten to twenty times what you're used to) unless you regulate the energy distribution with levers and/or gates. And it doesn't matter whether you use conduits or conductive pipes, so better get used to doing that!

(Alternatively of course you could set up your power generation to constantly run, but any energy source that's not an infinite loop will obviously not work for that.)

 

[sks0315]

My goodness...

Conduit
Pros
No loss in distance(5%for output connection)
Infinite capacity
Doesn't spill energy
Doesn't explode
Cons
Expensive
No facade :-(
No variants

Conductive pipe
Pros
Absolutely no loss(1.5)
No exploding/spilling(1.5)
Many variants.
Facade :-D
Cheap
Cons
Limited capacity
MFR and powerconverter can't output to it :-(

Facts about REC
It doesn't output energy if not nessacery regardless of conduit or conductive pipe. Attaching wooden conductive pipe will NOT waste your energy.

 

[namiasdf]

Well I tend to build continuous systems so I don't have to worry about that. Conductive piping is bad for providing power from a central source to many different modules, since turning off the power to one module means stopping the REC via redstone signal. It means you need a REC dedicated to each process, which can be a pain. (You can't make use of parallel wiring as well unless you intend to stop/start all processes at the same time, but that's too restricted for my tastes.) **

I think for more localized MJ generation into a REC (i.e. some modulated engine set-up that's redundantly buildable), using conductive piping would be best. Then to draw non-regular sets of energy from the RECs, use RECs.

Seriously. REC Cell? REC Conduit? How we distinguishing mang.

** Important for me because I use combustion engines which. requiring two inputs. One of which is vital to being explosion-proof.

 

[Golrith]

"REC" usually refers to the Cell, "Conduit" for the Redstone Energy Conduits.

 

[Omicron]

(*snip*)

Conduit
Pros
No loss in distance(5%for output connection)
Infinite capacity

(*snip*)

Facts about REC
It doesn't output energy if not nessacery regardless of conduit or conductive pipe. Attaching wooden conductive pipe will NOT waste your energy.

Not quite...

Conduits are lossless now, period. They have always had zero loss over distance; in the past they simply had a one-time 5% loss for energy entering a conduit network. This has been removed as well.
Conduits do not have infinite capacity, they have infinite throughput (because the energy is teleported from producer to consumer, it doesn't actually travel). Note however that the capacity limit is set to such a value that no engine in Minecraft and no machine in Minecraft is able to come near it (1000 MJ per tick burst input and output for an individual block of conduit).

Also, a redstone energy cell has no intelligence. It will output until there is no more storage to output to. Conduits (the network as a whole) and conductive pipes (each individual wooden pipe) have buffer storage that can fill up and make the energy cell stop outputting energy. But that's not a testament to intelligent behavior by the redstone cell, but rather the simple fact that you can't insert any more energy into where there is no room for it. As soon as there is room again, energy will resume flowing from the cell.

 

[namiasdf]

Well, they're both strong tools. Both have strengths and weaknesses and can be used in combined systems with synergy. Conduits for moving energy, conductive piping for controlling it.

i.e. [source + conductive piping] -> [rec + conduits] -> [output]. I dunno, I don't think I'll be dropping conductive piping anytime soon. Gates are just too versatile a means for systems control. I guess having a magma crucible dedicated to redstone on my AE network is a must. Would I always export redstone to the crucible, then interface the liquid transposer for the conduits/cells?

As the number of projects I've complete grows, so does my to do list. Feature of FTB, eh?

 

[SpitefulFox]

And so are Buildcraft conductive pipes. That TE update was just a response to Buildcraft itself going completely lossless. However, many MJ-accepting machines now have an idle power draw (and I expect that more will update to that model with 1.6). Meaning, if your machines are doing work around the clock, you now have zero energy loss, but if they sit idle 95% of the time, you will have a gigantic amount of energy being wasted (easily ten to twenty times what you're used to) unless you regulate the energy distribution with levers and/or gates. And it doesn't matter whether you use conduits or conductive pipes, so better get used to doing that!

That sounds terrible! Why would they do that?! May as well go back to just using engines and conductive pipes if machines are going to just keep sucking on your conduit network for no reason. >:/

 

[namiasdf]

I wouldn't mind if my conduits are getting continuously sucked ;D

edit: For no raisen

 

[Omicron]

That sounds terrible! Why would they do that?! May as well go back to just using engines and conductive pipes if machines are going to just keep sucking on your conduit network for no reason. >:/

That's exactly what I told CovertJaguar.

His responses were "if you're not running your engines around the clock you're doing it wrong" and "MJ was never supposed to be an energy system where you count every unit like in Industrialcraft". Apparently that is the vision he's going for. Valid points, if he wants to go in that direction, but I don't like it either =/

It's a bit frustrating really. Blutricity was a brilliant system but is dead because Redpower is dead; Universal Electricity is a neat concept but the mods building on it are so unbalanced (in both directions) it makes EE seem a good goal to aim for; Industrialcraft is only relevant nowadays because of GregTech, and that one's very much a "love it or leave it" deal; and MJ is heading in a direction that makes it disgusting to manage, while at the same time heavily fragmenting its addon base (a lot of them haven't converted yet), meaning you just about never get a consistent playing experience, and need to treat every machine differently. I'm not really a happy camper right now.

 

[namiasdf]

Well, the envisioning of MJ by this Jagermeister dude is kinda how you should be envisioning MJ. He meant for it to be like HP. It's like steam engines, only steam should lose heat the long. you have it and transporting it long distances in uninsulated pipe should have effects on its ability to do work.

I always saw MJ as kinetic energy/HP and EU as electricity/volts/amps/ohmmmmms. There is no real way to transfer kinetic energy unless it's through pneumatic or hydraulic means. It's why I have been resistive in my usage of RECs, but it is seemingly impractical to do such a thing now, considering the scale of projects I wish to embark on.

I guess he's just trying to distinguish the MJ from the EU. Technically the way we produce MJ vs. the ways we produce EU would satisfy this raisen de terre auju.

 

[SpitefulFox]

That's exactly what I told CovertJaguar.
His responses were "if you're not running your engines around the clock you're doing it wrong" and "MJ was never supposed to be an energy system where you count every unit like in Industrialcraft". Apparently that is the vision he's going for. Valid points, if he wants to go in that direction, but I don't like it either =/.

So, is it just CovertJaguar going for this? I have a hard time seeing KingLemming changing all his machines to suddenly invalidate the purpose of energy conduits. No idea about base BC or Forestry. If push comes to shove, I can just keep the "energy wasters" on a separate network than the other machines. I already keep my rolling machine manually disconnected when it's not in use.

 

[namiasdf]

Well a 5% efficiency gain in return for continuous energy drain is supposed to put emphasis on continuous systems. Which means sustainability, efficiency and expansion of your system becomes a lot more difficult to achieve. It also means the design of your factory is extremely important.

Building something that is static, non-expandable and inefficient. Well, as an engineering student I can tell you... Bad things, bad things.

 

[SpitefulFox]

Well a 5% efficiency gain in return for continuous energy drain is supposed to put emphasis on continuous systems. Which means sustainability, efficiency and expansion of your system becomes a lot more difficult to achieve. It also means the design of your factory is extremely important.

Building something that is static, non-expandable and inefficient. Well, as an engineering student I can tell you... Bad things, bad things.

I don't build pulverizers and sawmills to be constantly running. I don't expect to be in the mines or running a quarry 24/7. I don't want to build an automatic tree farm or go woodcutting constantly just to get my money's worth. A lot of TE machines are extremely situational, so I see zero reason why they should all just waste power to punish you for not using them 24/7. Hell, the Rolling Machine is an incredibly niche machine considering that we're apparently supposed to be powering it at all times.