C
chbachman
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*opens 50 more issues*
Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread
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*opens 50 more issues*
For one, some people already have Factorization in their packs, making it rather useful to them. As well, that's why I was recommending adding it to Forge - so we could do it without needing a mod installed.
C
chbachman
Guest
Too many issues with in-world config editing. There are already a lot of issues with in-game config editing.
Hell theres more issues getting people to use the goddamn thing than anything else >.> Along with that is many users don't even know its there....
(Seriously if you're a dev and you see this and haven't implemented it GO DO IT NOW! Its all part of forge. If you're a user TELL DEVS YOU WANT IT then use the hell out of it!)
It removes tons of guess work out of config editing if done properly too so theres that. (P.S. Devs that means LESS ISSUES)
Oh also if you have a core mod you can put all your configs to be edited under your core mod!
All of this is done in D3Core and if you want to look at how its done go here. (How many times do i need to point out all these useful features?)
I know it's there, and I bet a lot of other people do to, but I much prefer editing configs in text files.
They're simple and clean, and there's no clumsy buttons in the way. I also know when I edit a value, the value is definitely edited, there's nothing between me and that config option, its changed, full stop, it didn't glitch out or freeze up or anything random, I set the value and done. Then there's the fact that I'd never trust an in-game config option to work properly without a restart, It's an unknown with in-game configs, and even if the config editor were to tell you when it required a restart, It would never be trustworthy enough when it doesn't tell you, whereas a text file is always yes - restart minecraft to take effect.
That's why I don't use the in-game config editor thing. I can't imagine what kinds of bugs the in-world config editor might be inviting...
In short, I know that it is always safer to edit game configs outside of the game, not inside it while it's running. This rule serves me well in lots of places. Initialisation work should be done when initialising, not redone midgame, it invites problems.
So every game you play you edit your settings with a text editor?
I respect your opinion and such but it seems a bit over the top as there many more issues that can happen when editing things via text editors than with the GUI config and its used in almost every game made its proven to work well.
Its also not any different than the vanilla options available witch with mods have the same probability of crashing or causing unintended effects.
This.
Config != Options menu
Generally mods fall into the 'config' category, since lots of the config settings in modded minecraft usually require re-initialisation of some sort which is just easier and safer to do by restarting the game, rather than hacking some way around it while the game is running. Or, and this is my favourite part, making modders have to write extra code and perhaps even change the way their config settings work, to enable the game to change those config settings while running, especially since there's an easy alternative, the text configs, which are tried and true.
While this might make me sound like an ass,
Most problems from text file configs are from people inputting incorrect values, and you can refer to the "stupid things people say about modded mc" thread for a generous list of reasons why modders aren't responsible for people misunderstanding, or not bothering to read, simple instructions. I'd rather not inundate mod developers with work 'stupid proofing' configs, let them work on the fun stuff!. If someone doesn't understand how a config works, they can:
1 - ask (nicely),
2 - experiment, and learn from screwups, don't complain about them,
3 - or just leave it alone.
I'm one of those people who's almost sad it's so easy to setup modded minecraft these days, it's lowered the intelligence bar for entry and now there are tons of instances of sheer ignorance in the "I need help" department. If people don't know how to setup or edit configs, they shouldn't be running a server. If they don't know how to add or remove mods from a pack, they shouldn't be using mods at all...
If they're willing to learn however, then sure, let them knock themselves out. Sadly, most want to be spoon-fed.
Why should the mod developers bear the burden of making things easier to setup and edit, when everytime they do, they just get flamed with more ignorance, and especially since the current way of doing so isn't hard at all for anyone willing to listen and learn for five minutes (or less!).
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On the topic of the GUI config editor, I am currently messing with configs for the first time. And for the life of me I can't get the in game version to even show the options. But, as you said, leave the devs to do the fun stuff.
I am sure I speak for a lot of devs when I say "I hate doing configs" not because they are hard, but because they are boring. Ok, ok, you don't like the way I make a mod, fine I'll adds config for it, doesn't mean I am happy about it... When a dev envisages a mod, they don't want people to change that idea. For example I spend an hour learning how to do potion effects on armour, and getting it to work, then you ask for the potion effects to be removed... That's an hour of work which is wasted, and although it is still there in a config, it's sorta disheartening to know that some players will disable the stuff you added.
As for people being too lazy with mod packs, I fully agree. But you missed out one thing, people who say just edit <mod pack>. I see people asking quite regularly "how do I make a mod pack?" And people replying "Just edit the direwolf20 pack"
There are so many reasons why that is nope worthy but I'll keep my mouth shut. It's just wrong, we'll leave it at that.
It's not a complete config editor. It only edits the relatively minor safe things. (I.E. nothing that would effect server side things.) Though mod devs will have to decide what is "safe". So expect explosions.
You can mark which changes require a MC restart. Its up to the devs to implement it properly.
You need to have a valid mcmod.info in your resources, otherwise the button won't show up, then you need to add the "guiFactory" element to your @mod annotation. That is about it.
If you want examples of mods using it, you can look at (almost) all of our mods here, or at the coremod of the guy who made it.
I have it all implemented and I believe it works, but it just doesn't show options for the configs I have setup at the minute (all the stuff is pre-init only - disabling/enabling gameregistry)
Yeah, but it's not an issue, as I wouldn't trust am in-game config to enable/disable blocks/items in game
If a mod author takes the time to present a config GUI screen, a vote of no confidence in that screen is also a vote of no confidence in the author. Are you sure you want their mod in your game?
Some mods also edit their own configs with chat commands.
That's not really how it works.
That's like saying you wouldn't have any confidence in Azanor if he started making TE add-ons (or something), because that's not "his area".
You can have full confidence in an author, but not their work.
For example, I have full confidence in the author of chisel to make Xycraft a working mod for 1.7.10, but I have no confidence in the fact that Xycraft won't be as laggy as it was in 1.4.
Same goes for configs. You're a mod dev, you know this. When configs load, they are loaded in the preinit stages... Which means any changes made to configs are registered while the game loads, and for config changes to take effect properly a game restart is needed. And THAT is why I don't trust in game config editors. Unless it is a keybinding/graphics setting, configs shouldn't be edited in game... especially if the user is, for lack of a better word, an idiot. If someone was to load their game with (lets say) tinkers copper spawning, and they didn't want that. They open up the GUI, disable copper ore... what that does it remove copper ore from the game registry... now that is fine when you aren't in game, you load the world it gives you the error (<blocks> missing) BUT imagine how badly it would corrupt the world if someone did that in game, accidentally maybe.
In this case I was equating an author with their work (if you don't trust their config code, why would you trust any of their other code? Do you assume they just never test that part?)
There are a lot of things that can't be edited at runtime (block and item registrations are the most obvious). A properly implemented config will mark those items as require-server-restart and will yell at you loudly to restart the game or nothing will change. Same for softer settings changes that only require the world to be re-loaded.
There are a lot of things that can't be edited at runtime (block and item registrations are the most obvious). A properly implemented config will mark those items as require-server-restart and will yell at you loudly to restart the game or nothing will change. Same for softer settings changes that only require the world to be re-loaded.
Anyone who is interested in implementing config GUIs into their own mod may want to take a look at this: Code Snippets/Classes
Most of the mods I saw that implement config GUIs were doing it wrong, as in they were just exposing the General category, so you're unable to edit anything that's not in the General category.
I indeed flagged many options with "requires a Minecraft restart" because of the reasons mentioned above. But it can sometimes be more convenient to edit configs ingame, and the editor can do basic range and validity checks.
It's not hard to implement, that's why I have it in my mod.
Most of the mods I saw that implement config GUIs were doing it wrong, as in they were just exposing the General category, so you're unable to edit anything that's not in the General category.
I indeed flagged many options with "requires a Minecraft restart" because of the reasons mentioned above. But it can sometimes be more convenient to edit configs ingame, and the editor can do basic range and validity checks.
It's not hard to implement, that's why I have it in my mod.
Just my own two cents here, but wouldn't it be a good idea to create some sort of GUI that can be launched external to Minecraft that could edit the configs? That way, the configs could be changed before the game is loaded at all, and thus could take effect as soon as the game is launched--BUT by being in a GUI, it wouldn't be as intimidating as file browsing and text configs to the common user.
If you find those files intimidating you probably shouldn't mess with them. And a GUI wouldn't help much. But it would be nice to see a 3rd party program with such a function.
There is a free program called notepad++ that is helpful in making the configs a bit easier to swallow. I'd recommended trying that. The default notepad or normal text editor holds you back much more than you might think. And this is the program that many of the configs were written on in the first place. So it really helps a lot. It won't make you into a code saint/god but it will help.