[ReactorCraft] Fission Reactor Simulator!

[yuyuyzl]

Oh i'm....surprised to see Reika himself lol, thank you for reading and testing this.
Thanks for your advise and commitment, in fact i have thought about this, and i agree with your idea that MINECRAFT SHOULD HAVE MORE THINKING THAN COPYING. Your idea is just the same as mine, so i wrote a simulator to simplify the way to test, let me to test my idea quicker.
In fact i'm an OP of a server, and i faced the same stupid questions you mentioned all day. We have to admit that there's some people playing this game just want to have "fun", or excitement, from upgrading their generators, but never think about to create their own reactors or anything... just copy a "best" way from the internet. There's one thing i must say, WE CANNOT, AND DON'T NEED TO, FORCE ANYONE TO THINK. I'm doing my best to create a space that we can share and discuss and test for us, and i don't care those gamers who plays without thinking. So, maybe you thought too much...just let them go, it's fine.

 

[yuyuyzl]

(and maybe i should add a page called "README" shown while the calculation is running...)

 

[Reika]

WE CANNOT, AND DON'T NEED TO, FORCE ANYONE TO THINK.

I disagree; I largely succeed at forcing it - at least if one wants anything out of the mods - and most cases where I fail to do so are because someone else did the thinking for them. Also, seeing as thinking/learning is both the main balance and grief protection for RotaryCraft, yes, it is absolutely crucial.

 

[Pyure]

I disagree; I largely succeed at forcing it - at least if one wants anything out of the mods - and most cases where I fail to do so are because someone else did the thinking for them. Also, seeing as thinking/learning is both the main balance and grief protection for RotaryCraft, yes, it is absolutely crucial.

You'll hopefully agree that this is fundamentally a traditional (and constant) Reika-specific concern one doesn't really encounter elsewhere. Having someone do your thinking for you is a legitimate way to play modded minecraft, even when you and I think its a bit of a silly waste of time.

 

[Lethosos]

I actually don't mind thinking. Heck, turn off Thermal Foundation in immiblis' BR simulator, and you're forced to find more interesting solutions to optimal reactor plans. I have one that requires a buttload of platinum to work as I want it, and that alone is a challenge to gather.

Sent from my Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron using Tapatalk 2

 

[Azzanine]

I disagree; I largely succeed at forcing it - at least if one wants anything out of the mods - and most cases where I fail to do so are because someone else did the thinking for them. Also, seeing as thinking/learning is both the main balance and grief protection for RotaryCraft, yes, it is absolutely crucial.

You aren't successful at all in that endevor. None can be forced to think, human ignorance is way stronger then human curiosity.

You don't so much force thinking as you provide opportunities to think. As you well know your mod has a staunch but very niche audience, those that do the thinking did so on their own accord. Players of your mods already like to think, they need to think.

Those who are not built for your mods will do as they do now and avoid them possibly deriding them out of hand.

Also balanceing games/ mods around a skill/ knowledge never works in this digital information age. This calculator exemplifies this.
You can't control this without controlling information, which nobody should have the power to do.



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[Reika]

You aren't successful at all in that endevor. None can be forced to think, human ignorance is way stronger then human curiosity.

Then let me refine that statement. In the absence of someone else having done the thinking prior, I succeed in forcing the player to either think for themselves, suffer the consequences of not thinking things through, or abandon hope of meaningfully using the mods.

And yes, I do want to exclude literally everyone not interested in doing their own thinking. If I could somehow restrict the mods' accessibility to such people, I would.

You'll hopefully agree that this is fundamentally a traditional (and constant) Reika-specific concern one doesn't really encounter elsewhere.

Entirely agreed, but we are talking about ReactorCraft.

 

[Plasmasnake]

Reika is the only person that I know who gets concerned when there is a chance that less people will blow up parts of their world due to failing at a nuclear reactor. You crazy purple dragon

As for the concerns, I find them mostly unfounded: they ignore just how much prerequisite knowledge and infrastructure is needed to even build the blocks and fuel necessary for a reactor. It is gated behind bedrock, a.k.a the very end of RotaryCraft. No lazy player will get that far and Reika has already shown that he will not cave in and make the mod less demanding/easier. The comparison to big reactors is kind of laughable because BR just requires easily obtainable raw materials and little know-how and those reactors and turbine do not explode by default. Reika is massively over-simplifying ReactorCraft. A good fuel to power ratio isn't the definition of the perfect reactor; you need to consider safety, fuel production, waste removal, location, perhaps redstone and controls, and even more if you are creative. All this tool really does is remove the enormous time waste that is playing around in creative mode and testing that a design works and won't devastate your world.

Another random point - I have a set design that is my go-to for all the types of reactors. I created it myself and very rarely deviate from them in my worlds. I haven't had to redesign in a very long time. Is this a bad thing?

Additionally, from what I infer from Yuyuyzl, he may be willing to work with you as you update or maybe he is just really quick about updating his information. I get that you are scared/concerned about the potential hate from idiots... but remember that these people are in fact idiots and are not worth the stress or your time. They are getting inside you and winning, Reika. Is this what you want? I fear you are making decisions based upon the negative influence of 'those people' and not based upon what you feel would be best for the mod personally.

 

[Someone Else 37]

One question: I like to design reactors with a gazillion control rods built in, so that I can shut it down if it starts overheating or if I just don't need to power and don't want to waste the fuel. Would it be feasible to add blocks for raised/lowered control rods, or at least point out some existing blocks that act the same way?

Also, I'm using a laptop touchpad at the moment and clicking on each individual cell to set it is rather annoying. The BR simulator lets me click and drag to set a whole line of blocks at once, which would be just as handy to have in your simulator. Of course, I could just grab my mouse, but meh.

Finally, is there any utility in adding a way to see how much neutrons are escaping from the reactor, and from where?

 

[yuyuyzl]

One question: I like to design reactors with a gazillion control rods built in, so that I can shut it down if it starts overheating or if I just don't need to power and don't want to waste the fuel. Would it be feasible to add blocks for raised/lowered control rods, or at least point out some existing blocks that act the same way?

Also, I'm using a laptop touchpad at the moment and clicking on each individual cell to set it is rather annoying. The BR simulator lets me click and drag to set a whole line of blocks at once, which would be just as handy to have in your simulator. Of course, I could just grab my mouse, but meh.

Finally, is there any utility in adding a way to see how much neutrons are escaping from the reactor, and from where?

great advice, added in the todo list
oh but, the reactor controller block(whatever the name) has an initial tempreature sensor that SCRAM when over some tempreature,but unfortunately if that block gets that high temp, the core is usually unrecoverable, they will explode immediately, well i mean it's too late to put down the control rod.
so i prefer design a safer reactor to prevent explosion ranther than using tons of control rods. as for shut the reactor down, i will remove the fuel itself...
but still trying to add these blocks lol thx again

 

[yuyuyzl]

Also, I'm using a laptop touchpad at the moment and clicking on each individual cell to set it is rather annoying. The BR simulator lets me click and drag to set a whole line of blocks at once, which would be just as handy to have in your simulator. Of course, I could just grab my mouse, but meh.

Finally, is there any utility in adding a way to see how much neutrons are escaping from the reactor, and from where?

UPDATED 16/2/24, feel free to drag some fuel rod and explode them in the table! AND, evaluate the power of your atomic bomb by seeing how many neutrons escaped!

Done , now i know that you need drag and draw support because you are building a concrete wall lol, but unfortunately my simulator only calculate 16 steps for each neutron(if not absorbed) and then destroy them, and these neutron is what i'm counting. well maybe i'll do some fix to my code to change the magic number 16 according to the world itself...

 

[Someone Else 37]

UPDATED 16/2/24, feel free to drag some fuel rod and explode them in the table! AND, evaluate the power of your atomic bomb by seeing how many neutrons escaped!

Done , now i know that you need drag and draw support because you are building a concrete wall lol, but unfortunately my simulator only calculate 16 steps for each neutron(if not absorbed) and then destroy them, and these neutron is what i'm counting. well maybe i'll do some fix to my code to change the magic number 16 according to the world itself...

Cool! Always satisfying when a suggestion gets implemented in less than 24 hours.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

I can certainly understand Reika's concerns, but I also feel the overall usefulness of this programme- so it'll be absolutely brilliant if we could work though a fair compromise that'll keep ReC users thinking and designing, whilst maintaining a more convenient design tool than a disposable test world.

Could we have (in rather large letters) what ReC version number this iteration of the simulator corresponds to? (would nip a few of the bug reports, and cut down on end users' confusion)
Removing the share design link would help with the copy-paste issue, giving a bigger focus on designing for oneself.
​

but remember that these people are in fact idiots and are not worth the stress or your time.

As past events have unfortunately proven; some idiots have a rather loud voice, or ways of making themselves heard. On some occasions can be worthwhile to address the problem at the source before a rumour gains momentum.
(this is not limited to Reika's work (or even MC for that matter)- a fair few individuals get a rough time due to this effect)
Reading over this thread; your inference with Yuyuyzl working with Reika seems fairly solid- better to work as a team than shut it down only to have someone who really doesn't care crawl out the woodwork with their own sim.

 

[Plasmasnake]

\
As past events have unfortunately proven; some idiots have a rather loud voice, or ways of making themselves heard. On some occasions can be worthwhile to address the problem at the source before a rumour gains momentum.
(this is not limited to Reika's work (or even MC for that matter)- a fair few individuals get a rough time due to this effect)
Reading over this thread; your inference with Yuyuyzl working with Reika seems fairly solid- better to work as a team than shut it down only to have someone who really doesn't care crawl out the woodwork with their own sim.

This is not a mod that makes all the machines require RF, nor is it some sort of petition to replace Reika as the creator of the mod. It is a utility that simulates a ReactorCraft fission reactor.

Am I the odd one here? I don't see this tool being as malicious as you make it out to be.

 

[Reika]

Removing the share design link would help with the copy-paste issue, giving a bigger focus on designing for oneself.

That would do little, as they could still share an image of the reactor design.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

I never stated that I saw this tool as malicious. I certainly hope I didn't imply it either- as that was never my intention.
Regarding the section of my post you quoted;
The first half is simply a fair statement that sometimes its better to deal with a problem user than ignore them- because some problems get worse if you leave them unattended.
The second half came with the implication that shutting down this project may cause a malicious user to come up with their own version. Such a version would be far more likely to cause tech support headaches than the current iteration.

That would do little, as they could still share an image of the reactor design.

Not overly different to in-world screenshots.

 

[Reika]

Not overly different to in-world screenshots.

This is true, but it only proves further that the share link is not a large problem in and of itself.

My biggest concern is still the possibility of computerized optimization.

...How possible would it be to add some sort of a "HTTP request cooldown" (around 500-1000 ms between design checks, probably)? That alone could make such algorithms infeasibly slow.

Also, I just found a major disconnect between ingame and simulation reactor behavior.

 

[yuyuyzl]

Well, first i'd like to THANK YOU ALL for discussing under my post to keep it up..,

My biggest concern is still the possibility of computerized optimization.

...How possible would it be to add some sort of a "HTTP request cooldown" (around 500-1000 ms between design checks, probably)? That alone could make such algorithms infeasibly slow.

your concern is, well, not going to be true. there is some thing i should point out to show the major difference between your reactor and the BR mod, and why you do not need to concern about this.

1. according to your fission and breeder reactor code, the ratio from the fuel to the energy output is fixed because you set the fuel-consuming process and the temperature raising process in the same place, and all other things is fixed as a number in the code, even nothing changed according to the temperature itself. Which means, if you are not going to change the fuel itself, the only way to increase efficiency is to use less steam boiler to prevent heat loss. So in fact the efficiency here is only a number. I'm sure you know your code better than me, so, maybe your concern will happen in the new Thorium reactor because its chance is more reliable than the block itself? hoping to see that earlier in the next update.

2. your design is totally based on random, which means the explosion is a question of chance. it may happen in seconds, but it may also happen one week later. An example for this problem is:
http://yuyuyzl.github.io/ReactorCra...1230002222222220000030000030000000000000000_1
the reactor above has very high steam output, and seems to be safe by running for 6 hours in the superflat. but when i put it into the server, it exploded and destroyed a floor of my building, after 3 days.
http://yuyuyzl.github.io/ReactorCra...0202020202000000300000003000000000000000000_1
This is another time-bomb reactor, designed by my friend DPurple. This is nearly a masterpiece, but it exploded after one and a half weeks. his turbine is located just above the reactor, so that explosion stopped his way to the fusion reactor. Then he closed the game, and started to write the first java version simulator, the prototype of mine. Later he told me that he can put some water blocks before the neutrons touch the reflector, and that would prevent the reactor from melting down. He is right.
The conclusion may be ridiculous, but i must tell you, it is hard to tell whether a reactor is dangerous before hours of running, even in the simulator. Hmm, behind it you will see the laggy calculation make it impossible to search for a "best" reactor, in a considerable time.
P.S.: there's no http request here because all the calculation is done by your own computer, and it will run for a long time. The server send only the JS code to you. Wondering whether you had really used my simulator.

And, i don't think it's a good idea to close the share service. As you see above, I share my reactors to discuss it with you and that creates more thinking between us. I put the "real" player's need at the first place, as for those copycats, maybe this will also give them an inspiration? well, maybe that is also a good thing, so, be positive Reika. Focus on your great MODs, we are all supporting you.

Thanks for reading.

 

[yuyuyzl]

To do next:
Add some pages as a text and image tutorial to explain all the details in the fission reactors and the breeders. Will be more detailed than those wikis. ummmmmmmm....maybe
Going to sleep now.....

 

[yuyuyzl]

I like this, it is much faster to test designs. I would like to see simulators for breeders and pebble beds, if that wouldn't be too much to ask.

hey your breeder simulator is done, have a look and have fun.