RC Steam Engines

[namiasdf]

So I was playing around with these toys the other day and noticed a peculiar behaviour when turned on and off, as to simulate an "on-demand" system. (1.4.7)

When activating several steam engines simultaneously, all attached to the same output line, the steam engines would not hit their maximum MJ rating. This was the case for four industrial steam engines being fed by a single, powered liquiduct connection. 40 steam/t per engine and 160 mb/t per powered liquiduct, the math seems to work out.

Next I tried starting one at a time, as to allow one to reach its maximum of 8 MJ/t rating, then activate the next one, so on so forth. This allowed me to achieve the maximum MJ rating of each engine, utilizing their full potential. Then the next problem arose. When turning them off then back on, the same problem persisted. They simply would not max out on their MJ rating, despite being able to do so when started in a sequential manner.

Is this a function of the steam engine? Are they supposed to be turned on and never turned off? It seems really weird to me that this would occur, considering the throughput is mathematically correct.

Another experiment allowed me to create an on-demand system that maximizes the MJ potential, at the cost of doubling the liquidict connections to each engine. If I simple attached two connection to each engine, while maintaining the single powered output, I was able to reach 8 MJ/t.

Any ideas as to why? The first situation should work and the second one should be redundantly unnecessary, but it seems that the only way to achieve an on-demand (i.e. dynamically active) system using steam engines is through the last case stated in this thread.

 

[Omicron]

Are you sure you're not simply seeing the full 8 MJ/t on the engines because there's excess steam in the internal bffers from switching them on slowly one by one? It sounds like you simply don't have enough steam incoming through the liquiduct.

I've never had a problem providing steam engines with enough steam via single connections to each engine, so long as there was enough input from the boiler.

 

[namiasdf]

It was definitely four industrial steam engines being powered by one output from an iron tank. I was able to achieve 8 MJ/t per engine if I started them up sequentially, but they stalled at around 5 MJ/t when started simultaneously. I left them for about 5 minutes to see if anything changed and nothing did.

I was hoping there was a reason, but maybe it has something to do with creative vs. survival as unlikely as that sounds. I'll have to play around with it a bit more, but it's throwing a wrench into my base plans, coming up with engine designs and all. If I need two connections per engine, I have a decent design for dynamic systems, but I was just wondering if I was missing something.

Oh well, pics to come!

 

[Zealstarwind]

I'm no expert on it but I've been keeping 18 engines fed off one HP boiler 3x4x3, they all max once fully heated and I'm not so sure on it but I'd say LP isn't what you're looking for. Steel is pretty easy to get any reasoning on the design? is space at a premium?

 

[namiasdf]

Oh no, it isn't a problem of 36 HP vs 12 LP and stuff like that, it's just an issue of trying to integrate some form of control into my steam management system. Right now I have a mixture of statically and dynamically active systems which requires me to have various strategies in deal with how to manage them.

For the dynamic systems, the engines are subject to frequent changes in state (on/off) and exhibit behaviours that do not follow the conventions that their supposed programming shows. It's more of a problem that they aren't doing what is expected and I'm trying to resolve that problem.

A max sized 36 HP steam boiler can indeed power 18 industrial steam engines. I have quite a few solutions as to how to divert the steam to different parts of my base as its needed as well. The reason why I need to divert steam is because boilers themselves cannot have a dynamic state. Once they're turned on they must stay on, else you risk serious inefficiencies. There are parts of my base that do not require continuous steam, so I would like to allow that steam to go elsewhere (i.e. energy dump) during the times when that steam is not needed in my other systems. This would require (a) the engines to function as to how I think they should and (b) various throughput controls.

 

[Zealstarwind]

Ah, have you tried a battery station? I'm not sure how feasable it can be but instead of turning off the power divert it to that station, aka allow it to reroute the power. Personally this is my first real foray into steam power as I always go the magmatic route but I'm starting to see what all the fuss is about. Tho I recently had to deal with engines that didn't seem to want to send their power to the tesseract properly so it was causing my quarry to stall..

I'd say a good enough battery station would beable to keep that charge and allow you to use them for their portability when you need power for certain builds but cant maintain a full power grid.

My thoughts are if the system bugs out, find a system that doesn't. Perhaps keeping the engines running to power batteries that can be shifted out for empty ones might be a better solution then just turning them on and off. Sorry if I haven't helped since I'm not the best authority I just see you could route the excess power elsewhere instead of just messing with the engines that run them.

 

[KingTriaxx]

Connect more liquiducts to the boiler. That'll increase the steam flow and let them reach the maximum speed, and do it faster. Liquiducts don't have a maximum throughput capacity, but boilers only output so much steam. One connection per block of the boiler.

 

[Zealstarwind]

I've actually copied DW20's design in his latest season 5 SMP so was kinda curious when it wasn't working as intended.

 

[MigukNamja]

I, too, get strange (inconsistent) results from boilers into Industrial Steam Engines depending upon when I start them up. They do indeed seem more prone to never being supplied with full steam if started all at once and always fill with steam and stay filled with steam if they are stagger-started. They may be some max/ceiling logic or hystereris going on when the system is spiked with a sudden demand of steam. Indeed, the engines seems to 'pulse' and while the average steam of demand of, for example 18 Ind. Steam Engines per 36HP, is perfectly matched for the long-term, the code may not behave quite the same if all engines are started up at the same time and demand steam at the same time.

I don't have access to the code - just conjecturing here.

I've also noticed I get better results when I attach the engines directly to the boiler rather than going through pipes. A compact setup I like to use is leaving a gap of 2 or 3 spaces between each 36HP, directly attaching the engines to the boilders, and sharing or side-by-side running Redstone Enery Conduit. I put 6 engines on 3 of the 4 sides and leave the 4th side blank so I can easily click/monitor the tank. But, attaching the engines directly to the boiler won't work for you - they will always consume steam but the purpose of your build is to turn consumption on/off.

As for a workaround for this, can steam be piped into a liquid storage tank, ex. Railcraft Iron Tank or Steel Tank, for storage ? Buffering the steam may be a viable solution to your dynamic steam consumer system.

BTW, very cool idea and a nice take on the usual "just build moar boilers" that most (including me) route people usually take. Dynamic steam consumption appeals to the engineer in me

 

[Zealstarwind]

Steam power appeals to the steampunk fan in me... now only if we could use steam in more applications then power..

 

[WTFFFS]

Steam power appeals to the steampunk fan in me... now only if we could use steam in more applications then power..

You can cook with it, the steam oven is actually not too bad at all quite fast and does 9 at a time for a large amount of steam sure but meh steam is fairly cheap.

 

[MigukNamja]

In the latest RailCraft, CovertJaguar has added a steam trap that damages/kills monsters with steam. The visual is awesome. I haven't build a monster farm since vanilla MC, but CovertJaguar's steam trap looks sweeet !

 

[loboca]

It was definitely four industrial steam engines being powered by one output from an iron tank.

Hmm, I don't remember but is there a flow limit on iron/steel tank valves? You might need more than one valve to get enough steam into the liquiducts (like you need more than one liquiduct on the side of a steam boiler to get all of the steam out of it).

Of course that doesn't address the dual liquiduct issue, but it's a place to start..