Quick question about Arboretums

[namiasdf]

I used to want to stay on one world permanently, but I've found that modded MC gets really boring, really quick. Due to the fact that I can design systems to perfection, in terms of efficiency, etc. it makes it really easy for me to achieve a point where I don't find a point in playing anymore.

Modpacks like AS, MF2, Unleashed, and Monster have all lasted maybe a little over a month. Finally BnB has enough forced progression that it remains interesting. Though, I am at the point of food autonomy, so the rest is just not dying to explosive gases.

 

[TomeWyrm]

-snip-
My big gripe with the MultiFarms is the apatite requirement. Also it's like Sengir made them bigger and require more resources Because Sengir Felt Like It. There are seemingly no benefits to the change, just drawbacks.
-snip-

Spoken like someone who has never actually bothered using the Multifarms.
My big gripe is that understanding how to construct a Multifarm shouldn't require looking it up online when I'm playing in game.

Well, considering it only spawns at y60+, it requires a completely different mining strategy that doesn't get me anything that I actually care about besides apatite, in areas I don't usually go to mine (hills and mountains), and the very fact that I COULD run out bugs me. The farms flat-out REQUIRE fertilizer to run. No other farming method does that. NONE. Every other one is content to let vanilla plants do what they want to, and most give you an OPTION to speed growth with a fertilizer. Forestry REQUIRES it and I haven't run actual side-by-side speed tests since the change to multifarms because I saw the tube requirements, size, automation requirements, fertilizer, and circuit board stuff and went "LAWLNOPE" moved to MFR and Steves Carts, and now Thaumcraft, Pneumaticraft, Blood Magic, computercraft, or one of the other half dozen or more mods that have farming mechanics. Because they ALL work without forcing me to go mine a hill somewhere for upkeep.

I do realize that a stack of fertilizer lasts like a month, or a week, or some rather ludicrous real-life time. That's not the point. The point is that if I'm automating something as basic and integral as a tree farm or wheat farm, or well... anything else. Speaking of, if it's not vanilla or extending vanilla? Forestry doesn't like it. One saving grace is that it's good with trees. It's one of the few mods that automatically handles Force Trees for instance without using an indiscriminate item collection method... which are most of them, so... yeah. Half point Forestry? Sorry for the tangent there, point is that if I'm automating a core system for basic resources such as wood or power? I don't want to have to maintain it. EVER. If I have to think about it for any reason, it was poorly designed in my eyes. There are systems where I tolerate, even like the maintenance aspect. There are ways around most of them. Even apatite... which involves either mining (and storing, or otherwise utilizing) a VAST amount more cobble, dirt, and coal (though there are other mods that do the above 60 thing... some exclusive even! Usually because a modpack author has done this themselves. Like some Metallurgy ores in ResonantRise), or voiding it. Which I do not like doing. Period. Call it a neurosis, call it OCD, call it whatever you like; I find the voiding of byproducts to be abhorrent. This includes Recyclers and AE Singularities, or any other mechanic that means "I get a bit of use out of voiding my X".

If Apatite was found at a reasonable level? I would grumble a bit and something else would be my biggest gripe... there are a lot of them I have about the change to forestry's farming. Heck the lack of the tight farm loops I used to do with peat bogs, autocrafting tables, arboretums, and... um... something else to create all the dirt, sand, ash/compost(mulch?) fertilizer, power, and such that I needed. That's a good system in my eyes. Give me the ability to make is self-sustaining and endless looping. THEN it's well designed. Because part of the reason I get into modded minecraft is so that I don't have to go chop down a forest when I want to build a mansion or a dock or a boat. I use mods to generally reduce things that I find tedious, explore new ways of doing things (occasionally), and then get into being creative somehow. Sometimes it's a pretty build. Sometimes it's a megaproject. Other times it might simply be a self-set engineering or gameplay challenge. But having to punch/chop trees or worry (Even slightly) about my apatite supply? These are annoyances and tediums that I simply do not want.

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I used to want to stay on one world permanently, but I've found that modded MC gets really boring, really quick. Due to the fact that I can design systems to perfection, in terms of efficiency, etc. it makes it really easy for me to achieve a point where I don't find a point in playing anymore.

Modpacks like AS, MF2, Unleashed, and Monster have all lasted maybe a little over a month. Finally BnB has enough forced progression that it remains interesting. Though, I am at the point of food autonomy, so the rest is just not dying to explosive gases.

The final bit of my response to YX33A touched on your exact problem. Try building big projects, or pretty projects, or doing things in a new way. "Progression" in MC tends to be pretty shallow, pretty easy to brute-force, and buried behind some form of time gate that if you get infinite resources, you can ignore. Mods like Rotarycraft (and even Gregtech) are much better about this, as are mods like Thaumcraft. But honestly? If you're playing tech mods to "hit end game" you're GOING to be either bored quickly, or get annoyed at the tedium required to NOT make it quick. Minecraft's biggest strengths are the procedurally generated "infinite" nature, and open-ended sandbox gameplay that lets you pretty much build whatever you want. You basically need to create your own challenges, or you're almost guaranteed to get horribly bored.

 

[DriftinFool]

Well, considering it only spawns at y60+, it requires a completely different mining strategy that doesn't get me anything that I actually care about besides apatite, in areas I don't usually go to mine (hills and mountains), and the very fact that I COULD run out bugs me. The farms flat-out REQUIRE fertilizer to run. No other farming method does that. NONE. Every other one is content to let vanilla plants do what they want to, and most give you an OPTION to speed growth with a fertilizer. Forestry REQUIRES it and I haven't run actual side-by-side speed tests since the change to multifarms because I saw the tube requirements, size, automation requirements, fertilizer, and circuit board stuff and went "LAWLNOPE" moved to MFR and Steves Carts, and now Thaumcraft, Pneumaticraft, Blood Magic, computercraft, or one of the other half dozen or more mods that have farming mechanics. Because they ALL work without forcing me to go mine a hill somewhere for upkeep.

I do realize that a stack of fertilizer lasts like a month, or a week, or some rather ludicrous real-life time. That's not the point. The point is that if I'm automating something as basic and integral as a tree farm or wheat farm, or well... anything else. Speaking of, if it's not vanilla or extending vanilla? Forestry doesn't like it. One saving grace is that it's good with trees. It's one of the few mods that automatically handles Force Trees for instance without using an indiscriminate item collection method... which are most of them, so... yeah. Half point Forestry? Sorry for the tangent there, point is that if I'm automating a core system for basic resources such as wood or power? I don't want to have to maintain it. EVER. If I have to think about it for any reason, it was poorly designed in my eyes. There are systems where I tolerate, even like the maintenance aspect. There are ways around most of them. Even apatite... which involves either mining (and storing, or otherwise utilizing) a VAST amount more cobble, dirt, and coal (though there are other mods that do the above 60 thing... some exclusive even! Usually because a modpack author has done this themselves. Like some Metallurgy ores in ResonantRise), or voiding it. Which I do not like doing. Period. Call it a neurosis, call it OCD, call it whatever you like; I find the voiding of byproducts to be abhorrent. This includes Recyclers and AE Singularities, or any other mechanic that means "I get a bit of use out of voiding my X".

If Apatite was found at a reasonable level? I would grumble a bit and something else would be my biggest gripe... there are a lot of them I have about the change to forestry's farming. Heck the lack of the tight farm loops I used to do with peat bogs, autocrafting tables, arboretums, and... um... something else to create all the dirt, sand, ash/compost(mulch?) fertilizer, power, and such that I needed. That's a good system in my eyes. Give me the ability to make is self-sustaining and endless looping. THEN it's well designed. Because part of the reason I get into modded minecraft is so that I don't have to go chop down a forest when I want to build a mansion or a dock or a boat. I use mods to generally reduce things that I find tedious, explore new ways of doing things (occasionally), and then get into being creative somehow. Sometimes it's a pretty build. Sometimes it's a megaproject. Other times it might simply be a self-set engineering or gameplay challenge. But having to punch/chop trees or worry (Even slightly) about my apatite supply? These are annoyances and tediums that I simply do not want.

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I kind of agree about the apatite, but in practice, I never ran out in a single world. I usually had a barrel half full or better from exploring before I ever even set them up. I do love their function and style. The best auto farm I think I ever had was 4 max size multifarms with a Rotarycraft fertilizer in the center of them. It was ridiculous how much stuff it made.I do like the earlier implementations better that were self sustaining like you mentioned. MFR and RoC are what I use for farming now since fertilizer or bone meal are a lot easier to sustain. If Forestry would allow something other than apatite, I would add it back to my pack.

 

[YX33A]

Well, considering it only spawns at y60+, it requires a completely different mining strategy that doesn't get me anything that I actually care about besides apatite, in areas I don't usually go to mine (hills and mountains), and the very fact that I COULD run out bugs me. The farms flat-out REQUIRE fertilizer to run. No other farming method does that. NONE. Every other one is content to let vanilla plants do what they want to, and most give you an OPTION to speed growth with a fertilizer. Forestry REQUIRES it and I haven't run actual side-by-side speed tests since the change to multifarms because I saw the tube requirements, size, automation requirements, fertilizer, and circuit board stuff and went "LAWLNOPE" moved to MFR and Steves Carts, and now Thaumcraft, Pneumaticraft, Blood Magic, computercraft, or one of the other half dozen or more mods that have farming mechanics. Because they ALL work without forcing me to go mine a hill somewhere for upkeep.

I do realize that a stack of fertilizer lasts like a month, or a week, or some rather ludicrous real-life time. That's not the point. The point is that if I'm automating something as basic and integral as a tree farm or wheat farm, or well... anything else. Speaking of, if it's not vanilla or extending vanilla? Forestry doesn't like it. One saving grace is that it's good with trees. It's one of the few mods that automatically handles Force Trees for instance without using an indiscriminate item collection method... which are most of them, so... yeah. Half point Forestry? Sorry for the tangent there, point is that if I'm automating a core system for basic resources such as wood or power? I don't want to have to maintain it. EVER. If I have to think about it for any reason, it was poorly designed in my eyes. There are systems where I tolerate, even like the maintenance aspect. There are ways around most of them. Even apatite... which involves either mining (and storing, or otherwise utilizing) a VAST amount more cobble, dirt, and coal (though there are other mods that do the above 60 thing... some exclusive even! Usually because a modpack author has done this themselves. Like some Metallurgy ores in ResonantRise), or voiding it. Which I do not like doing. Period. Call it a neurosis, call it OCD, call it whatever you like; I find the voiding of byproducts to be abhorrent. This includes Recyclers and AE Singularities, or any other mechanic that means "I get a bit of use out of voiding my X".

If Apatite was found at a reasonable level? I would grumble a bit and something else would be my biggest gripe... there are a lot of them I have about the change to forestry's farming. Heck the lack of the tight farm loops I used to do with peat bogs, autocrafting tables, arboretums, and... um... something else to create all the dirt, sand, ash/compost(mulch?) fertilizer, power, and such that I needed. That's a good system in my eyes. Give me the ability to make is self-sustaining and endless looping. THEN it's well designed. Because part of the reason I get into modded minecraft is so that I don't have to go chop down a forest when I want to build a mansion or a dock or a boat. I use mods to generally reduce things that I find tedious, explore new ways of doing things (occasionally), and then get into being creative somehow. Sometimes it's a pretty build. Sometimes it's a megaproject. Other times it might simply be a self-set engineering or gameplay challenge. But having to punch/chop trees or worry (Even slightly) about my apatite supply? These are annoyances and tediums that I simply do not want.

==========



The final bit of my response to YX33A touched on your exact problem. Try building big projects, or pretty projects, or doing things in a new way. "Progression" in MC tends to be pretty shallow, pretty easy to brute-force, and buried behind some form of time gate that if you get infinite resources, you can ignore. Mods like Rotarycraft (and even Gregtech) are much better about this, as are mods like Thaumcraft. But honestly? If you're playing tech mods to "hit end game" you're GOING to be either bored quickly, or get annoyed at the tedium required to NOT make it quick. Minecraft's biggest strengths are the procedurally generated "infinite" nature, and open-ended sandbox gameplay that lets you pretty much build whatever you want. You basically need to create your own challenges, or you're almost guaranteed to get horribly bored.

Sweet jesus, my post you replied to was over a month ago. Seems to me if Apatite was found at a reasonable level you'd still have a chip on your shoulder. If your default mining style can't get you apatite, well, maybe you ought to try mixing things up a bit. I enjoy the ore scramble style from Metallurgy, if it can spawn in a certain dimension it can spawn at any valid location.

If you can't stand the idea that you might run out of it, well, guess you never have use BC Oil/Fuel either. Or Coal. Or Uranium.

 

[rhn]

Or you could simply use the Saltpeter/Niter alternative recipe for Fertilizer available in many packs if you are really that bothered about Apatite...

Niter is infinitely renewable as you can Pulverize Sandstone into sand and get it 15% of the time as a byproduct. (Infinitely by cobblegen, pulverise into sand, craft into sandstone, pulverize into sand/Niter).

Or you could stop being lazy and breed Apatine bees

 

[TomeWyrm]

Man I really need to check my alerts more often... no idea how I missed this one for almost two weeks.

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I only ever use BC fuel (oil is never used because GODS is that a waste not refining it) long-term when it's being supplied by bees. I'll use non-renewables for one-off projects all the time. I do use coal and uranium, because every mining strategy I've ever used comes up with an abundance of it. Coal is so common that I can use it as a fuel and still have some left over to turn into diamonds. IC2 has never used more uranium than I get simply by trying to get something (anything) else, it also happens to be very efficient space and material wise for the amount of EU it generates, and the minigame/math is fun, and the entire process is enjoyable to me to one degree or another. Unlike 2.0 Forestry farms.

But you're right, I would still have a chip on my shoulder. Because (like I said) there are a multitude of ways that the new multifarms are just worse than the old style (in my opinion, obviously).

What I want is a Forestry Classic+. Forestry 1.x updated to the latest version of MC, with the ability to add bees, lines, and hives via a config (kinda like Gendustry does now). No Multifarms, no Butterflies, no Trees. The bees-via-config is so you can still have Extra Bees and Magic Bees despite them probably being horribly incompatible with Forestry Classic+.

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rhn, how about simply not use Forestry for farming, because if another mod has farming, it does it better? Then I don't need to use Magic Bees to fix Forestry 2.0's farming to maybe get to the same level every other farming method is at base, while also avoiding mutating my saplings into half-useless junk.
Also the saltpeter/niter thing doesn't always work. It's dependant on another mod author also thinking apatite is a PITA and putting in a workaround. I know Railcraft adds it, I think Metallurgy did as well, but the sources of Potassium Nitrate via cobble I don't remember... mostly because there's usually a better method of getting whatever-it-is you were going to use saltpetre for