[Question: Power Converters]

[PierceSG]

Something just came about my mind while I'm outside. So being unable to test it out right now, I hope fellow forumites can help me out.

1. Can a single BC Producer be connected to 5 Energy Bridge?
2. If yes for Q1, it is theoretically possible to attach 17 Steam Consumers to the 5 Energy Bridges attached to the single BC Producer, right?
3. If yes to both questions above, that is a theoretically 17000 mb steam input limit? Does that translate to 3400 mj?
4. If all above are correct, can a redstone energy conduit process that much mj?

Just being curious and looking for stuffs to do once I'm at home.

 

[Platinawolf]

I think there's a limit of 1000 MJ in the conduits. Tried a similar system earlier (Ultimate 1.4.2) and was limited to 500 MJ per conduit network, fed it with a rather large array of Ultimate Solar's.

 

[PierceSG]

I see. That makes me a very sad panda.

What about IC2's EU network? Any limitations? Or am I already limited at the LV/MV/HV/EV producer?

 

[Hydra]

I think there's a limit of 1000 MJ in the conduits. Tried a similar system earlier (Ultimate 1.4.2) and was limited to 500 MJ per conduit network, fed it with a rather large array of Ultimate Solar's.

There's no limit in conduits networks and have never been. There's a limit per conduit CONNECTION, and IIRC that has been upped from 500MJ/t to 1000 MJ/t. But if a machine would use / produce more you can simply add more connections. A conduit itself doesn't have any limits.

 

[dlord]

In case someone's interested:

I play on Unleashed 1.1.3. Based on my testing, a 36HP boiler with 9 liquiducts extracting the steam to 6 sides of a liquid tesseract has a cap of 600 mB/t. The receiving end is an energy bridge using 1 Steam Consumer and an HV producer for its output, which is connected to a mass fab.

If you connect liquiducts to 5 faces of the Steam Consumer, you can only get 500 mB/t at most.

To get the most out of power converters, you'll need to use 2 steam consumers. Either connect them to 2 tesseracts, or have liquiducts connect to 4 sides of each steam consumer.

With this setup, you can produce 350 EU/t. It produces less than 2 steam turbines, but more economical and fully automated.

 

[PierceSG]

Hmmm, I'll need to take a screenshot of my setup.

 

[Jiri Starrider]

Been messing about with this on stock Unleashed 1.1.3 using Liquid Tesseracts to pipe steam from an HP36 Boiler to an HV Bridge set up (from the bottom, HV/Energy Bridge/Steam Consumer and 4 more consumers on the sides of the bridge block), and I'm finding I'm limited by the Energy Bridge to 1056 mB/t.

Not optimising the layout yet to get all the steam but with just one tesseract per boiler (up to 5) I'm not getting more than 1056 (usually split 1000 on one face (up if connected) and 56 on another, or it flickers between 500/556 (up and north seem to be popular) and 400/656).

Done it with a compact tree, (one tesseract on top and 4 around the upper consumer (so sitting on the consumers) an extended one (one on top and the other 4 out level from the consumers) and both with liquiducts cross connecting everything, also tried it with all the tesseracts on separate channels and all on the same one. Also with and without powered liquiducts (the only picture of the Energy Bridge is from when I was first powering up the system with them powered). Never more than 1056 mB/t. With 5 boilers I can get 3600 mB/t out once optimised, but even without I should be putting 3000 through the system with all 5 on (600 each from a fully connected Liquid Tesseract). If there is low demand on the system, it only makes the HV in flickers, if maxed out (Charging 4 MFSU's) it's steady and the only variance is how the 1056 mB/t is split between the same 2 consumers.

Everything I've been able to research so far shows that each consumer should be able to handle 1000 mB/t each so I should be able to get my max output, I just don't seem to be getting that.

Any thoughts?

Spoiler

 

[MigukNamja]

The liquid tessies that interface with more than 1 Steam Consumer likely don't know which consumer to pump into and/or the Steam Consumers don't know which liqud tessie to pull/accept from. Try spreading the liquid tessies so they only touch 1 Steam Consumer each.

I haven't tried this myself - just a troubleshooting suggestion.[DOUBLEPOST=1381865214][/DOUBLEPOST]

There's no limit in conduits networks and have never been. There's a limit per conduit CONNECTION, and IIRC that has been upped from 500MJ/t to 1000 MJ/t. But if a machine would use / produce more you can simply add more connections. A conduit itself doesn't have any limits.

Aye, I remember KL confirming this in his thread. A single conduit network acts like a single entity rather than as a block-by-block entity like how BC power pipes work. In other words, a given, individual conduit piece in a network has no state by itself, but is rather a part of the entire network. A member of the Borg, if you will. It is only when the network receives power or outputs power that the 1000MJ/t limit is enforced per cpnnection. In theory, the network has no inherent throughput limit. You could/should be able to connect 10x or more BC producers on one side, each @ 1000MJ/t, and expect to get 10,000MJ/t out the other side, though it will require at least 10x connections.

This is also why loops in conduit networks are a non-issue and length doesn't matter.

I believe liquiducts are similar. No overall throughput constraint, but rather per connection

Indeed, I think all of TE is like this. The limit/tax is applied at the junction and is not part of the network itself.

 

[Jiri Starrider]

The liquid tessies that interface with more than 1 Steam Consumer likely don't know which consumer to pump into and/or the Steam Consumers don't know which liqud tessie to pull/accept from. Try spreading the liquid tessies so they only touch 1 Steam Consumer each.

I haven't tried this myself - just a troubleshooting suggestion.

Did, the reference to them being out from the other consumers (as opposed to on top as in the picture), didn't make a difference.

[DOUBLEPOST=1381865214][/DOUBLEPOST]

Aye, I remember KL confirming this in his thread. A single conduit network acts like a single entity rather than as a block-by-block entity like how BC power pipes work. In other words, a given, individual conduit piece in a network has no state by itself, but is rather a part of the entire network. A member of the Borg, if you will. It is only when the network receives power or outputs power that the 1000MJ/t limit is enforced per cpnnection. In theory, the network has no inherent throughput limit. You could/should be able to connect 10x or more BC producers on one side, each @ 1000MJ/t, and expect to get 10,000MJ/t out the other side, though it will require at least 10x connections.

This is also why loops in conduit networks are a non-issue and length doesn't matter.

I believe liquiducts are similar. No overall throughput constraint, but rather per connection

Indeed, I think all of TE is like this. The limit/tax is applied at the junction and is not part of the network itself.

Haven't played with the numbers on that one, but there is something up. I have 5 boilers running a BC Producer energy bridge each (once I get EU sorted then the MJ side will go the tesseract way) piping into a bank of 8 Redstone Energy Cells in parallel, all set to 100 out. The problem I noticed was on my fully charged Energetic Infuser that had one Redstone Energy Conduit feeding it. Added a depleted MPS helm to be charged and it rapidly dropped in stored energy. It can charge at a rate of 500 MJ/t max, but it was soon at about 1/4 stored power (and staying there) and charging at a rate of 71 MJ/t. Added 4 more conduits (couldn't get 6 as it's up against another bit of equipment) and it increased in stored energy to about half and was charging at about 230 MJ/t. Now, it is on the end of the line for power distribution, so I could see there being a limit due to that, but then why would it increase with additional conduits, if one conduit was pumping all that was available, and an amount that was way way under the limit for a single connection?

 

[MigukNamja]

That could be an Energetic Infuser quirk/bug. I noticed strange behavior with that, too. I would sometimes get 500MJ/t over a single connection, and sometimes only 200MJ/t.

I've also noticed conduit networks that have looped RECs act strange as well. For instance, if the RECs are configured 100/100, and the conduit network connects the output to the input - a short circuit, if you will - it could behave strangely. Since then, I've been careful to not loop my RECs. Not sure if you have that going on, but thought I'd mention it.

 

[Democretes]

You might want to change the converters so that the tesseract touches 2 at once. The converters can take up to 720mb/tick, if memory serves correct.

 

[Mysteana]

According to the configs the steam consumers are capable of accepting 1000mB/t, which equates to 200MJ/t

You can have a Liquid Tesseract be in contact with two steam consumers, which will output 400MJ/t through one BC Producer. That was my standard configuration when I was building up bulk power for a shared base. You can hook up a third steam consumer and a second tesseract for the last 100MJ/t for the connector, but it wasn't worth the extra expense. That's assuming the limit for a single connection is still 500MJ/t.

 

[Jiri Starrider]

That could be an Energetic Infuser quirk/bug. I noticed strange behavior with that, too. I would sometimes get 500MJ/t over a single connection, and sometimes only 200MJ/t.

I've also noticed conduit networks that have looped RECs act strange as well. For instance, if the RECs are configured 100/100, and the conduit network connects the output to the input - a short circuit, if you will - it could behave strangely. Since then, I've been careful to not loop my RECs. Not sure if you have that going on, but thought I'd mention it.

Thanks, did that. One on Up, the rest on North and Up, East and Up, etc. 1056. Also one on Up and the rest on North and East, East and South, etc. 1056. Removed the up. 1056. Added Liquiducts to the Up touching the 4 Tesseracts and Consumers. 1056.

According to the configs the steam consumers are capable of accepting 1000mB/t, which equates to 200MJ/t

You can have a Liquid Tesseract be in contact with two steam consumers, which will output 400MJ/t through one BC Producer. That was my standard configuration when I was building up bulk power for a shared base. You can hook up a third steam consumer and a second tesseract for the last 100MJ/t for the connector, but it wasn't worth the extra expense. That's assuming the limit for a single connection is still 500MJ/t.

Ya, just double checked the configs. 1000mB/t is what's listed. So 5 Tesseracts on all points pumping in 600 each should be 3000. Nope, 1056.

 

[Mysteana]

Just to rule out the bleeding obvious, you have configured the tesseracts to be send or receive only, right? Never both send and receive on the same tesseract?

 

[Jiri Starrider]

Just to rule out the bleeding obvious, you have configured the tesseracts to be send or receive only, right? Never both send and receive on the same tesseract?

OH?!?!?



Yes, send only at the Boiler, and receive only at the Bridge, but thanks for putting brain sweat on the issue.

 

[Mysteana]

Ok, just as a test, connect one boiler at a time to this set up:

Boiler -> Tesseract

Tesseract -> Steam Consumer x2 -> Energy Bridge -> BC Producer -> Conduit -> BC Consumer -> Energy Bridge -> Steam Producer x5

Needless to say, the tesseract is on a dedicated channel.

Steam producers will eat all the power you can give it and it doesn't care one whit if there's a destination for that steam. That makes it the perfect test energy sink as each steam producer will sink 200MJ/t

We're going to test just how much steam the boilers are pushing...

Edit:
All you have to do is check the first bridge to see how much steam is being pulled through the tesseract. If you're not getting what you're expecting and the boiler is definitely at half steam capacity since it won't output steam below 50% capacity, there's something wrong somewhere...

 

[Jiri Starrider]

Ok, just as a test, connect one boiler at a time to this set up:

Boiler -> Tesseract

Tesseract -> Steam Consumer x2 -> Energy Bridge -> BC Producer -> Conduit -> BC Consumer -> Energy Bridge -> Steam Producer x5

Needless to say, the tesseract is on a dedicated channel.

Steam producers will eat all the power you can give it and it doesn't care one whit if there's a destination for that steam. That makes it the perfect test energy sink as each steam producer will sink 200MJ/t

We're going to test just how much steam the boilers are pushing...

Edit:
All you have to do is check the first bridge to see how much steam is being pulled through the tesseract. If you're not getting what you're expecting and the boiler is definitely at half steam capacity since it won't output steam below 50% capacity, there's something wrong somewhere...

Ok, set this up on single player as my game's server went down as I was starting to muck about.

Set it up and the TL;DR version is, it worked.

One boiler, ~720. Two boilers ~1.4k. 3 ~2.1k. In and out. As it should. And, not like it was on the server.

Or was it? That set up was using BC producers/consumers. Went back and swapped them for HV like I'm using on the server with all 3 boilers on line and everything except the energy being made the same and.... 1056. Added extra connections between the HV Producer and Consumer, no change, 1056.

So the HV producer is the limit. Swapped out the HV for EV and it was back to using all the steam again with ~2.1k out the other side.

Brought it up to 5 boilers and the EU/t was running 1.7/1.8k fluctuating with 3600 steam on the far side, max output for the 5 boilers. Both with all Tesseracts on the same frequency and with each boiler pair matched to one on a consumer, same result.

Of course, the max per consumer is 1000, so added 2 more boilers for a max boiler out of 5040 with 7. And the result was that the max it will handle to make the full EV amount of 2048 is 4215 mb/t, so you only need 6 boilers to get to that. Will put an HV transformer in line after the EV producer to get 4 packets of 512 EU/t for each tick of 2048 EU.

Swapped back the BC producer/consumer with all 7 pumping in and it maxed out the bridge, all 5 faces at 1000 steam each and outputting 1000 MJ/t

Oh, and FYI, didn't need 5x Steam Producers on the other end, all the steam was pumped out of one side (down).


Thanks for the idea, it set me on the path to figure out the issue was the HV Producer. (Really hoping that wasn't an obvious bit of info I overlooked. My Google Fu is normally strong... )

 

[Mysteana]

Ahhh, that was a bit of information I was missing before.

The IC2 producers only output 1 packet/t (configurable of course) no matter how much potential energy there is and the cap for HV is, you guessed it, 1056mB of steam or just a smidge over 211MJ/t

The producers do not operate on a per-connector basis. It's per block. Adding more cables or conduits to a IC/BC producer will not increase its throughput. You need more producers on the bridge.

 

[PierceSG]

In this case, wouldn't an EV producer with a HV-Transformer attached to it work better?

 

[Jiri Starrider]

Ahhh, that was a bit of information I was missing before.

The IC2 producers only output 1 packet/t (configurable of course) no matter how much potential energy there is and the cap for HV is, you guessed it, 1056mB of steam or just a smidge over 211MJ/t

The producers do not operate on a per-connector basis. It's per block. Adding more cables or conduits to a IC/BC producer will not increase its throughput. You need more producers on the bridge.

Ya, could do 3 and 3 I guess, 3000 in wouldn't quite be the full 3168 to get 3 steady 512 EU/t streams, but an EV producer....

In this case, wouldn't an EV producer with a HV-Transformer attached to it work better?

Yup, that's what I'll be doing. EV Producer's 1 2048 packet into HV Transformer for 4 512 packets out.