[q]How to get imperial bees?

[Galaxystarr]

Ok i am really trying hard this time. My goal is imperial bees, mainly for ambrosia and serums but it seems that i can't get them. I only got noble bees so far. I get noble or cultivated everytime i put them in an apiary even if their inactive's are same with active's. Currently trying to get majestic bees, then imperial i think.

Tried soul frames btw.

Thanks ^^

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, first off there isn't a 'guaranteed' chance of getting a mutation, just because one is *possible*. Patience is a virtue you will need, should you wish to breed bees.

First, you establish a pure Noble strain. If you are playing with Extra Bees, you will want some Noble drones, because Noble crosses back with certain other lines.

I'm also going to assume you have a stable Cultivated line that you wish to maintain.

Now then, Soul Frames are your friend. They increase the chance of mutation. Three soul frames in the apiary that you cross your PURE Noble princess with your PURE Cultivated drone.

If you see any Drones with 'royal', use them. But if all you get are Noble/Cultivated hybrids, then remove the soul frames, and breed Noble drones back in to get a pure Noble princess. You might luck out with Majestic, in which case go back to using that, but you primarily want to try and use pure-bred rather than hybrid bees for your mutations.

Once you get Majestic, things get complicated. Majestic isn't all that useful, you want Imperial. Fortunately, it's surprisingly difficult to establish a Royal strain. So if you get, say, Noble/Majestic on your Princes, and cross with a Magestic/Noble drone, you can end up with an Imperial because Magestic + Noble = Imperial.

So, when actively trying for a mutation, use Soul Frames (Impregnated Frame + Soulsand), when trying to purify the strain, pull them out.

EDIT: Thanks for catching that, plznt3r

 

[slay_mithos]

Noble + cultivated = Majestic (8%)
Noble + Majestic = Imperial (8%)
source: http://mc.nessirojgaming.eu/bees/index.php?title=Majestic_Bee

Those chances are without soul frames or other frames modifying the mutation chances.
With 3 soul frames, you would get a 3.375 x 8 = 27% chances to mutate.

Do note that those chances are all based on the premise that you have a pure for the princess and the drone, the chances are significantly lower when having mixed bees, even if both have the two species.

Anyway, for most questions related to bees, I direct you to this awesome wiki on bees that has been written specifically with FTB ultimate in mind:
http://mc.nessirojgaming.eu/bees/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

[Galaxystarr]

So i have to purify them and be patient?

 

[plzent3r]

Shneeky I'm pretty sure that by Royal you mean Majestic, correct? If I'm not mistaken there is not a Royal species in the game. Might want to edit that so's not to confuse anyone.

 

[slay_mithos]

So i have to purify them and be patient?

Well, let's just say that breeding with non pures is way more luck based, you basically divide your chance of mutation by 2.
Knowing that the chance is rolled twice (for the two 'species' that the bees have), it makes it highly unlikely to make a pure out of the mix.

When purifying your bees, you might want to add chocolate frames, because those greatly decrease the time it will take for the queen to die.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Shneeky I'm pretty sure that by Royal you mean Majestic, correct? If I'm not mistaken there is not a Royal species in the game. Might want to edit that so's not to confuse anyone.

edited, thanks for catching that for me

 

[Galaxystarr]

Ok one more question, (sorry for that one but) how to purify bees

 

[plzent3r]

Ok one more question, (sorry for that one but) how to purify bees

Just keep the same drones and the same princess in one apiary until you get stackable drones every time the queen dies. When the drones stack every time, you know they are same, and thus meaning they are purebred bees. Hope this helps.

 

[slay_mithos]

Ok one more question, (sorry for that one but) how to purify bees

2 possibilities:

First is if you have pure drones of the species, you breed the queen for several generations with those pure drones.
Keep using pure drones until your princess is pure.

Second is when you just bred a new species, and have both a princess and a drone with at least 1 of the species each (both are noble/imperial, but you have no pure imperial). In that case, you basically try your luck by breeding them together, without soul frames, and hope that it will net you multiple bees with at least 1 for the wanted species.
Continue until you get a pure, or until you loose the possibility of going for it (no more princess/drone with the species).

 

[plzent3r]

edited, thanks for catching that for me

No problem. At first I thought there might be a new bee! I was all worried about my collection not being complete anymore. Phew.

 

[slay_mithos]

Just keep the same drones and the same princess in one apiary until you get stackable drones every time the queen dies. When the drones stack every time, you know they are same, and thus meaning they are purebred bees. Hope this helps.

He is asking how to purify, not how to breed pures.
Purifying is when you start with non-pure bees.

But yeah, always have a couple of pure for the species you need, they will produce new drones for you if they have traits that produce 2x or more (most species, except mineral ones and some magical).

 

[snooder]

Ok one more question, (sorry for that one but) how to purify bees

Ok, so here's how the process should go.

You have a beealyzer right? Analyze your current set of noble and cultivated bees. Take one pair of pure Noble bees and one pair of pure Cultivated bees and put each pair in an apiary that's automated to continually cycle. You do this with a wooden pipe and an apiarist pipe. These two apiaries should have chocolate frames. The point of this is to have a ready supply of noble and cultivated drones.

Then set up 2 or 3 more apiaries for breeding. One of these apiaries will be for converting new princesses into noble princesses (that's what he meant by purifying). This apiary will also have chocolate frames. The other(s) will be for trying mutations. These will have soul frames.

You want to put a stack of noble drones in the conversion apiary. Then just put any princess in the top slot and cycle the princess back in when the queen dies until you get a pure Noble princess. Analyze the bee at every step to make sure it is pure and not a hybrid.

Put a noble princess in with a cultivated drone in the mutation apiaries. The more apiaries you have, the faster it will take to get majestic. I like to run with 3 mutation apiaries around that stage. When the queen dies, analyze the bees. If any of them have majestic in the name, put it in a chest and save for later. If the bee doesn't (let's say you get hybrid Noble-Cultivated) throw it away if it's a drone. If it is a princess, put it back into the purification apiary until it is a noble princess again. Then put it in with another cultivated drone in the mutation apiary. Repeat until you have a drone and princess that each have majestic somewhere.

Then put that drone and princess into an apiary without soul frames. Analyze the offspring and put any pure majestic drones with the princess. Repeat until drone and princess are both pure majestic.

Then replace the automated cultivated apiary with majestic bees and repeat the previous steps until you get imperial bees.

 

[Galaxystarr]

2 possibilities:

First is if you have pure drones of the species, you breed the queen for several generations with those pure drones.
Keep using pure drones until your princess is pure.

Second is when you just bred a new species, and have both a princess and a drone with at least 1 of the species each (both are noble/imperial, but you have no pure imperial). In that case, you basically try your luck by breeding them together, without soul frames, and hope that it will net you multiple bees with at least 1 for the wanted species.
Continue until you get a pure, or until you loose the possibility of going for it (no more princess/drone with the species).

Just keep the same drones and the same princess in one apiary until you get stackable drones every time the queen dies. When the drones stack every time, you know they are same, and thus meaning they are purebred bees. Hope this helps.

Okay, first off there isn't a 'guaranteed' chance of getting a mutation, just because one is *possible*. Patience is a virtue you will need, should you wish to breed bees.

First, you establish a pure Noble strain. If you are playing with Extra Bees, you will want some Noble drones, because Noble crosses back with certain other lines.

I'm also going to assume you have a stable Cultivated line that you wish to maintain.

Now then, Soul Frames are your friend. They increase the chance of mutation. Three soul frames in the apiary that you cross your PURE Noble princess with your PURE Cultivated drone.

If you see any Drones with 'royal', use them. But if all you get are Noble/Cultivated hybrids, then remove the soul frames, and breed Noble drones back in to get a pure Noble princess. You might luck out with Majestic, in which case go back to using that, but you primarily want to try and use pure-bred rather than hybrid bees for your mutations.

Once you get Majestic, things get complicated. Majestic isn't all that useful, you want Imperial. Fortunately, it's surprisingly difficult to establish a Royal strain. So if you get, say, Noble/Majestic on your Princes, and cross with a Magestic/Noble drone, you can end up with an Imperial because Magestic + Noble = Imperial.

So, when actively trying for a mutation, use Soul Frames (Impregnated Frame + Soulsand), when trying to purify the strain, pull them out.

EDIT: Thanks for catching that, plznt3r

Thank you guys you really helped me a lot! I am gonna try what you said and hopefully get some imperial bees ^^

 

[Evil Hamster]

I like to breed a couple stacks of 64 of each pure drone breed.

Breed any common princess with 8 pure drones to change the princess type for further breeding.

 

[RedBoss]

I like to breed a couple stacks of 64 of each pure drone breed.

Breed any common princess with 8 pure drones to change the princess type for further breeding.

Yay! I've been breeding bees properly, although casually. I took this route just thinking it made sense. I was also taking about a quarter stack of drones and breeding against rocky princess to get more princesses in a strain. I hadn't looked at bee info other than the combinations. I've just been trusting that the 5 I got in AP Biology wouldn't fail me lol

 

[slay_mithos]

Rocky is actually not the best base for bees, as they have that nasty 1x drones.
You need to check that trait too when making your pure, because breeding is way harder when your queen only produces 1 drone.

One could say that enough breeding to make a pure would also get rid of the trait, but that means that if you get your pure fast (2 generations is the minimum), you might run into problems later.

 

[RedBoss]

One could say that enough breeding to make a pure would also get rid of the trait, but that means that if you get your pure fast (2 generations is the minimum), you might run into problems later.

I'll keep that in mine going forward. I've given up on those first bees since they're in my 1.4.7 world, but I should get going a lot quickr in my next world

 

[ThemsAllTook]

Majestic isn't all that useful, you want Imperial.

Though you do need Imperial to get royal jelly (unless you want to go for Classical from ExtraBees, but that requires you to have Heroic first, so Imperial is probably a lot easier in the early game), there is a reason to keep Majestic bees in production. The rate at which they produce dripping combs is roughly 2.5 times as fast Noble or Imperial, making them very nearly the most efficient way to manufacture honey. Cultivated bees just barely edge them out on raw honey production, but it comes in the form of honey combs rather than dripping combs, which means more time spent centrifuging, and beeswax as a byproduct.

 

[slay_mithos]

If you are going for alviaries, you would need quite big sums of wax, so having a bee that produces honey and wax is not bad at all.

After a very short while, what I missed to really launch alviary production was wax, by a very large margin, followed by honey, because my production for the two "rare" products were using alviaries, and they produced way more than what the other two products could allow to be used right away.