[Proposal] Nanotech Addon

[RavynousHunter]

As some of you may or may not remember, I proposed an idea a while back about a mod called Nanotech, introducing all kinds of nanotechnology-based awesomeness, including free-flying nanites. I've been working a little on its design...document, I guess, trying to figure out how it'd work, in a mechanical sense. I know I'd want it to be expensive, an endgame addon to Thermal Expansion. However, I'm at something of an impasse. You see, I'm torn between using almost strictly vanilla + TE items to make things in the mod, or if I wanted to create my own materials. So, as a part of this thread, I ask you guys to give me your opinion: custom materials as a gateway to getting more advanced nanotechnology, or simply gate it behind higher power and vanilla + TE resource requirements?

I've attached the current draft of my proposal document; if you guys could peruse it and give me your opinions, it'd be much appreciated. What do you like about it? What do you NOT like about it? Any comments, questions, or suggestions?

 

[Golrith]

First initial though is that TE/TF adds "Mana Ingots" (aka Mithril) but no way to obtain them and no use for them. You could use that as an endgame resource, if you can work out a sufficiently complex/awkward/expensive crafting process.

Now to read the PDF.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Hrm...I could manage that. Perhaps gate it thru enderium or somethin.

 

[Pyure]

Just to be clear, I skimmed the document. On the positive side, I really like the theme, the machine ideas and the general level of sophisticated thought put into it.

In the middle, I like the nanite personal augmentations. They're fairly clever, and there just isn't really much more we can do with personal effects anyway probably.

On the downside, I would be concerned about the machines added for simple reason of a lack of mechanics.
I see a furnace which is faster than a regular furnace
A pulverizer which gives more than a regular pulverizer (and subscribes to ore-multiplication-inflation a tiny bit but thats ok)

In these cases, "nanites" are just another magical medium.

Looking at, say, PneumaticCraft, I was more convinced that a new mechanic was at work there. It would be interesting if a different mechanical angle was brought to bear here.

 

[Eruantien]

First initial though is that TE/TF adds "Mana Ingots" (aka Mithril) but no way to obtain them and no use for them. You could use that as an endgame resource, if you can work out a sufficiently complex/awkward/expensive crafting process.

Now to read the PDF.

TE4? It also adds "Mana Infused Ore"; does that not drop mana dust/ingots? Haven't tested myself, but that seems like where the mana should be coming from.
Although how to get primal mana is beyond me...

I, for one, enjoy the thought of the personal augmentations. Although... maybe these augmentations could be integrated into a sort of "Zero Suit", which would then be fused onto your character and allow for modifications? It might make a little more sense than directly modifying yourself. (Yes, I like Metroid.)

 

[Golrith]

Yes, it adds Ore, but it doesn't generate it. Mithril (Mana) is a resource added by Thermal Foundation, but not used (yet) by anything.

 

[RavynousHunter]

The machines in the document are just examples, I'll add more later on. The proposal is, at best, a rough draft, right now. Also, yes, the power requirements may be a little ridiculous: that's the point. Everything in the mod starts out pretty powerful, by default, and only gets better the further into it you get. The entry costs are high, but then again, so are the dividends.

Also, I've been thinking, and I believe I may have come up with a somewhat interesting tiering system, based upon a new machine: the Endrite Processor. It has two internal fluid buffers and one slot for solid inputs. It will only allow gelid cryotheum, blazing pyrotheum, water, lava, resonant ender, molten enderium, and molten electrum, and energized glowstone in for the processing, and even then, it'll only take in fluids that are right for the (selectable in-GUI) target material you wish to produce.

Tier One, Endrite: Endrite is a refined form of enderium. Its conductive properties have been improved and is ideal for making the entry-level machines and nanite clusters. Requires 100 mB of both molten enderium and molten electrum, as well as two redstone dust. Outputs 2 endrite dust, which can be smelted into ingots.

Tier Two, Refined Endrite: By processing raw endrite dust in the hellish heat of lava and then cooling it in a water bath, you get a tempered, more durable form of endrite, suitable for more advanced nanites and machinery. Requires 250 mB of both lava and water, as well as 2 endrite dust. Outputs 2 refined endrite dust, which can be smelted.

Tier Three, Imperiform: By mixing refined endrite dust with blazing pyrotheum and energized glowstone, you have discovered an altogether new material, imperiform, which is suitable for high-quality nanites and machinery. Requires 500 mB of both energized glowstone and blazing pyrotheum, as well as 2 refined endrite dust. Outputs 1 imperiform gel, which is immediately ready for use.

Tier Four, Superiform: Imperiform is lacking. The extradimensional qualities of the base enderium have been largely lost during processing, and must be replenished in a bath of resonant ender, and frozen into the gel to form the most amazing material known: superiform, which makes only the best nanites and machinery. Requires 1,000 mB of both gelid cryotheum and resonant ender, as well as 2 imperiform gel. Yields 1 superiform gel, which is immediately ready for use.

Each material would serve as the base for machinery and nanites of that particular tier. Without at least endrite, you can't begin to create anything else from this mod; the Nanite Forge requires several endrite components, as do all other Tier I machines. Only endrite is durable enough to handle the intense heat and pressure required to make even the most basic nanites, and its conductive qualities are rivaled only by the higher-tier materials. Entry into the mod also unlocks access (with the necessary materials) to even more powerful power storage and transmission options.

Endrite Flux Conduit: By crafting a piece of redstone energy conduit with 2 ingots (ingot-conduit-ingot, shaped recipe) of endrite, you have a powerful new tool in your power transmission arsenal. This conduit can carry up to 16,384 RF/t with zero losses.

Refined Endrite Flux Conduit: By crafting a piece of redstone energy conduit with 2 ingots of refined endrite, you have discovered something even better for transmitting power! Unlike its comparatively feeble cousin, this whopper can transmit up to 32,768 RF/t with no loss at all.

Imperiform Flux Conduit: You've decided to treat your refined endrite flux conduit with a ball of imperiform gel (shapeless), you've gone up another tier in your search for the ultimate power transmission solution. This conduit can carry up to a massive 65,536 RF/t!

Superiform Flux Conduit: You insane bastard. You treated your imperiform flux conduits with superiform gel?! Congratulations! You've completely broken the everything! This god-like cable seems to have absolutely no limit on how much power it can transfer! (True maximum is 2,147,483,647 RF/t, the maximum allowable by a Java int.)

 

[Pyure]

Fun stuff dood. I'm not sold on the name "Superiform" though.

Also my primary concern with the machines wasn't their design but their mechanic. If I put ore into a machine and it runs via "nanites", that's no different than telling me it runs via cooking a log.

On the other hand, just tossing out ideas, if the machine is a multiblock, and it processes by placing an ore-block into a slot, and then the render on the block goes fuzzy while its processed by nanites, that's a bit more convincing as a new mechanic.

 

[Golrith]

One idea I had ages ago was for a nanite repair station. Put in a damaged item, chuck in some nanites and some raw material, and they will repair said item with raw material, and nanites take some damage (or just used up in the repair process).

 

[Nfrance]

I feel like what people said about the mechanics of the machine is a valid concern, and so it should somehow have some unique way or working. The way I see it is you would foremost need the brain before the nanites, for a huge starting gate to the mod, and then you would have to get a "blueprint" from the brain for the nanites, so you would have to scan your gold ore in the brain before you can pulverize it, but then I feel like it should be a lot less of GUI and actual game interaction with the Nanites. My own 2 cents. Also I think for some of the effects you need a suit, and not just yourself, because that would feel a little to strong if you are that strong completely bare handed, but things like potion effect lasting 50% longer could directly be applied to you.

 

[pizzawolf14]

I feel like what people said about the mechanics of the machine is a valid concern, and so it should somehow have some unique way or working. The way I see it is you would foremost need the brain before the nanites, for a huge starting gate to the mod, and then you would have to get a "blueprint" from the brain for the nanites, so you would have to scan your gold ore in the brain before you can pulverize it, but then I feel like it should be a lot less of GUI and actual game interaction with the Nanites. My own 2 cents. Also I think for some of the effects you need a suit, and not just yourself, because that would feel a little to strong if you are that strong completely bare handed, but things like potion effect lasting 50% longer could directly be applied to you.

I like this. All of it. Well, almost. Instead of requiring a suit for the self nanites, maybe gate it so that too many nanites injected into your skin and bloodstream causes you to feel like they're bugs under your skin or something, causing you to go insane and become nauseous. Or maybe have the nanites occasionally malfunction, with frequency & intensity based upon material of the nanite, which make you punch randomly or uncontrollably jump or move forward. I think that would be a neat downside and solution to the more powerful nanites that are easily abusable with other mods.

 

[Cptqrk]

could you at least make it use the liquid ender you get from Tinker's Construct as well? I made a mistake and thought they were interchangeable.

I like the idea in general, but would like to see different implementations. Furnace upgrades are so 1.2.... (big cheesy grin)

 

[Democretes]

I do like the idea here, and I would definitely recomend making it independent from TE. There's a lot of mods out there compatible with RF now, so making a mod based off of just TE instead of RF in general makes it very limited.

 

[Golrith]

Wait, I know where this is leading....

 

[RavynousHunter]

I do like the idea here, and I would definitely recomend making it independent from TE. There's a lot of mods out there compatible with RF now, so making a mod based off of just TE instead of RF in general makes it very limited.

The thing is, TE is still very early, or at most, mid-game, which is totally understandable. If that's how Lemming wants it, then that's how its gonna be. However, well...not to potentially give way to inflammatory comments, but think of it how GregTech once was to IC2. IC2 on its own didn't really offer many late-game options, except filling an entire base built entirely out of MFSUs using a massive bank of nuclear reactors. GregTech fixed that, and offered ways to use the new-found power it added to be useful, instead of just kinda there. TE, as in the mod itself not the RF framework, to my knowledge, doesn't really have something like that, something that uses what you can get from TE itself, but used to make even more powerful utilities and give you even better options.

I think adding TiCon's liquid ender would be good as a little compatibility thing. Compatibility is good. As for "machines running off nanites", you did get from the document that you actually have to physically supply the machine with actual nanite clusters, correct? The main problem I have with in-world (non-GUI) operations is that, from what I've seen, it adds more overhead to a comparatively simple process. Its like, oh, how about IC2's macerator? You don't plonk the block down in front of the macerator and actually watch it break it down into dust. Yes, that would be very fancy, but I've got a sneaking suspicion that it'd also be very taxing on players' machines and would make automation even more of a chore. You forget, I want this to at least loosely fit into the theme established by Thermal Expansion, but with a sci-fi/cyberpunk feel of its own.

Besides, your nanites will already be able to (with the proper clusters given and programming provided) do everything from automatically mine (think the IC2 miner, but faster and...not IC2) to farm to harvest mobs to point defense. Combine that with the amount of upgrade options you'll have to help specialize them for their particular functions like fortune/looting, auto-smelting, turning a close-range attack into an electrical jolt, and so on, and you'd have flexible minions that work perpetually, can recharge remotely (if within range and upgraded properly), and can work in the blink of an eye.

Building the brain first does sound like a fair idea, however. Maybe you'd need to jump-start the brain with a copy of your brain's memories; something that would then be able to explain the flexibility and knowledge of your nanites. That way, they know that gold ore contains gold, they can identify it, extract the useful bits, and cast off the dross...maybe give you a 5% chance at getting a block of sand, representing the broken-down remains of the ores that have been ripped apart.