power from cobble in horizons

[steve g]

playing with the new machines and mods, I came up with this neat little setup:

basically a bunch of igneous extruders pumping out cobble into a bunch of gany's volcanic furnaces. these are like magma crucibles, but require no power and much faster, but produce small amounts of lava compared to the crucible. feed lava into magmatic dynamos and charge up those REC's. this could be an awesome starter/mid game power setup, the most expensive thing in here is the furnaces, requiring 12 diamonds each. everything else is easily obtained with a few y-12 mining runs. (the recipe for the dense lava cells is messed up i think, mc forum thread states 5 buckets lava/4 diamonds, but in game, the middle is a fire block...had to give myself fire to make them)

Id do this quickly, the author for gany's mods might swing the nerf bat at the furnaces and require them to use fuel/power to run.

 

[Siro]

As far as I can tell, they're working as intended. It is not intended to cheat yourself in fire though. You're supposed to use a magmatic centrifuge to make the fire.

 

[Vasa]

As far as I can tell, they're working as intended. It is not intended to cheat yourself in fire though. You're supposed to use a magmatic centrifuge to make the fire.

Thank you ganny! :>

 

[JoeDolca]

Fuel from cobble?

Mother of god... GIVE THIS MAN A NOBEL PRIZE!

The diamond price is steep tho.

 

[RedBoss]

This is neat, but even as a lower tech builder this isn't fun. TO ME ANYWAY. lol.

Just seems exploitive.

 

[MigukNamja]

Agree with RedBoss

IMHO, this "cobblestone to lava without power" goes against the high energy costs to do the same with TE3 Magma Crucible or MFR lava gen.

It's a fun sandbox game and everyone has a different playstyle, but if one is looking for balance, this is not it. Then again, it is Horizons, where the whole point is to expand one's...um....horizons...and try out new mods.

I tend to play worlds longer if there is balance (between the mods). The better the balance, the better the mods work together and the more likely I am to use any and all mods.

 

[Siro]

Agree with RedBoss

IMHO, this "cobblestone to lava without power" goes against the high energy costs to do the same with TE3 Magma Crucible or MFR lava gen.

It's a fun sandbox game and everyone has a different playstyle, but if one is looking for balance, this is not it. Then again, it is Horizons, where the whole point is to expand one's...um....horizons...and try out new mods.

I tend to play worlds longer if there is balance (between the mods). The better the balance, the better the mods work together and the more likely I am to use any and all mods.

Generally if one has a problem with "lava without power" one should also have a problem with "infinite cobblestone without power" or possibly "infinite water without rainwater collection" to be consistent. Gany is really good about listening to and implementing suggestions and I'd highly recommend hitting up his threads over on minecraftforum.net if you have a good idea for compatibility options (such as requiring RF when TE is present or the like).

 

[MigukNamja]

Generally if one has a problem with "lava without power" one should also have a problem with "infinite cobblestone without power" or possibly "infinite water without rainwater collection" to be consistent.

Not even close to being the same. Vanilla MC has had infinite water since...I think day 1. Infinite cobble gen has also been part of vanilla MC since the beginning.

However, vanilla MC has never had "free lava" or "lava without power".

 

[Siro]

Not even close to being the same. Vanilla MC has had infinite water since...I think day 1. Infinite cobble gen has also been part of vanilla MC since the beginning.

However, vanilla MC has never had "free lava" or "lava without power".

There's no vanilla auto mining for cobble, so there's no free lava without a mod-added block doing all the work of mining the cobble for the player (for free).

That being said, this is noted under the Volcanic Furnace's description, "As of now, it doesn't require any special conditions or fuel to run. This will probably change in the near future." So again, I suggest providing him a good suggestion on what you think is fair in terms of power source/consumption.

 

[MigukNamja]

There's no vanilla auto mining for cobble, so there's no free lava without a mod-added block doing all the work of mining the cobble for the player (for free).

With pistons, you can *make* the infinite cobblestone, but not break it, correct. However, other mods crossed the "breaking cobblestone for free" line well before Thermal Expansion did. Besides, free (broken) cobblestone is not equivalent to power-free lava-gen.

That being said, this is noted under the Volcanic Furnace's description, "As of now, it doesn't require any special conditions or fuel to run. This will probably change in the near future." So again, I suggest providing him a good suggestion on what you think is fair in terms of power source/consumption.

It sounds like he already knows he needs to require power. Am guessing he hasn't implemented/decided on power input/requirements yet. But, yes, will offer him a suggestion to use RF and a good benchmark is the Magma Crucible.

 

[steve g]

hey im slowly making my way through all the new crazy stuff horizons brought out. I didnt intend to bring up an 'exploit'...just thought it was neat.

ya the cobble gen mechanic was never an exploit...if youve played skyblock you know you have to make one to get past the initial tiny island you spawn on. Ive made many piston based machines that would speed up the process 10 fold or more. then block breakers started showing up and oh boy (fond memories of redpower...sigh). the igneous extruder is basically the same thing, water source+lava source+block breaker all in one block. the thing with the volcanic furnace is you can throw stacks of *anything* at it and it produces lava...but its not very efficient. hence why you need 9 extruders to feed 4 furnaces to make enough lava to keep those engines running. I think most items are labeled to produce 16mb of lava, so it would take a stack to squeeze out 1 bucket of lava

 

[kaiomann]

Yup, I also noticed that almost anything can be dropped into a volcanic furnace. That might be a nice way to dump all your excess cobble and whatever.

 

[steve g]

Yup, I also noticed that almost anything can be dropped into a volcanic furnace. That might be a nice way to dump all your excess cobble and whatever.

you can..and its REALLY nice to have a use for all that marble/basalt/gravel/dirt/whatever you pick up on a mining run. just throw it in and dont care

 

[Bomb Bloke]

IMHO, this "cobblestone to lava without power" goes against the high energy costs to do the same with TE3 Magma Crucible or MFR lava gen.

One of the lower-tier bee lines (demonic) lets you do much the same thing. Their combs give phosphor, which goes in the squeezer along with cobble to in order to produce lava - enough to power the centrifuge/squeezer, with plenty left over.

I'd say at twelve diamonds per volcanic furnace, bees have still got this beat.

 

[MigukNamja]

One of the lower-tier bee lines (demonic) lets you do much the same thing. Their combs give phosphor, which goes in the squeezer along with cobble to in order to produce lava - enough to power the centrifuge/squeezer, with plenty left over.

I'd say at twelve diamonds per volcanic furnace, bees have still got this beat.

The bees don't produce that by themselves and you don't get Demonic bees off the bat. You're sinking a lot of time and resources into bees to get there and even after you're there, you need the infrastructure in place to keep it going, namely:

• Multiple Apiaries/Alveraries
• Frames (optional, but highly recommended)
• Piping
• Centrifuge (which needs power)
• Squeezer (which needs power)
• Sand, dirt, etc.,. to throw in the squeezer with the phosphor

To get demonic and then all that, you'll likely sink way more than 12 diamond's worth and *way* more time than building volcanic furnaces.

Cheaper/faster/easier to just pump lava from the Nether.

 

[steve g]

bees have still got this beat.

if only horizons had bees Ive done demonic/fiendish bees (look for my lava crystal reactor in showcase) and I would do it again, if only we had them.

no bc in horizons, so not sure what you would pump lava with. I see TE, but i dont see item/energy/fluid tesseracts, and no ender tanks either. so not sure how the lava from nether thing would go, unless you ran your base in the nether so far this volcanic furnace seems the way to go if you need lava on demand.

 

[Yosomith]

I don't see a problem with a power free lava gen to be honest. Lava is infinite once you get to the nether anyway (which is easily obtainable if you've managed to find 12 diamonds for the furnace anyway) and it provides a lag free alternative to chunkloading pumps in the nether.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

The bees don't produce that by themselves and you don't get Demonic bees off the bat.

Putting aside that the same could be said for the furnaces (who has that many diamonds spare at the start of the game?), once you have these bees (bearing in mind that you break into their line about the same time you start the royal/industrious lines, and all three species in the line give you phosphor), you're getting loads of lava for nothing - I centrifuged, smelted and (in some cases) compressed the output of about twenty different bees using the lava output of one demonic queen (while also occasionally recharging my gravichest plate, running a bank of recyclers, or generating obsidian, from the excess).

Granted, that demonic queen also needed a single igneous extruder to generate the cobble needed to make that lava, though you'd want those for the volcanic furnaces too.

And sure, the furnaces are a lot simpler, but I'd say the costs involved for initial setup are roughly similar (even assuming you're not using the infrastructure involved for other things as well). After that? You're certainly not spending twelve diamonds per alveary, more like one per four!

I've not yet tried the actual fuel-producing bees, but I'd imagine they're a more efficient "infinite free energy" system again.

if only horizons had bees Ive done demonic/fiendish bees (look for my lava crystal reactor in showcase) and I would do it again, if only we had them.

Sorry, to be clear, my point isn't "bees are better then this, use them instead", rather it's "this is no more 'exploitive' then bees are". People are talking as if free lava is some "new" mechanic that could "unbalance the game", or as if demonic bees are hard to get.

 

[MigukNamja]

...or as if demonic bees are hard to get.

Not hard, but involved and potentially tedious, depending upon the RNG.

...bearing in mind that you break into their line about the same time you start the royal/industrious lines

Not inconsiderable, that is. Assuming you're an experienced bee breeder and know exactly what you're doing, that's at least 4 to 5 hours of dedicated game-play right there:

1. Start creosote production (sand + brick + wood/sugar/cactus/coal)
2. Collect a sufficient princess and drone population
3. Make impregnated casing using creosote in a carpenter
4. Make apiaries
5. Piping (diamond, apiarist, itemduct, etc.,.) for (some) automated apiaries
6. Visit Nether to collect soul sand to make soul frames, which also requires impregnated frames from creosote
7. Breed (lots of dice-rolling here)
8. Purify desired strains as necessary
9. Copy strains
10. [Optional] Do Imperial/Industrious for Alvearies

*If* you are very lucky and you know exactly what you're doing, that's 4 to 5 hours of focused gameplay. However, you can't "speed" up steps 7 and 8. You have to wait for them to run their course. But, let's assume you aren't lucky and/or you aren't an expert. That's probably 10 to 20 hours of in-game time focused on bees to get an efficient phosphor producer. Then, if your goal is lava as your primary power, you will need to spam apiaries or else invest into Alvearies.

After that? You're certainly not spending twelve diamonds per alveary, more like one per four!

That's not saying much. All tech mods (no exception that I'm aware of) end with maintenance-free, infinite loops. It's not a question of whether there is an infinite loop, but of the time/investment/knowledge spent to get there. Even GregTech - when automated - ends with an infinite-loop Fusion Reactor.

People are talking as if free lava is some "new" mechanic that could "unbalance the game"

In the overworld, yes, it is unbalancing.


In Minecraft, the "balance vs. creativity/fun" equation is and should be weighted more heavily towards the creativity/fun than in other games like MMOs. However, when something is so unbalanced that it threatens to nullify a vanilla mechanic (visiting the Nether and/or dedicated overworld spelunking to get lava) or the work put in by many other mods, it starts to infringe upon the fun. And, yes, "balance" is very subjective.

Some mods offer too much, too cheaply, too early and do one or more of those in much greater excess than most other mods. In other words, they stick out. This particlur block in this mod sticks out.

But, as said earlier, the mod author seems to be aware of it. Not a big deal.

 

[steve g]

to be honest...diamonds are not hard to get in horizons. It has magical crops, which has a diamond seed to 'grow' diamonds. granted, you need 8 drops from these crops to make the diamonds, and it takes a LOT of essence ore to even get the seeds to begin with. eventually you will get enough excess seeds to make larger crops, therefore harvest more drops, etc etc. and I've branch mined quite a bit at y-12. with a fortune pickaxe, i have a few stacks in storage. and much more in metallurgy, te and tico metals. I already have the OP's setup in my survival map, hooked up to a magma crucible, pulverizer, and additional machines. Its time consuming, but in the end the investment is well worth it. and with all the metallurgy/tico metals, i dont need diamonds for tools/armor...i can make WAY better stuff, once i figure out how tico works (sanguinite pick with fortune and unbreaking...man. it lasts a LONG time. and im reading up about tico tools with upgrades...cant wait )

as for the bees..it highly depends on how much lava you really need. properly setup, those bees will generate ridiculous amounts of lava, enough to run large rows of magmatic engines, produce enough lava crystals to run a few boilers, or whatever else you would need large amounts of lava for. right now with this setup, i dont need that much. once the magmatic dynamos are charged up, you have so much RF to run quite a few machines. just 4 is perfect for running a handful of TE machines .Its not like GT. you dont need massive amounts of power, at least not until you get to reactors and such...im still working my way up the tech tree but right now, but this system is perfect for handling the incoming ores Im pulling from my mining runs and crafting the higher level things that need liquid redstone and ender, etc.