mystcraft - what could have been

GreenZombie

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Jul 29, 2019
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Apologies to @McJty - RFTools just doesn't cut it :p
Or didn't, but does now... (I really havn't had the time to tinker with the latest version - erk!)

First. RFTools dimensions. A implementation that in many ways is an improvement on Mystcraft, but still, I am not sure about using RF to power dimensions. It seems weird that a finite amout of RF can load an infinite sized dimension. I'd have preferred an Applied Energistics ish approach where a certain quantity of RF allows a certain quantity of chunks to exist, more RF for more chunks...

On to Mystcraft (and I hope the following is not taken as an attack on Mystcraft - as I stated in a different post, the mod XyCompWiz made and the mod I wanted to play turned out to be different things, and that's fair enough. I am merely using Mystcraft as a base to explain what I had hoped for as its direction for growth).

Mystcraft - for all that it allows the creation of dimensions - makes it difficult to get a desired dimension: multiple dimensions need to be created just for players to search for additional pages. And, even with pages, the age writing process is fraught with randomness making it likely that players wanting a specific age will require multiple attempts to get one.

This, if you are creating a myst / D'ni themed world, is true to the canon. But has numerous problems in practice:
* this is way too hardcore for most players - who really want an easy way to create a mining age, and a age with floating islands to build a fantasy castle.
* On servers, letting players create ages like this is fraught as each player will end up creating their own set of exploration ages, and then have multiple failed attempts. With no tools for server admins to audit how many ages had been created, and by whom, which ages had seen activity. And no way for players to delete ages they no longer needed.
* The uncompromising random nature of the age writing grammar meant that even admins could not expect to create a shared mining age for their server without undesirable negative effects.

What I might hope for in a mod that implements a dimension writing system:
* "Hard vs Easy" mode config. Defaulting to easy. In easy mode, the mod would allow ages to be created exactly as specified. So players (and server admins) can easily create exactly the age they want.
* An optional security model for servers where only Opped players can create descriptive books.
* The registration of its own terrain generators as world generators (so that, if the mod makes floating sky islands possible, then it should be possible to create an overworld using that generator).
* The use of registered world generators for dimensions. So - for example, a server could end up with dimensions spanning skyblock / floating fantasy islands, ATG, BoP as well as vanilla generators (including perhaps a superflat preset or two).
* The ability to restrict linking books to always go to a worlds spawn (Mystcraft trivializes long distance transport to the detriment of many other mods offerings) - or to a linking book previously placed at corresponding co-ordinates in the other dimension.
* The integration of structure generators along the lines of "Ruins", "Recurrent Complex" or even Formivores Generators to fill the generated worlds with more custom content than just the occasional Library.
* Server tools: At the very least a server sided log file that tracks which players created which ages. Last visited date for each age. Along with some kind of settable policy where players get a limited number of creation attempts and a limited number of dimensions - and a way to delete unwanted dimensions.
 
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Pyure

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* For what its worth, an RFTools dimension is always created exactly as requested. Its only random in areas you fail to explicitly identify
* The notion of RF/chunk is fascinating. I wonder, @McJty, is something like this even possible?
* More content (ruins, etc) isn't really a change, its just an "addition" so it doesn't really fit the theme of your thread
 

GreenZombie

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Jul 29, 2019
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* The notion of RF/chunk is fascinating. I wonder, @McJty, is something like this even possible?
I was thinking something like the world border - but for dimensions. I would also expect this (reasonably) to be a creation parameter not dynamic. Although, the idea of unloading chunks as the world powers down is hilarious...

* More content (ruins, etc) isn't really a change, its just an "addition" so it doesn't really fit the theme of your thread
How so? I mean, in the canon, the world of Myst, writing a descriptive book could link you just as easily to worlds with inhabitants, or the ruins left by inhabitants, as it could to uninhabited worlds. The only actualy failing of Mystcraft, as the mod @XyCompWiz wanted to deliver, would be the mammoth size of the task he had bitten off: In order to be a compelling hard-mode roleplay experience that mimicked feel of the books and games the ages needed ruins. artifacts. and the occasional inhabitant that ran away mysteriously.
 

McJty

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Apologies to @McJty - RFTools just doesn't cut it :p
Or didn't, but does now... (I really havn't had the time to tinker with the latest version - erk!)

First. RFTools dimensions. A implementation that in many ways is an improvement on Mystcraft, but still, I am not sure about using RF to power dimensions. It seems weird that a finite amout of RF can load an infinite sized dimension. I'd have preferred an Applied Energistics ish approach where a certain quantity of RF allows a certain quantity of chunks to exist, more RF for more chunks...
It is not a finite amount of RF. You have to keep giving RF to maintain it. If the dimension runs out you can't enter.

What I might hope for in a mod that implements a dimension writing system:
* "Hard vs Easy" mode config. Defaulting to easy. In easy mode, the mod would allow ages to be created exactly as specified. So players (and server admins) can easily create exactly the age they want.
* An optional security model for servers where only Opped players can create descriptive books.
* The registration of its own terrain generators as world generators (so that, if the mod makes floating sky islands possible, then it should be possible to create an overworld using that generator).
* The use of registered world generators for dimensions. So - for example, a server could end up with dimensions spanning skyblock / floating fantasy islands, ATG, BoP as well as vanilla generators (including perhaps a superflat preset or two).
* The ability to restrict linking books to always go to a worlds spawn (Mystcraft trivializes long distance transport to the detriment of many other mods offerings) - or to a linking book previously placed at corresponding co-ordinates in the other dimension.
* The integration of structure generators along the lines of "Ruins", "Recurrent Complex" or even Formivores Generators to fill the generated worlds with more custom content than just the occasional Library.
* Server tools: At the very least a server sided log file that tracks which players created which ages. Last visited date for each age. Along with some kind of settable policy where players get a limited number of creation attempts and a limited number of dimensions - and a way to delete unwanted dimensions.
RFTools has most of those:
  • It can be configured. You can make it harder (change dimension costs and so on) or easier
  • You can control how many dimensions can be made per player (dimensions are owned). You can also make sure that only players who have a certain special dimlet can make dimensions (a dimlet that cannot be created)
  • RFTools dimension building has (in the 1.7.10 version) support for Recurrent Complex structure generation. Not in 1.10 since that mod hasn't been ported yet
  • RFTools has lots of control over dimensions for admins. You can delete dimensions, find out who owns them, change their power attributes, even edit their specific dimlets and so on
 

McJty

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May 13, 2014
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* For what its worth, an RFTools dimension is always created exactly as requested. Its only random in areas you fail to explicitly identify
* The notion of RF/chunk is fascinating. I wonder, @McJty, is something like this even possible?
* More content (ruins, etc) isn't really a change, its just an "addition" so it doesn't really fit the theme of your thread
Dimensions by nature are infinite. It would be hard to control this per chunk really. Not impossible but a lot of annoying management
 

GreenZombie

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Jul 29, 2019
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It is not a finite amount of RF. You have to keep giving RF to maintain it. If the dimension runs out you can't enter.

RFTools has most of those:
  • It can be configured. You can make it harder (change dimension costs and so on) or easier
  • You can control how many dimensions can be made per player (dimensions are owned). You can also make sure that only players who have a certain special dimlet can make dimensions (a dimlet that cannot be created)
  • RFTools dimension building has (in the 1.7.10 version) support for Recurrent Complex structure generation. Not in 1.10 since that mod hasn't been ported yet
  • RFTools has lots of control over dimensions for admins. You can delete dimensions, find out who owns them, change their power attributes, even edit their specific dimlets and so on
I know it does. I was just being cheeky :p
Well, the admin stuff is new and shiny, so I'm just sad the server I was admin for shut down so I don't get to play with those toys. And the recurrent complex integration sounds awesome. Does integration mean that structures generate? Or that there are actually dimlets that drive the addition of certain structures?
I mean, for me the holy grail would be to be able to build - say - a close approximation of the "Crash Landing" world, with cities and roads.